Until the employment of citizens is at 100% there should be no h-1b employees. I am very qualified for many tech jobs, but with some it is impossible to get even an interview; that should not be the case.
Look around at any place that lives off of government grants, and look at the make-up of who gets that money. In stem related fields i would say that it is well under 50% citizens, and under 20% white citizens. Just walk around in a research facility at UCLA or any major research university; the faculty are not american, the researchers are not american, BUT it is all funded by america.
Well...no. But I understand the sentiment. What if you needed 100 people to work in your specific industry but there's only 80 in the US. There's no way to meet 100% employment and cover all business needs.
And before you rage reply about how the system is abused to hire foreigners for cheap, I know. But 100% employment has little to do with what visas were intended for.
so what is the reason there were only 80? could 20 more be trained? are there 20 american students studying a related field that you could convince to learn the required material in exchange for jobs when they were done?
We both know the answers to these questions; if the h-1bs dried up the companies would go back to how they were and they would have plenty of employees.
Well no, you can't just train anyone to do anything. And you can't always wait for graduates either. Not to mention that they may not even want to work for your company. Your view of the world doesn't exist.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but if there is work so specific to a small number of highly specialized people, then the company needing this work is too niche to rely on organically finding qualified employees. This almost guarantees that they would need to hire close but not fully qualified people and bring them up to skill. What could possibly be so urgent and demanding that there isn't time to train people to the required level. Your scenario sounds unrealistic and any company demanding such things is probably greatly exaggerating their need or their technology. Companies need to remember that people are not a resource to be bought when they need them. If there are only 80 qualified American citizens to do the job, then instead of simply looking abroad for foreign workers, they need to adjust their ambitions and make sure they properly entice their would-be domestic candidates before complaining that they can't get the workers they need. It's a market. Employees must be invested in not simply bought like cattle or widgets. This mindset is what is wrong with corporate interests these days. We don't need a visa program to fix this. We need a return to our senses and sensibilities. Let the other nations keep their qualified people and have them turn their shithole country into a competitor so everyone gets a better opportunity. Their nations are not employee farms that grow talent for American corporate money.
i didn't say "train anyone to do anything". For example, could a chemistry PhD do the work of a chemical engineer with a little bit of on the job training? Could a math PhD who spent 8 years coding for their work transition to programming for a company?
There is only one job that i know of that is so specialized that very few people can do it, and few can be trained, and that is the splicing and insulating by hand of high voltage cables. There are seriously like a handful of guys (i can actually say guys here because it is 100%) in the world who can do it, and they are flown all over for it. It would be a great use for an H-1B
If you name a common H-1B job i bet i could name an underemployed group of people who could be trained for it quickly.
in the Seattle area, Amazon and Microsoft are basically entirely Indian companies, as a white male the best you can hope for is being hired as a contractor, and even then its trendy to discriminate against whites here in favor of 150% diversity.
this liberal insanity needs to be put to death for ever, we don't need any more Indians we need Americans working or being trained up in "streetshitting" or whatever it is that Indians do better then Americans.
sure am glad i got my white privileged in a high rent area, aren't you ;)
it wouldn't be so bad getting fucked like this if you still made good money, but it seems like the more competent you are at something the less they want to pay you. then when you finally DO find a job in addition to jewing you down in pay they find the most brain dead asshat they can and put them in-charge of you... FUCK H1B, FUCK MSP's!!!
Every position should demonstrate that there are no American applicants before an H-1B Visa is approved. Position must be advertised annually. Degrees must be from Accredited US Universities before they are considered for job requirements. H-1B visa abuse is so obvious, it would be better to cancel the whole program.
in a perfect world if you are able to work, and you choose not to, then you die. There will be people "between work", or people who are supported by family, but they would be under pressure to work.
I will also point out that in a perfect world it would cost very little to exist; taxes and other required bills make sure that it costs enough that you need to have a good income in order to not be a burden on society.
I really wouldn't call that a perfect world. You could probably say its a more even playing field but a part of society should not have to live as a wage slave just so you can say its a perfect world.
"but my taxes" your income tax isn't that big of a deal because most taxes are completely unavoidable and shake down the young, old, rich, poor and everyone in between in some way, shape, or form. Just because you're on welfare doesn't mean you get out paying sales or property taxes does it?
And then there is the process of deciding who is able to work and who is not, I think you'd find that some people will go to the greatest lengths possible to prove they can not work because at the end of the day they do not want to or simply can not find work that is capable of supporting themselves.
I really wouldn't call that a perfect world. You could probably say its a more even playing field but a part of society should not have to live as a wage slave just so you can say its a perfect world.
The amount of work could be very little, like "i will teach your children algebra in exchange for food and a place to sleep", or "i will do 1/100th of the work on this farm that can feed 100 people". That is why the "price to exist" is so important, as this goes through the roof so does your ability to work less, even if you live modestly.
"but my taxes" your income tax isn't that big of a deal because most taxes are completely unavoidable and shake down the young, old, rich, poor and everyone in between in some way, shape, or form. Just because you're on welfare doesn't mean you get out paying sales or property taxes does it?
if you are on welfare you (typically) get more money from the state than you pay to the state. So if you are taxed on something you will be "reimbursed" for that. Taxes are a big deal because they make the baseline for existing much higher than it would be otherwise. If i wanted to just live in a house in los angeles, that was fully paid off, i would still need to come up with about $1k per month because of property taxes and required utilities. This means that i couldn't just do small jobs for food, i would need to actually have at the very least an actual part time job.
And then there is the process of deciding who is able to work and who is not, I think you'd find that some people will go to the greatest lengths possible to prove they can not work because at the end of the day they do not want to or simply can not find work that is capable of supporting themselves.
This is why i pointed out that you would be supported by your family and pressured into working. you might be able to fool the government, but if your brother is feeding you then you had better be pretty bad off if you aren't helping. People on welfare aren't out picking up trash (the opposite is true in my experience), they aren't planting trees, volunteering at the retirement home, working at churches, etc. we shouldn't stand for that shit. even if you are in a wheelchair you can help with a lot of things, and it gives meaning to your life.
people on welfare should live worse than people not on welfare, no one should want to be on welfare. One of my solutions, and a similar one for healthcare, is to have a base livable diet that any citizen could go collect from the center. It would typically be government cheese, flour, rice, beans, and eggs. If you want something else then go get a job.
It's almost like H1-Bs are supposed to be for positions that there isn't ample workers for. Skilled jobs that have more demand than supply. It's almost like most of the unemployed aren't suitable for those jobs.
yes, that is the talking point, but I am saying that it is not true. If americans don't even get interviewed for the jobs that ends up being filled by an H-1B, then there is something wrong going on. In tax-funded research especially, tax dollars are being used to give experience to non-americans, and then when industry needs people in that field there is a lack of experienced workers... it wasn't that long ago that companies courted american students while they were still in college and the students had contracts that they would work for the companies before the graduated. what changed? H-1B.
Yup, when you don't want to train employees anyone and want everyone to be replaceable parts then you run into the problem of no one qualified wanting to accept your conditions. So you solve that by introducing H-1B.
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peacegnome ago
Until the employment of citizens is at 100% there should be no h-1b employees. I am very qualified for many tech jobs, but with some it is impossible to get even an interview; that should not be the case.
Look around at any place that lives off of government grants, and look at the make-up of who gets that money. In stem related fields i would say that it is well under 50% citizens, and under 20% white citizens. Just walk around in a research facility at UCLA or any major research university; the faculty are not american, the researchers are not american, BUT it is all funded by america.
xberb ago
I doubt you're very qualified - or you're looking in a saturated market. Look elsewhere.
The tech field is booming, just because you're lazy doesn't mean you can't get a job somewhere
piratse ago
Well...no. But I understand the sentiment. What if you needed 100 people to work in your specific industry but there's only 80 in the US. There's no way to meet 100% employment and cover all business needs.
And before you rage reply about how the system is abused to hire foreigners for cheap, I know. But 100% employment has little to do with what visas were intended for.
peacegnome ago
so what is the reason there were only 80? could 20 more be trained? are there 20 american students studying a related field that you could convince to learn the required material in exchange for jobs when they were done?
We both know the answers to these questions; if the h-1bs dried up the companies would go back to how they were and they would have plenty of employees.
piratse ago
Well no, you can't just train anyone to do anything. And you can't always wait for graduates either. Not to mention that they may not even want to work for your company. Your view of the world doesn't exist.
Morbo ago
I'm not saying you're wrong, but if there is work so specific to a small number of highly specialized people, then the company needing this work is too niche to rely on organically finding qualified employees. This almost guarantees that they would need to hire close but not fully qualified people and bring them up to skill. What could possibly be so urgent and demanding that there isn't time to train people to the required level. Your scenario sounds unrealistic and any company demanding such things is probably greatly exaggerating their need or their technology. Companies need to remember that people are not a resource to be bought when they need them. If there are only 80 qualified American citizens to do the job, then instead of simply looking abroad for foreign workers, they need to adjust their ambitions and make sure they properly entice their would-be domestic candidates before complaining that they can't get the workers they need. It's a market. Employees must be invested in not simply bought like cattle or widgets. This mindset is what is wrong with corporate interests these days. We don't need a visa program to fix this. We need a return to our senses and sensibilities. Let the other nations keep their qualified people and have them turn their shithole country into a competitor so everyone gets a better opportunity. Their nations are not employee farms that grow talent for American corporate money.
xberb ago
A logical answer on Voat, weird.
Usually it's just 'muh jerbs, damn injans'
The fact is there are people willing to work harder for less money than you, sucks to suck, but that's the free market.
peacegnome ago
i didn't say "train anyone to do anything". For example, could a chemistry PhD do the work of a chemical engineer with a little bit of on the job training? Could a math PhD who spent 8 years coding for their work transition to programming for a company?
There is only one job that i know of that is so specialized that very few people can do it, and few can be trained, and that is the splicing and insulating by hand of high voltage cables. There are seriously like a handful of guys (i can actually say guys here because it is 100%) in the world who can do it, and they are flown all over for it. It would be a great use for an H-1B
If you name a common H-1B job i bet i could name an underemployed group of people who could be trained for it quickly.
M346 ago
Yeah that's true, why do some jobs "need" a degree.
samuraichococat ago
in the Seattle area, Amazon and Microsoft are basically entirely Indian companies, as a white male the best you can hope for is being hired as a contractor, and even then its trendy to discriminate against whites here in favor of 150% diversity. this liberal insanity needs to be put to death for ever, we don't need any more Indians we need Americans working or being trained up in "streetshitting" or whatever it is that Indians do better then Americans.
rhy ago
How dare you sir? As an American, I am quite well versed in Street shitting.
neuroelectronic ago
I was able to get in to Amazon by taking a 50% pay cut and undercutting the Indians by taking on the responsibilities of two positions.
samuraichococat ago
sure am glad i got my white privileged in a high rent area, aren't you ;)
it wouldn't be so bad getting fucked like this if you still made good money, but it seems like the more competent you are at something the less they want to pay you. then when you finally DO find a job in addition to jewing you down in pay they find the most brain dead asshat they can and put them in-charge of you... FUCK H1B, FUCK MSP's!!!
neuroelectronic ago
Sure, I had to move every 12 months and my rent was 1/3 of my paycheck but now I have Amazon on my resume.
Cheap_Knockoff ago
IIRC, 100% employment is never possible due to the "natural rate of unemployment."
So, in other words, there's never a need for such programs anyway.
burns29 ago
Every position should demonstrate that there are no American applicants before an H-1B Visa is approved. Position must be advertised annually. Degrees must be from Accredited US Universities before they are considered for job requirements. H-1B visa abuse is so obvious, it would be better to cancel the whole program.
peacegnome ago
in a perfect world if you are able to work, and you choose not to, then you die. There will be people "between work", or people who are supported by family, but they would be under pressure to work.
I will also point out that in a perfect world it would cost very little to exist; taxes and other required bills make sure that it costs enough that you need to have a good income in order to not be a burden on society.
AmaleksHairyAss ago
I don't want ever live in your perfect world.
peacegnome ago
the amount of work wouldn't need to be much, maybe work for one year in your entire life if you wanted to.
Gamio ago
I really wouldn't call that a perfect world. You could probably say its a more even playing field but a part of society should not have to live as a wage slave just so you can say its a perfect world.
"but my taxes" your income tax isn't that big of a deal because most taxes are completely unavoidable and shake down the young, old, rich, poor and everyone in between in some way, shape, or form. Just because you're on welfare doesn't mean you get out paying sales or property taxes does it?
And then there is the process of deciding who is able to work and who is not, I think you'd find that some people will go to the greatest lengths possible to prove they can not work because at the end of the day they do not want to or simply can not find work that is capable of supporting themselves.
peacegnome ago
The amount of work could be very little, like "i will teach your children algebra in exchange for food and a place to sleep", or "i will do 1/100th of the work on this farm that can feed 100 people". That is why the "price to exist" is so important, as this goes through the roof so does your ability to work less, even if you live modestly.
if you are on welfare you (typically) get more money from the state than you pay to the state. So if you are taxed on something you will be "reimbursed" for that. Taxes are a big deal because they make the baseline for existing much higher than it would be otherwise. If i wanted to just live in a house in los angeles, that was fully paid off, i would still need to come up with about $1k per month because of property taxes and required utilities. This means that i couldn't just do small jobs for food, i would need to actually have at the very least an actual part time job.
This is why i pointed out that you would be supported by your family and pressured into working. you might be able to fool the government, but if your brother is feeding you then you had better be pretty bad off if you aren't helping. People on welfare aren't out picking up trash (the opposite is true in my experience), they aren't planting trees, volunteering at the retirement home, working at churches, etc. we shouldn't stand for that shit. even if you are in a wheelchair you can help with a lot of things, and it gives meaning to your life.
people on welfare should live worse than people not on welfare, no one should want to be on welfare. One of my solutions, and a similar one for healthcare, is to have a base livable diet that any citizen could go collect from the center. It would typically be government cheese, flour, rice, beans, and eggs. If you want something else then go get a job.
speedisavirus ago
It's almost like H1-Bs are supposed to be for positions that there isn't ample workers for. Skilled jobs that have more demand than supply. It's almost like most of the unemployed aren't suitable for those jobs.
RoBatten ago
The program has been abused to only provide lower-cost indentured employees to corporations who's shareholders benefit from it.
speedisavirus ago
Not only. Some yes. Some no.
peacegnome ago
yes, that is the talking point, but I am saying that it is not true. If americans don't even get interviewed for the jobs that ends up being filled by an H-1B, then there is something wrong going on. In tax-funded research especially, tax dollars are being used to give experience to non-americans, and then when industry needs people in that field there is a lack of experienced workers... it wasn't that long ago that companies courted american students while they were still in college and the students had contracts that they would work for the companies before the graduated. what changed? H-1B.
xberb ago
It is true though
lanre ago
Yup, when you don't want to train employees anyone and want everyone to be replaceable parts then you run into the problem of no one qualified wanting to accept your conditions. So you solve that by introducing H-1B.