First of all, Here is the link to yesterday's post, which only shows up in TOP https://voat.co/v/pizzagatewhatever/2030995
This post is an update from events of yesterday, and started as a response to Vindicator in PM, I felt that as long as I'd written it all out might as well just post it for everyone for transparency.
Vindicator was speculating on how the CCP 100 point change had been made. My response starts with that -
@Vindicator - The CCP change was done specifically by KevDude (he and I have discussed this in the past) at the time when he was given the forum to do a "makeover" on - that is when things were cleaned up, sidebar put in, rules voted on. It was about two months in? The community can answer that. More on that below. I don't believe you were active at that moment, but soon after. It might have been after that clean up and consolidation when you were tapped.
In the interests of transparency, I'd like to ask Vindicator regarding your history here-
1.) Why and by whom were you asked to mod? Was it because you knew someone at voat in real life? Or were an active commenter on another subverse and thus known? There is the perception you were brought in as a decision from top down, made a few comments, then were made a mod. Now is your chance to address that perception.
2.) I'd also like to ask you if when you made the sticky regarding the protests, you did that entirely of your own volition, or were you directed or asked to take that position on behalf of voat? I am not asking for the reasons why it would be done for voat, we already have seen those arguments. I am specifically asking if you were asked to take that position or directed to do so. Also, do you have any regrets regarding how that impacted the first protesters and the second protesters? I'd like to clear the air now about this since I came out with a positive message of support for you.
3.) In a PM to me, you said "@DarkMath and @2impendingdoom have been unbanned. Falcon did that on his own after a day or two time-out." However according to 2impendingdoom he is not. They just tried to comment. Could you address this?
Community Thread Results https://voat.co/v/pizzagatewhatever/2030995
FIRST - CCP rule change - To clear up any confusion I caused about what this would be, it would be a RETURN to a rule the subverse started with. 100 comment points are required before new accounts may MAKE SUBMISSIONS or DOWNVOAT. Since new accounts are created at voat without an email requirement, this subverse, called the most shilled place on the internet aside from 4chan, needs this fig leaf of protection.
Unlike the submission rules that at least were show-voted on, KevDude took away the 100 CCP points submission/downvoat requirement without telling anyone or a vote. It was probably just an admin thing in his view, so I am not saying it was done with intent to harm the subverse. However this was a top down decision that the community has wholeheartedly rejected. I asked him about it at another time (keep in mind EVERY TIME I have to deal with him, it ends up with him spewing a volley of racist violent rants at me) and through his insults he managed to convey that having that CCP requirement will keep the subverse off v/all which "hides" the subverse from the rest of voat. What this subverse gains from the 100 point rule far outweighs the negligible benefit of being visible on v/all. This is a must have change.
SECOND - @2impendingdoom The term “spam” must be officially defined and included as one of the posting rules so that we know what we’re being accused of when banned for it and ideally to avoid it in the first place. this is a reasonable request. Definitions form the basis of any logical argument. This is also a must have change.
THIRD - Ownership and Mods. Both VictorSteinerDavion who is long gone and made a public goodbye needs to be removed from ownership as well as KingKongWasWrong. Neither KevDude or Mil Falcon should be owners. This is also a must have change.
a) Vindicator has been suggested as owner and had a good amount of support for the community which wants to see a real change in this situation.
b) Millenial Falcon takes a lot of flak and I can't know what it is like to do the job he does. I can only report that many have called for him to step down. There are also some who support MF. This can be discussed. Personally, I don't think MF finds any joy at the PG subverse, and maybe he just needs a vacation Keep in mind that his name is on the sticky that is normally at the top of the subverse. If he ever goes, does his sticky go too? Or does that belong to the sub.
FOURTH - There have been a few good suggestions from our thread I'd like to highlight here -
a) permanent "How to Spot Shills" placed on sidebar and strong suggestion that newbs take note, plus permanent access to leaked psyop tactics document @The1stLantern. This seems like a no brainer but can be discussed.
b) A couple of people have suggested combining the pizzagate/pedogate subforums, to stop the time waste of determining the line between the two, and to stop losing cross referenced information relevant to both. Wouldn't this also cut down on mod duties, or at least consolidate it? This needs to be discussed by the community.
c) THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE NEW SUGGESTIONS - IT IS AN ANTI-SHILL MEASURE AND FOR THAT REASON ALONE I STRONGLY SUPPORT IT. A new subverse named PizzagateIntroductions will be made, in which new accounts must introduce themselves before they may comment on the main thread to start gaining their 100 points and submission/downvoat privileges. @GoodGodkirk The nature of what the intro is can be debated, but it may prevent some instant shilling.
d) Search Bar reinstated. This doesn't require any explanation.
e) A new rule against false flag baiting was suggested by @darkknight111. This could be discussed.
view the rest of the comments →
Vindicator ago
I know no one at Voat in real life (at least that I'm aware of :-) ). I was asked to be a Janitor by Millennial_Falcon, because my submissions followed the guidelines, I encouraged other posters in comments and tried to help them understand the submission rules, and because I asked shitposters for evidence. I was made a mod a month or six weeks later by Crensch -- I think at MF's request. The difference between a J and an M is M's can make or remove new J's, and we needed more hands on deck at the time. We were getting hentai spam attacks in the middle of the night. Prior to the migration from Reddit, I had been an infrequent Reddit user. I got more heavily interested when I realized a charity I had supported in the past might be associated with Pizzagate. I have been watching for concrete evidence confirming this ever since; if it appears, I will be redpilling a whole lot of that charity's doners whom I know well.
No. I was asked by wecanhelp about an ad he was putting at the top of the sidebar and as I looked into it I became very concerned about events being manipulated by the disinfo purveryors who had been attacking abortionburger and a number of other good users. This was at the height of the Antifa crap. It was my idea to write the sticky; I took too long -- because I was documenting my specific concerns -- and wecanhelp put something up. I then finished my sticky and posted it.
I don't regret doings so, and given the available information in the time window I had, would do the same under the same circumstances today. I DO support public awareness campaigning and the ability to discuss it, plan it and organize it on v/pizzagate -- and pushed for a rule change to that end. When the O's, MF and wecanhelp made it clear rule changes were not happening, I made a sticky explaining how such posts would be allowed under the existing rules.
One of the most important parts of this job for me is keeping an eye on what the nefarious manipulators are up to and exposing it. I did this when someone was posting as Becki Percy here and on Twitter to discredit her. When abortionburger was witchhunted, intimidated, doxed and threatened. When DarkMath, OrwellKnew, VieBleu, IsThisGameofThrones and a number others were being targeted by ArmySeer with his fake shill-bans. And when Psychanaut became the target of witchhunting and intimidation. It was the silencing of the investigation and media collusion to suppress it that convinced me how real this is (on top of the Podesta emails) and I'll be damned if I will allow that shit here if I can prevent it.
For the record -- I don't think "Voat is compromised" or "mods are shills". I've spent a fair amount of time reading comments, watching how things operate, how people respond in various situations, and I think that is a shill narrative. I have never seen real evidence presented to support it. I don't always agree with how things are administered. I also don't agree with negativity and concern-trolling that effectively discourage folks. That is a huge red flag to me that a person does not have the well-being of this sub or the people we want to help at heart. People who build this place up -- with solid contributions, encouragement for others, creative publicity, willingness to call out fallacious bullshit or whatever -- get my respect.
I thought he had been. I unbanned him this evening when I saw he was still banned.
VieBleu ago
Thanks a lot Vindicator for taking the hot seat and answering questions. Appreciated. I think having an owner the subverse has gotten to know and who supports transparency would be a valuable step forward for v/pizzagate.
Vindicator ago
VictorSteinerDavion supports transparency and reads posts here fairly regularly. It's not his major interest, though. As I said to you before, I think it would be better to have an accountable, engaged O who has their finger on the pulse of the subverse. I am on the fence about whether I want to take that responsibility on, though. That's whole new level of expectations (and blame) I'm not sure I want. The place can be a shitshow at times! :-)
VieBleu ago
VSD is reasonably transparent, at least you can have a conversation with him (I did) but KKWW has no stake here. Understandable if you are not sure and need to think about it. At least you know it could be an option now on this side of the tracks.