N O T I C E - THIS IS A LONG POST. INSTEAD OF BITCHING ABOUT IT, JUST DON'T READ IT.
At the risk of behaving 'off topically', I'm going to share some thoughts. [ If @sguevar can get away with it, MAYBE I can, too. https://voat.co/v/theawakening/2721825 ... Sorry, though -- I don't mention the Bible.]
First things first... Hat tip to @Atko (Atif Colo) and @PuttItOut (Justin Chastain) for their primary roles in the inception of Voat back in 2014. I've not met Messrs. Colo or Chastain, but I applaud their efforts -- and their struggles. Considering recent events, though, it seems that the founders of Voat are fully willing to stand by while thousands of new users are relentlessly pummeled by a group of (less new) freedom loving native, veteran user, old goats. Still, I'll give the founders the benefit of the doubt -- the existing herd might have taken on an uncontrollable life of its own. And it could be that the Voat business model is disinclined to growth. If so, I respect that -- their call, not mine. If tens of thousands of new 'customers' showed up at my place of business, I'd figure out how to serve them...or tell them that I'd rather not. [Hmm...]
We have been told that "the website has been labeled as an alternative to Reddit with a focus on freedom of expression" [Wikipedia article cited below]. Yet when a sizable group of folks were dislodged a few days ago by Reddit and chose to give Voat a try, they were greeted by a resounding GTFO! That might be sound advice -- especially if the owners and investors at Voat don't want the business. <shrug> When the 'intruders' didn't heed the warnings, the old goats devoted their energies to incessant reminders that there was ALREADY a Voat subverse that addresses the topic espoused by the immigrants. Still the newcomers came. [Now the new group/subverse has almost 2,000 more members than the 'correct' group/subverse.]
I'll share just a couple of expressions of freedom found on this new subverse's pages...
(1)
Goathole 0 points (+0|-0) 7.4 hours ago
Are you talking about how we name the dirty fucking kikes or how we shame the shiftless disease filled and criminal element niggers?
Please, tell me what value they hold and why they shouldn't be wiped from the earth?
GAS THE JEWS.
(2)
SPIC NIGGER KIKE SPIC NIGGER KIKE SPIC NIGGER KIKE SPIC NIGGER KIKE SPIC NIGGER KIKE SPIC NIGGER KIKE (theawakening)
submitted 1.1 hours ago by theoldones
this is OUR website, niggers.
you're in our ball court.
you dont restrict what we say here.
...Certainly these persons have 'the right' to publish such expressions. But they are miles off topic and serve no useful purpose whatsoever (unless the posters have no life, or are afflicted by some sort of sadistic deviancy, OR the site owners encourage or condone this behavior). Actions like this DO NOT promote, preserve, or protect the constitutionally recognized right to speak freely. Reminds me of a question George Carlin posed: "If crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight?
It's pretty clear what is happening here. On the 'superficial side', a group of displaced hopeful patriots walked onto a playground that was being used by a crowd of mask-wearing, inconsiderate, delusional, power hungry players. It doesn't matter that NONE of the displaced ones brought with them ANY ill will. It doesn't matter that all the signs on the outside of the playground said "Come join us! ... Everyone is welcome here. ... Speak freely!" It doesn't matter that the delusion of the 'native' players led them to believe that they OWNED the playground that was built for them by others -- and had every right to abuse the newcomers. None of that matters. None of it. Not to the Deluded Ones.
It has been reported that the biggest driver of new visitors to Voat is Reddit; and @Atko has said that he wanted "to avoid the mistakes made by others, including the so-called 'front page of the Internet.'” [Marketwatch article] Maybe there is a list of 'acceptable mistakes' -- just different from Reddit-like unacceptable mistakes? I don't know, but it sure looks that way.
The days of the large scale echo chamber (a metaphorical description of a situation in which beliefs are amplified or reinforced by communication and repetition inside a closed system) are numbered. Not ever being a registered user of Reddit, I did register for Voat. Now I'm thinking that was a less than prudent choice on my part. The board owners of my favorite subverse have been down voted into oblivion and are receiving death threats. My own numbers are stuck for now, but will probably get blasted in reverse after I hit submit for this submission. So the resistance is working. Hip hip hooray! Isn't freedom great?
NOTE: I NEVER asked for any of the 429 comment upvotes -- of which I have been credited only 30. I am severely opposed to voat farming. Today my SCP went from 54 all the way down to 1 -- never mind the +741 submission upvotes and have 276+ comments on my submissions...or that my submissions have been viewed 8,445 times. Nothing to see here.
CONCLUSION
These 'anti-immigrant' people are enemies, not friends. [Yes. I'm quite sure that the loud ones represent a small percentage of the Voat community. But the silence of senior admins on what is happening is deafening.] This place is hostile, not welcoming. The claim by the delusional warriors that they are proponents of Liberty is false. It's been fun. I'll see you all 'over there' ... ANONymously. Now we know...MORE THAN WE KNOW.
Best wishes to all, even especially the Guardians of The Playground.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voat
http://time.com/3964833/reddit-voat/
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/voat-creator-speaks-on-reddit-refugees-plans-for-future-2015-07-10
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MrPim ago
More than one of your users stated that they were going to run Voat now by numbers alone. You then disregarded the existing GA sub and isolated yourself here. There is no purpose in that other than your mods need to retain their power. Your mods believe they are God's here. And Voat is very anti-powermod. You did not come in peace. And yeah, that shit pisses off the locals. Note the migration of MDE whih started ~24hrs before you. There has been zero issues w their coming. They didn't act like asshats.
And lastly, your locked down sub hampers you from participating fully in the wider Voat.
4TheRepublic ago
"More than one of your users stated that they were going to run Voat now by numbers alone. You then disregarded the existing GA sub and isolated yourself here....You did not come in peace."
Who is "you"?
ALL BANS HAVE BEEN LIFTED ... but the ghetto is still under siege while the chemotherapy is fighting the cancer. I get it.
MrPim ago
You, the r/GA population as a whole. You came here like a horde of Somali rapefuges. Completely disregarding the local populace and our existing culture. Insisting that we were going to change to accommodate you. And just like every migration before you, you have lost. Don't feel bad, that part was inevitable.
4TheRepublic ago
Oh. The ol' gross generalization rears its head again. Mix that in with a few regurgitated and faulty analogies, and we have us another non-argument. Thanks.
I was not a member of the r/GA population. And I'm not isolated anywhere...except for my little place out in the country. I have not completely -- or even partially -- disregarded the so-called local populace or existing populace. Nor have I insisted that you ought to change to accommodate me. As for losing migrations, I've lost nothing. And -- I suspect this might disappoint you -- I don't feel bad.
VoatsNewfag ago
https://voat.co/v/whatever/2715711/13804119/10#13804119
One of the /v/theawakening mods (DropGun), when told that mods are not gods here, replied with "You're about to find out how wrong you are."
Yet you call us "power hungry players" in your OP?
Since we're only using words we only have as much power over you and anyone else as they're willing to let us have. You can ignore words (assuming no doxxing or serious threats that go beyond banter), you can't ignore a ban and continue as if nothing happened.
The bans were lifted but people will not forget this easily. I find it odd that you choose to side against people who merely used words and pretend that the mods with a god complex are just fine just because they unlifted bans (which would had never happened if it weren't for the shitstorm caused by the rest of voat!!!).
4TheRepublic ago
Thanks for the information. It's more than I had before you took the time to share.
I'm not siding against any people ... not here anyway. Just speaking from my own experience. And now I'm getting more experience. I like how that works. And I strongly concur with this: "[You] only have as much power over [me] and anyone else as they're willing to let us have. You can ignore words." If a few renegade v/theawakening mods, carelessly banning users, despite the UNWRITTEN rule that banning is NOT ALLOWED, gives another group of users the right to rain down on thousands of unsuspecting new users, then so be it. You've helped to teach me a valuable lesson.
I don't doubt that it's possible for some v/theawakening mods to have power hunger. Are you telling me that NONE of the shitposter counter-movement has any power hunger? When you write, "Yet you call us 'power hungry players..." Who is 'us'? Do you speak for the entire native population of Voat? I could be missing something, but I don't see how that's even possible. See? That's one of the reasons that I use MY words, and I support others doing the same. [I do not pretend to speak for others.]
I am now certain that there is a strong faction within the 'old goat' community that is contentedly cutting off its collective nose to spite its face...and willing to cut off other people's noses too (metaphorically speaking, of course). I respect their right to do so -- just as I respect the rights of @Atko and @PuttItOut to turn away several thousands of likely contributors to the growth of the Voat platform. It's no sweat off my balls.
Enjoy the echo chamber.
VoatsNewfag ago
On Voat I had conversations with all kinds of people about all kinds of things. Fascism, atheism, islam, christianity, communism, libertarianism, music, women, men, circumcision, abortion, spanking children ...
Of course I do not agree with voats consensus on all these wide array of topics, but I always had civil discussions even when I was in the minority with my worldview. Very much unlike any other social media website out there.
We scare off those with a faint of heart. If you want to dismiss Voat as an echo chamber because of that, that's fine. It's your loss.
Are they in a position of power over you? The mods in this subverse we're conversing in could ban either of us - they are in a position of power, even if they decide not to make use of it.
Besides, I'm confident that this form of argument is a fallacy.
The people you talked about. You didn't just talk about individual people, you talked about a group of people. Those that are here because they value free speech, including practiced free speech and not just freedom as a theoretical value. If there's one topic voat really is mostly an echo chamber for, it's freedom of expression.
This comes of as very passive aggressive to me.
You seem to miss something important - we don't need a justification to insult people for it to be a "right" on voat. It is our right, period. We also insult newcomers who haven't done anything and whose mods haven't done anything either. But if they don't ban or act all offended there is no longer a reason to continue doing so. If someone has been insulted and decided to stay regardless and has not been bothered by it, there is no longer a point in insulting them.
Insults don't mean anything here. For one everyone here is pseudonymous (You seem very pedantic about generalizations. I don't have to point out that this was a generalization and that there are - as for everything - a few exceptions, right?). You will never find the kind of insults on voat you'll find on facebook. And you will rarely find the "poisoning the well" rhetoric to dismiss arguments that is common on reddit. This might sound asinine to you, but because of that I find voat more civil than any other social media.
Enjoy other social media were people care more about their appearance than about content.
4TheRepublic ago
@VoatsNewfag
facebook? reddit? insults on facebook/reddit? i wouldn't know...i don't mess with that shit.
your self-deprecation doesn't suit you. asinine? i didn't think so.
enjoy 'other social media'? i don't participate in other social media. maybe i'll find some kind of quasi-social media experience here on Voat -- maybe not.
pedantic? about generalization? of course my perspective on generalization/generalizing can (does?) seem pedantic to you -- that's on you. did you hear the one about the freedom of speech pedant and the generalization pedant that walked into a bar? the FOS pedant jumped up on the bar and commenced to tell everyone to fuck off and go back to where they came from. the G pedant smiled … and enjoyed his beer.
project much?
In any event... Be well.
VoatsNewfag ago
You never been on facebook or reddit? Not even years ago? Where have you been 4 days prior? Why have you come here while reddit shut down greatawakenening when you haven't been on reddit? How do you know about a private community?
Most people are pedantic about generalizations nowadays. They always expect you to point out that exceptions exist or that you do not talk about everyone within a group etc.
I like to use the following example to make a point:
If I say that women are shorter than men, do I have to point out that dwarf sized men exist and women who are higher than the average? I think not, everyone knows that. And Everyone knows that women are roughly one head smaller than men on average because it's we observe it every day. Yet make any other statement about men and women and people suddenly seem to no longer understand the concept of generalizations.
Similarly when I make statements about voat, or QAnons, or any other group I shouldn't have to point out that I'm obviously not talking about everyone within that group. Exceptions do not disprove generalizations.
I can be passive agressive as well!
But that doesn't mean that your "oh I learned a valuable lesson about how unjustly banning voaters gives them the right to insult those haven't banned themselves but just condoned their mods playing god".
And I find it kind of ironic given that you felt the need to write the real names of our admins (I wonder why you felt compelled to do that!) and constantly repeated within this thread how they condone bad behavior. Kind of makes you appear as a slimy hypocrite to me.
4TheRepublic ago
you can't be THAT stupid. i'm going to give you a pass on that one.
then. there's this...
fuck you. eat shit and die. die a fucking painful miserable death you worthless piece of shit bleeding cunt.
i'm not here for "most people"...i'm here for me.
i didn't FEEL COMPELLED to do anything. i cited publicly available articles. you're a fucking hypocrite mother fucker if you think you can lambast me for entirely acceptable practices. fuck you. it's not like the names of @Atko and @PutItOout -- or Atif Colo and Justin Chastain -- are some kind of underworld secret. Fuck YOU. are you the fucking guardian of the fucking universe? i think not.
you might imagine yourself to be some kind of intellectual, but you're a lowdown piece of shit. you've encountered TRUTH, and you can't handle it. go fuck yourself.
Yes. Years ago I was on FB. Committed FB suicide some time back. Years ago. Fuck YOU. Reddit? NO. I HAVE NEVER BEEN A REGISTERED USER OF REDDIT. Fuck YOU again. i'm not ashamed of me; are you ashamed of you?
Why did I come here? I came here because i THOUGHT this might some rational refuge of freedom and truth. HOLY SHIT, was I mistaken. Fuck YOU again.
And fuck your goofy ass examples. You suck...and so do your examples.
You don't know me. You don't want to know me. That's fine. Fuck YOU again.
That just means you're a (((lazy ass ))), ((( hypocritical ))) ((( mother fucker ))). What ((( you ))) "shouldn't have to point out" is immaterial.
i've behaved in a civil manner and been lambasted for it. i'm sure i'll be lambasted for behaving in a less than civil manner -- in the world of free speech and all. that's the way it goes around here. your twisted horde of miserable fucks (yes...misery loves company) are quite adept at creating double bind (i.e. damned if you do damned if you don't) conundrums. Fuck YOU again.
i don't give a shit what you find ironic. if you're the best the gang has, they/it need/s to dig a little deeper. hell, for all i know @VoatsNewfag IS @PuttItOut or @Atko. who the fuck knows?
I don't know about 'bad behavior', but it is becoming clearer to me that they condone irrational behavior that is contraindicated to any sane, capitalistic business model. (much like Nike's recent fucked up bullshit).
if you think i'm a hypocrite, then you're not listening (or reading...or what-the-fuck-ever). maybe you are unable to listen (or read...or what-the-fuck-ever)...maybe you're unwilling to listen (or read...or what-the-fuck-ever). either way, i don't give a shit. Fuck YOU again.
SO...take your hypocritical, isolationist bullshit back to the house and play with it til you get what you imagined you'd get, you delusional fuck.
you and others of your kind (i'll avoid using 'ilk' here because it's probably not in your vocabulary) have shown me that there is a fault in the whole WWG1WGA idea. because where i go, few of you will go. your pussy asses won't be worth a sliver of shit when the electricity goes out and your little disney world goes dark. Fuck YOU one final time.
and for the piece of shit, dickweed, fucked up cunt who blasted me for this very sincere wish of mine...i'll repeat it (even though you electricity-dependent cyber fuckwads won't understand)...with a tip of my figurative hat:
May the road rise up to meet you. May the wind always be at your back. May the sun shine warm upon your face, and rains fall soft upon your fields.
VoatsNewfag ago
That's quite impressive.
No, it's not not. But that doesn't matter, because it still takes some effort to find their real names and wright them down!
I asked you why you felt the need to write their real names down. I suspect to make it more personal to them, to give it more weight when you say that they condone certain behaviors of other users.
If that's the case that would be really manipulative. And you giving me non-answers (it's not a secret!!!) really makes me believe that this was indeed your intention. To be manipulative and bully our admins while pretending to be all polite and nice.
I prefer your side that screams vulgarities over this kind of "nice guy" manipulative bullying.
4TheRepublic ago
no. that's not what you asked me. you asked my why i felt COMPELLED. fuck you.
you suspect? and? you are a lightweight. keep digging.
i expressed my thoughts. is that not allowed? keep digging.
i'm not screaming vulgarities. [i don't "believe" in vulgarity...that's another discussion] but IRL i am multi-lingual. so i know that sometimes i have to spread my wings a bit.
so....if you prefer "eat shit and die" to "be well" ... i'm happy to oblige.
VoatsNewfag ago
Digging for what? I'm not interested in digging QAnon if that's what you mean. Or are you part of something bigger and I should keep digging you? No clue what you mean.
It sure is. Real names are not thoughts, though. It's still allowed to post the real names of our admins, you aren't the first one doing so.
And you avoid that question and give non-answers.