I hear you. There's a precedent to this that you don't necessarily see, though. @anonOpenPress tends to be really aggressive with pushing his ideas that are usually of way less substance than he makes them out to be, and often lack an understanding of grander issues. There's only so much patience that I can find in myself for that when I keep getting pinged for every little thing that crosses his mind and am expected to address his near-sighted logical fallacies. There's a time and a place for cynicism, and this is pretty much it.
I've been asked to offer my opinion on this, so here it is. There's a reason we only endorse the subverses in the Pizzagate Subverse Network. They're owned by people we trust. I'm also strongly against fragmenting the community. I think this is a very bad idea, and in no way can I support it.
This is an excellent point -- the trust issue. When I first started modding, numerous users were losing their minds because ArmySeer was writing articles about them being shills, publishing them in his subverse v/PizzagateShills, and then banning them from it even though they'd never been there. To a person, each of his targets thought he was a mod here on v/pizzagate and the related subs, because they'd received a ban from him.
The main thing that calmed them down was my being able to tell them he is not a mod here and nothing he does in his own, totally unrelated subverse, has any influence whatsoever on the opinion of them in v/pizzagate.
Having a link in the sidebar to a kazzillion pizzagate subs that included his would certainly have blurred those lines.
Thanks for this opinion. If it's up to having one sub listed there or not should not break up the idea itself. We could just drop that one, or trust to the users and include also opposite views. I don't find pizzagateshills as a useful sub myself, as we simply can't prevent shilling on any sub they decide to enter. So happy to drop that, happy to have that, as long as the issue itself gets solved - the current set of supported subverses is not too good for investigators or for new users.
Voat recently added a new feature called "Sets" that allows people to add whatever subs suit them to their Front Set.
You can also subscribe to a few other default Sets: https://voat.co/discover/set/top. At some point, you will be able to create your own custom Sets, but this has not yet been enabled.
We will soon have a sticky on this new feature and how to use it. At the minimum, it will allow NEW or HOT posts in whatever subs you add to your Front Set to appear in your front page, which will mean posts in v/pizzagatemods, memes and any pizzagate sub they want to add will show up on their front page. I am still researching what all is possible with it. But folks can learn more, here.
I'm also against fragmenting, but I'm pro for organizing. In practice, the best outcome would be reached if the important posts were submitted both to the network you mention (in the relevant sub), and to one of the subs outside (picking one relevant sub from those).
Having the independent subs linked would not cause fragmenting, but would support organizing.
the important posts were submitted both to the network you mention (in the relevant sub), and to one of the subs outside (picking one relevant sub from those)
Pretty much the definition of fragmenting. Try organizing that fragmented discussion afterwards. Boy, if only we had a way from the get-go to organize all the discussion about a single content in one place...
Having all posts in one sub, and a copy of post on a dedicated sub is organizing at its best, noting the features Voat offers all together. You should check the mod sub on posts requesting organizing, and come up with another better idea to drop this.
Saw it now, thanks! I'd say good idea. Only suggest you go over the descriptions of the other subverses again. For example, this caught my eye: /v/pizzagatefree - users to decide what is talked about, not mods... I know this is their own description, but it will put our main subverse in a wrong light, since the community decided on the rules, not the mods ;-) I am sure you will find the right words.
No...its just that mods don't always see pings -- DMs are better because they go to your personal inbox and stay highlighted until you mark them as read.
Pings ("Submission Mentions") and Comment Replies are red when you first click the tab, but as soon as you've seen the page and refresh the screen, it marks all unread Comments or mentions as read. if you reply to the top one and don't use the back button to return to your notifications screen (if you click your inbox icon again to get back), nothing will have the red box. If you didn't happen to see there were three additional pings below the one you responded to, you might miss them completely. Especially if you're on a small screen and would have only seen the multiple ping messages by scrolling. I've done it myself 👎
wecanhelp ago
I hear you. There's a precedent to this that you don't necessarily see, though. @anonOpenPress tends to be really aggressive with pushing his ideas that are usually of way less substance than he makes them out to be, and often lack an understanding of grander issues. There's only so much patience that I can find in myself for that when I keep getting pinged for every little thing that crosses his mind and am expected to address his near-sighted logical fallacies. There's a time and a place for cynicism, and this is pretty much it.
wecanhelp ago
I've been asked to offer my opinion on this, so here it is. There's a reason we only endorse the subverses in the Pizzagate Subverse Network. They're owned by people we trust. I'm also strongly against fragmenting the community. I think this is a very bad idea, and in no way can I support it.
Vindicator ago
This is an excellent point -- the trust issue. When I first started modding, numerous users were losing their minds because ArmySeer was writing articles about them being shills, publishing them in his subverse v/PizzagateShills, and then banning them from it even though they'd never been there. To a person, each of his targets thought he was a mod here on v/pizzagate and the related subs, because they'd received a ban from him.
The main thing that calmed them down was my being able to tell them he is not a mod here and nothing he does in his own, totally unrelated subverse, has any influence whatsoever on the opinion of them in v/pizzagate.
Having a link in the sidebar to a kazzillion pizzagate subs that included his would certainly have blurred those lines.
anonOpenPress ago
Thanks for this opinion. If it's up to having one sub listed there or not should not break up the idea itself. We could just drop that one, or trust to the users and include also opposite views. I don't find pizzagateshills as a useful sub myself, as we simply can't prevent shilling on any sub they decide to enter. So happy to drop that, happy to have that, as long as the issue itself gets solved - the current set of supported subverses is not too good for investigators or for new users.
Vindicator ago
Voat recently added a new feature called "Sets" that allows people to add whatever subs suit them to their Front Set.
You can also subscribe to a few other default Sets: https://voat.co/discover/set/top. At some point, you will be able to create your own custom Sets, but this has not yet been enabled.
We will soon have a sticky on this new feature and how to use it. At the minimum, it will allow NEW or HOT posts in whatever subs you add to your Front Set to appear in your front page, which will mean posts in v/pizzagatemods, memes and any pizzagate sub they want to add will show up on their front page. I am still researching what all is possible with it. But folks can learn more, here.
anonOpenPress ago
I'm also against fragmenting, but I'm pro for organizing. In practice, the best outcome would be reached if the important posts were submitted both to the network you mention (in the relevant sub), and to one of the subs outside (picking one relevant sub from those).
Having the independent subs linked would not cause fragmenting, but would support organizing.
wecanhelp ago
Pretty much the definition of fragmenting. Try organizing that fragmented discussion afterwards. Boy, if only we had a way from the get-go to organize all the discussion about a single content in one place...
anonOpenPress ago
Having all posts in one sub, and a copy of post on a dedicated sub is organizing at its best, noting the features Voat offers all together. You should check the mod sub on posts requesting organizing, and come up with another better idea to drop this.
wecanhelp ago
Whether or not I have a better idea is not relevant as to whether your idea is shit. I've said all I wanted about this. Cheers.
sensitive ago
Saw it now, thanks! I'd say good idea. Only suggest you go over the descriptions of the other subverses again. For example, this caught my eye: /v/pizzagatefree - users to decide what is talked about, not mods... I know this is their own description, but it will put our main subverse in a wrong light, since the community decided on the rules, not the mods ;-) I am sure you will find the right words.
anonOpenPress ago
edited now with the beginning of their description only, thanks for noting
Vindicator ago
Sounds reasonable
anonOpenPress ago
Thanks. I wonder the non-response from any other mods, is there something odd in this simple suggestion?
Vindicator ago
No...its just that mods don't always see pings -- DMs are better because they go to your personal inbox and stay highlighted until you mark them as read.
Pings ("Submission Mentions") and Comment Replies are red when you first click the tab, but as soon as you've seen the page and refresh the screen, it marks all unread Comments or mentions as read. if you reply to the top one and don't use the back button to return to your notifications screen (if you click your inbox icon again to get back), nothing will have the red box. If you didn't happen to see there were three additional pings below the one you responded to, you might miss them completely. Especially if you're on a small screen and would have only seen the multiple ping messages by scrolling. I've done it myself 👎
I'm going to DM them right now.
anonOpenPress ago
@Vindicator @sensitive @nnfx @heygeorge
anonOpenPress ago
@kingkongwaswrong @Crensch @VictorSteinerDavion @Millennial_Falcon @wecanhelp