i think both these ideas are good and helpful -

One solution is to personally invite users who you think might be interested based on their comment history in other posts, to posts in the activism sub. It's a little extra effort, but doesn't draw as much nefarious attention. It also happens to be the same way events are organized in real life in the flesh. ;-)

If the planned activist event cannot be fully organized without discussing it with the entire /v/pizzagate community, that's not a reason to change the rules of /v/pizzagate, that's a reason to go with a different activism strategy.

Alternatively, activists can start a /v/PizzagateActivism sub where everyone actually interested in planning and organizing these events can subscribe and discuss activism strategies with the rest of the activist community. Keep in mind that not every subscriber of /v/pizzagate is also an activist, in fact, I would estimate that only an underwhelming minority is. As a result, posts that are meant to discuss the planning of any activist event are simply of no interest to the majority of the community that subscribed for the sourced, investigative content in the first place.

Now, when it is an actual event, that's interesting to the entire investigative community as it is guaranteed to be relevant to the big picture of the investigation. And consequently, we will allow submissions presenting a fully planned, upcoming event on the main sub.

But it makes no sense to allow these to be posted on the main sub in an immature state. You're making the assumption that all 10k+ people are interested in that, but in reality, if they were, there would already be a 10k+ community on a separate sub or board somewhere on the internet dedicated to this.

Edit: As a precaution, I have registered the subverse /v/PizzagateActivism. The moment a group of community members deemed reliable are ready to take over, I will hand over the sub and resign as its Owner.

I agree that raising awareness is really important, and I think I even flagged your post as important the other day! But having read @wecanhelp 's reasoning, I can see the point being made, particularly about safety, and the danger of arranging something in full view of everyone, even the bad guys. I admit I hadn't thought of that.

I think it's really difficult because this subverse is the main/only one most people come to, it kind of ends up needing to fulfil several roles, such as planning, awareness raising, presenting information in a coherent and consolidated way so that newcomers can easily figure out what's going on, and then the main reason for it, which is for investigators to share leads and new information and evidence etc.

Could we maybe have, and highlight, a separate place for PG activism that we link to in the sidebar? I know it's kind of getting crowded with tangential PG subs that aren't well-visited, but perhaps it could be highlighted in a 'So you've seen all this horrific evidence, what can you do about it?' or a 'Now take action!' way - and allow people to add links to discussions on there at the bottom of other within-the-rules posts, or in comments?

Ultimately, I think we all have to accept that it is impossible to eliminate risk entirely with this, and that the people doing this are willing to accept a small amount of risk in order to help these kids and take down these monsters. I definitely think we should find a good solution to this problem, because we're at the stage where this really needs to get out into public consciousness.

So, this is the question I think: How do we utilise the visibility of v/pizzagate in order to facilitate organised action to spread awareness, without compromising its integrity, its purpose, or the safety of its subscribers?

and then abruptly deleted first thing in the morning by a different moderator who has a 1-month old account...

You're not really starting this off on the right foot, are you? You will not achieve anything with passive aggressive ad hominem allegations. If you want to be constructive, maybe take a look at my track record as a moderator instead of the age of my account (which, by the way, you have no way knowing if it's an alt). I habitually try being transparent and objective about the mod team's activity. It costs me extra effort, but I think it's the right thing to do, and I will do it now as well.

First of all, we as mods are here to enforce rules, with as little subjective judgment as possible. According to the current rules that are in effect right now, your submission was rightfully deleted, and mods who wouldn't remove it were the ones making a mistake. It is our responsibility toward the community of the /v/pizzagate sub (notice how I'm not saying "the entire Pizzagate community") to enforce the rules that have been vetted and accepted by the same community.

Now, do I personally agree that raising awareness is critical, and we absolutely need to reach a critical mass in order to achieve anything? Yes, I do. But I, as a member of the community, don't get to overrule my responsibilities as a member of the mod team. You've very rightly submitted this attempt at a rule change to be discussed outside of the main, investigative sub, and I would like to address it.

My main concern with allowing activism-related submissions on /v/pizzagate is the exact same as with any content that is currently not allowed: it is a loophole that can be exploited to dilute the sub, and bury actual important information. And not only that, but in this very special case, we're talking about events that our users will physically show up for, potentially risking their safety. Personally, the only way I see activism events being legally posted going forward is by them being "sourced". What do I mean by that?

I would like to see activism events fully planned out, date specified, location specified, details organized, participant safety considered, with some sort of proof that this all has been accounted for and the event is indeed happening (what this proof could be is up for discussion, but it is critically important in order to protect our users). But – and here's where the magic happens – the fact of an organized event like that is already a sourced submission that is directly related to Pizzagate, and as such, cannot and will not be removed even under current submission rules (unless other aspects of the post are rule-violating).

On the other hand, preliminary discussions about possible activism events are, again, a hotbed for hijacking strategies and possibly even honeypots that would endanger our users, and in that light I see no possibility of allowing this kind of content on the main sub in the future. Activists should be activists, and be ready to make a plan in advance and take responsibility for it, just the way we all expect researchers to be researchers, and go out on a limb often risking their own lives to bring some new information bits home. I don't think this is a farfetched expectation at all.

As for the actual organizing of these events: I think that should take place, much like research, behind closed doors. Fire up an encrypted Riot channel, or at least use our public one to get started with a draft. Set up a small working group to work out the details. Remember, what you share with us, you share with them, too. When you're confident about the plan, submit it with proof to /v/pizzagate.

So, accordingly, I think the actual subject of this discussion should be:

What constitutes satisfactory proof for an actual activism event?

(Bear in mind that I'm one mod, and my opinion doesn't necessarily represent that of the entire mod team. I encourage other mods and members of the community to weigh in. @Crensch @Millennial_Falcon @Phobos_Mothership @gopluckyourself @Vindicator)

[–] sound_of_silence 0 points (+0|-0) 1 second ago

additional example of relevant post not specifically about evidence or leads, but rather about how to raise public awareness https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1590242 this was not deleted, and is still active in /pizzagate

is there a specific reason https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1584867 was deleted when it is clearly in line with other existing posts with the same theme? thanks.

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