allow Activism Event posts in /pizzagate (pizzagatemods)
submitted 7 minutes ago by sound_of_silence
Thanks in advance for taking the time to read and consider this proposal.
i'm suggesting activism events, such as this (currently active in the main sub) https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1590814 be allowed to stay in the main sub, rather than deleted (as was this one yesterday) https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1584867..
i submit they are not in violation of rule4 (the reason given by @wecanhelp for the deletion) as they are directly related to furthering the investigation through awareness, rather than side-bar discussions about the investigation.
as with any good cause, time and timing are of the essence.. the entire world should be made aware and that's going to take more activism than what has been done thus far... to be practical and successful, we need on-going, coordinated, and well-timed activism in order to sufficiently send a message to the world to investigate pizzagate.
i'm gravely disappointed the ultimate pizzagate demonstration was left free range in the main sub all night with moderator participation, and then abruptly deleted first thing in the morning by a different moderator who has a 1-month old account...
i'm sure all of us who mod on other sites can personally relate to the struggle to keep the content relevant, and can appreciate that it's a learning process rather than out-of-the-box perfection; but, activism events are crucial to creating public awareness, and the events for this cause are only going to grow...
Can we please start here, and dialogue to a resolution?
Thanks in advance for your help, * SoS
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wecanhelp ago
You're not really starting this off on the right foot, are you? You will not achieve anything with passive aggressive ad hominem allegations. If you want to be constructive, maybe take a look at my track record as a moderator instead of the age of my account (which, by the way, you have no way knowing if it's an alt). I habitually try being transparent and objective about the mod team's activity. It costs me extra effort, but I think it's the right thing to do, and I will do it now as well.
First of all, we as mods are here to enforce rules, with as little subjective judgment as possible. According to the current rules that are in effect right now, your submission was rightfully deleted, and mods who wouldn't remove it were the ones making a mistake. It is our responsibility toward the community of the /v/pizzagate sub (notice how I'm not saying "the entire Pizzagate community") to enforce the rules that have been vetted and accepted by the same community.
Now, do I personally agree that raising awareness is critical, and we absolutely need to reach a critical mass in order to achieve anything? Yes, I do. But I, as a member of the community, don't get to overrule my responsibilities as a member of the mod team. You've very rightly submitted this attempt at a rule change to be discussed outside of the main, investigative sub, and I would like to address it.
My main concern with allowing activism-related submissions on /v/pizzagate is the exact same as with any content that is currently not allowed: it is a loophole that can be exploited to dilute the sub, and bury actual important information. And not only that, but in this very special case, we're talking about events that our users will physically show up for, potentially risking their safety. Personally, the only way I see activism events being legally posted going forward is by them being "sourced". What do I mean by that?
I would like to see activism events fully planned out, date specified, location specified, details organized, participant safety considered, with some sort of proof that this all has been accounted for and the event is indeed happening (what this proof could be is up for discussion, but it is critically important in order to protect our users). But – and here's where the magic happens – the fact of an organized event like that is already a sourced submission that is directly related to Pizzagate, and as such, cannot and will not be removed even under current submission rules (unless other aspects of the post are rule-violating).
On the other hand, preliminary discussions about possible activism events are, again, a hotbed for hijacking strategies and possibly even honeypots that would endanger our users, and in that light I see no possibility of allowing this kind of content on the main sub in the future. Activists should be activists, and be ready to make a plan in advance and take responsibility for it, just the way we all expect researchers to be researchers, and go out on a limb often risking their own lives to bring some new information bits home. I don't think this is a farfetched expectation at all.
As for the actual organizing of these events: I think that should take place, much like research, behind closed doors. Fire up an encrypted Riot channel, or at least use our public one to get started with a draft. Set up a small working group to work out the details. Remember, what you share with us, you share with them, too. When you're confident about the plan, submit it with proof to /v/pizzagate.
So, accordingly, I think the actual subject of this discussion should be:
What constitutes satisfactory proof for an actual activism event?
(Bear in mind that I'm one mod, and my opinion doesn't necessarily represent that of the entire mod team. I encourage other mods and members of the community to weigh in. @Crensch @Millennial_Falcon @Phobos_Mothership @gopluckyourself @Vindicator)
wecanhelp ago
@justforthissubverse (Sorry, mate, nothing against you, only 5 mentions in one comment, and you were the last on the mod list.)
justforthissubverse ago
no worries. im pretty busy with my day job and just check this occasionally to help out as i can. i don't have much "power" :)
wecanhelp ago
Good to know, thanks!
wecanhelp ago
@VictorSteinerDavion @rktyp @Kwijibo @l4l1lul3l0 @SpikyAube
Kwijibo ago
Will do.