After being discussed for 30+ years, the international medical community has repeatedly allowed babies to be born and kept alive so their organs can be harvested. Now, parents are even encouraged to carry their children to term so they can be harvested.
(1988) Should Anencephalic Infants Be Used as Organ Donors?
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/82/2/257
"The frontiers of organ transplantation and its scientific and ethical-legal aspects have advanced to the arena of pediatrics. The technical advances bring with them the problem of organ procurement, with estimates that the discrepancy between supply and demand for pediatric organs will be even more pronounced than in adults. In partial response to this anticipated shortage, it has been proposed that newborns with anencephaly be used as organ donors."
Each year, approximately 1,800 babies are born in the United States with anencephaly.4 Available data suggest that 25% to 45% are live born and at least 95% die within the first week.5 Apart from their fatal neurologic malformation, their organs are presumed suitable for transplantation.4 Moreover, prenatal α-fetoprotein and ultrasonographic screening can identify almost all anencephalics with a high level of certainty.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2722973/
Anencephaly is a central nervous system abnormality that is characterized by congenital absence of the forebrain, skull and scalp. Some rudimentary forebrain tissue may exist and a functioning brainstem is usually present. Most anencephalic infants die within days or weeks without life-supporting interventions (2,7). One infant, ‘Baby K’, lived for 2.5 years as a result of aggressive life support.
Use of anencephalic infant organs for transplantation gained widespread publicity in the late 1980s after the Loma Linda Medical Centre reported a successful newborn heart transplant using a Canadian anencephalic infant, ‘Baby Gabriel’, as the organ donor.
In 1989, Loma Linda reported a study (6) of 12 anencephalic infants who were supported with intensive care measures for one week to facilitate declaration of brain death. Successful organ donation did not occur from any of the infants. The study authors concluded that anencephalic infants could not be used as organ donors without legal and medical changes to regulate brain death and organ donation.
https://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/24/us/donating-organs-of-anencephalic-babies-is-backed.html
American Medical Association states [in 1995] it should be permissible to take organs from anencephalic babies while they are alive...[because] after death, the organs have deteriorated and cannot be used.
http://everydaybioethics.org/resource/anencephalic-babies-are-now-“wanted”—-their-organs
In early March [2016], at the annual meeting of the British Transplantation Society, some National Health Service (NHS) transplant surgeons suggested a plan to alleviate the shortage: harvest organs from newborns who have no prospect of survival.[3] One group in particular drew their interest: children with anencephaly, a disorder that can be identified at about the twelfth week of pregnancy. Anencephalic children are missing a major part of their brain and skull, and are said to have “no chance of survival,” although such babies have been reported to live as long as one,[4] two, or even three years.[5] The surgeons further reasoned that since these babies could never experience consciousness, they would not suffer.
The proposal draws an ethical line by stating that, at least initially, no woman carrying an anencephalic baby would be approached until she had made a decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy. If she continued, she would be “supported” in unspecified ways for the full nine months. At birth, the baby’s body would be supported by a ventilator—contrary to current NHS protocols, which prohibit life-sustaining technology for anencephalic newborns. The baby’s organs would be harvested once he was declared dead, but while his heartbeat and breathing were being maintained artificially, and before he met the legal and medical criteria.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-32425666
A newborn baby, who lived for less than two hours, became Britain's youngest-ever organ donor last year. Doctors at the University Hospital of Wales, Cardiff, carried out the pioneering surgery three minutes after Teddy Houlston died on April 22. His kidneys were then used to save an adult's life in Leeds.
https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/inspirational-stories/a41870/annie-ahern-anencephaly-infant-loss/
(2015 the same thing was done in Oklahom)
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna51436
(2012 in ohio)
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/mother-uncovers-lasting-impact-of-sons-organ-donation/
(2016 in washington)
view the rest of the comments →
Vindicator ago
@Nomochomo, this is missing a couple of key pieces of information. First, where is the source that supports this statement?
Second, you say this is related to PG because "the biomedical industry is legally abusing and harvesting the organs of living children" yet the supporting link you provide for the AMA statement on this is decades old and also refutes the claim, stating:
You're missing any information at all about the current position of the AMA or what the current legal situation is, and your three last links of actual tissue donations all emphasize how difficult and rare it was for parents to attempt to donate their children's organs.
Pizzagate as defined for this sub is an organized attempt by a corrupt group of wealthy, globalist powermongers who use the abuse of kids to keep their chokehold on power. You've demonstrated no connection between that and parents who want their terminally ill kids' lives to help other terminally ill kids. It's certainly likely that biomed profiteers would try to take advantage of such parents, but that is speculative. This thread needs to be posted in v/pizzagatewhatever.
However, I'll give this the 24 Hour Grace flair in case you have more evidence that actually establishes a connection to PG.
SearchVoatBot ago
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NOMOCHOMO ago
5_ You've demonstrated no connection between [Elite] and parents who want their terminally ill kids' lives to help other terminally ill kids. It's certainly likely that biomed profiteers would try to take advantage of such parents, but that is speculative.
A. The BBC article clearly states that organs are not going to just "terminally ill kids". They are also going to adults.
A newborn baby, who lived for less than two hours, became Britain's youngest-ever organ donor last year. Doctors at the University Hospital of Wales, Cardiff, carried out the pioneering surgery three minutes after Teddy Houlston died on April 22. His kidneys were then used to save an ADULT'S life in Leeds....Teddy's kidneys - which were unaffected by the rare brain disease he had - will be able to grow inside another living body, making them suitable for donation to an adult, as well as a small baby. Teddy lived for 100 minutes after he was born. After he died, doctors would have moved quickly to perform the rare and intricate operation to remove his kidneys and use them to save another life. His case puts the focus back on neo-natal organ donation as a way of increasing the number of organ donors in the future.
B. The other articles clearly state that the ORGANS harvested went to Biomedical Profiteers. This isn't speculative. It's happening already.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna51436
https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/inspirational-stories/a41870/annie-ahern-anencephaly-infant-loss/
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/mother-uncovers-lasting-impact-of-sons-organ-donation/
NOMOCHOMO ago
4_ Pizzagate as defined for this sub is an organized attempt by a corrupt group of wealthy, globalist powermongers who use the abuse of kids to keep their chokehold on power.
Hillary Clinton is very tied to the AMA
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelmillenson/2016/07/30/when-the-american-medical-association-cheered-hillary/
American Medical Association has donated to Hillary Clinton.
http://docquery.fec.gov/pres/2016/M9/C00575795/A_EMPLOYER_C00575795.html
AMA is the 2nd largest lobbying group in the US
https://web.archive.org/web/20160105151443/https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2012/03/22/our-corrupt-politics-its-not-all-money/
So an organization which is trying to change the definition of "brain-death" to allow for babies to be harvested is buying politicians including Hillary Clinton.
Vindicator ago
That could be a legit focus for a submission. But that was NOT the focus of this submission.
Also, you are swimming upstream with the "definition of brain death" claim. You will have to explain exactly what the definition is now, how they are trying to change it, and who exactly is pushing for it. No generalities. If it's just a few people who are members of the AMA, no dice. The kids you are focusing on in this thread are literally born without most of the brain. In practical terms, many people using common sense will see them as born "brain dead" whatever the legal definition, and see allowing their parents to donate their organs to save the lives of other kids and even adults as the opposite of "abuse."
NOMOCHOMO ago
The focus of the post was the result of that deregulation. It now encompasses the aspects you've requested.
Not true. Both the public and parts of the medical community pushed back because it's literally redefining life & consciousness so we can feed the organ donor and biomedical industries need for Neonatal organs, tissues, and blood. So they temporarily caved, and now they are again pushing...
It's pushing abortion outside of the womb, to infanticide once the child is born, and it violates the Hippocratic Oath of "do no harm" to the patient.
NOMOCHOMO ago
3_ "three last links of actual tissue donations all emphasize how difficult and rare it was for parents to attempt to donate their children's organs"
Yet the medical associations have been talking about it since the 80's. It's rare & difficult compared to conventional organ donations, but it is rapidly increasing in prevalence. These Mainstream articles are Propogandizing the practice and don't mention the extensive 30+ year medical legacy of the practice. Also they all mention that the parents are now "spreading awareness" or "education" to increase the practice, and that a few of these parents are involved in the medical industry themselves.
NOMOCHOMO ago
Not quite, it clarifies a few sentences down
This article was published in 1995 by the American Medical Association. Since then, no US court has ruled against an anencephalic child's organs being harvested. (although surprisingly Canada has). And like i posted, multiple anencephalic kids have been used as organ donors in the US.
The AMA is the largest association of physicians in the US. The AMA also publishes a list of Physician Specialty Codes which are the standard method in the U.S. for identifying physician and practice specialties. Doctors use these "ethical guidelines" to cover their ass. Similarly, as the largest medical body in the US, AMA statements inform Judges and Legislators.
http://everydaybioethics.org/resource/anencephalic-babies-are-now-“wanted”—-their-organs
The American Medical Association (AMA) Council on Ethical and Judicial Affairs dealt with this problem by recommending suspension of the “dead donor rule” if the parents consented and various safeguards were put in place. In sharp contrast, the policies of the Canadian Paediatric Society (1990, reaffirmed in 2005) and of the American Academy of Pediatrics (1992) stated that anencephalic infants were not appropriate organ donors, and held firm to the prevailing legal and medical criteria for brain death.[6] The AMA changed course, and its current policy now also affirms the “dead donor rule,” but it does allow mechanical support to keep the organs viable until death is declared.
Now that sounds good right? The AMA backtracked and says the baby has to be dead. But how do they define death?
https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/anencephalic-newborns-organ-donors
Thus, the AMA created an exclusive category for Anencephalics so they can more easily & quickly declare "brain-death". Yet these infants are kept on life-support through this declared "brain death" (like Terry Schiavo) so that the organs don't fail. Basically, the body is alive, and the brain is maintaining organ function, but the infant is still declared brain-dead. During this living "death" the organs are harvested. They have to keep the child's body alive, and harvest quickly, otherwise, the organs fail.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2722973/
Vindicator ago
Except, that does not appear to be the case. Here is the paragraph from the link you cited summarizing AMA policy:
That footnote links to a Florida Supreme Court ruling that found an anencephalic newborn who still had brainstem function could not legally be declared dead and donate organs. It says:
The AMA policy summary article you linked to concludes similarly:
According to these links, the AMA does not currently allow harvesting of organs from any donor prior to brain stem death, precisely because proposals from some members advocating the idea over the years were deemed too dangerous to medical ethics.
After carefully perusing the massive dump of links you have added, I have to conclude that yes, there is an element in the AMA that is pushing for child organ harvesting. But the evidence you've presented shows the medical community overall has told those people no. Your title claim that "Anencephalic Newborns are kept alive while their Organs are Harvested" is therefore factually inaccurate, per Rule 2. The kids must have loss of brain stem function (brain death).
One reason the community has repeatedly affirmed the current submission rules is to prevent attempts to cover up accurate exposure of how and why the global elite abuse kids with click-baity fake news claims that discredit accurate research with a morass of provably "wacked conspiracy claims." We can't allow inaccurate stuff.
You've definitely turned up evidence that there are members of the medical establishment that would like to harvest anencephalic infant organs and even redefine "brain death" in order to do so. Unfortunately, you haven't done so in an accurate manner we can leave up on the board. I would recommend you choose the most salient, accurate links supporting that and rewrite this in a less click-baity manner. Don't try to tell people what to think -- present the facts and let people do their own thinking.
@think- @EricKaliberhall @Crensch
NOMOCHOMO ago
Again. This Ruling is from 1992. You complained that my initial article from 95 "wasn't current" yet you cite a state ruling that is 3 years older. How is this ruling "current"?
The 1992 ruling changed the definition of death to "brain-death" which is still PERSISTENTLY UNRESOLVED according to the AMA in 2004
https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/brain-death-once-well-settled-and-persistently-unresolved/2004-08
Anencephalics have detectable brainstem reflexes, and a neurological drive to breathe. Yet they are declared "brain-dead" and their organs are harvested.
You also have repeatedly ignored the examples of the NHS in the UK. And this link which proves EMPIRICISM
http://everydaybioethics.org/resource/anencephalic-babies-are-now-“wanted”—-their-organs
Vindicator ago
What are you playing at? You yourself stated the 1992 ruling was the current AMA position, as did the link you posted.
Bullshit, Nomo. That link is about a proposal, not current NHS protocols. Notice the key words "would be" and "contrary to current NHS protocols" in your own quote!
Yet you are trying to claim these babies "are kept alive while their Organs are Harvested" as if that was current, established policy. Your entire post is misleading, and based on this latest comment of yours, this is likely a complex attempt to force moderators into a position to remove a post on a legitimate, possibly relevant topic of concern by deliberately making a submission that violates the rules, burying relevant supporting links, characterizing links as showing one thing when they actually show the opposite, and then trying to cite those links as evidence mods are being unfair in the hopes users will be too lazy to spend the hours you forced mods to waste vetting the post.
I am archiving this entire comment stream for the record:
NOMOCHOMO ago
Archive Away. It only reflects poorly on your moderation.
You still haven't responded to this link @Vindicator: https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/brain-death-once-well-settled-and-persistently-unresolved/2004-08
Which I posted here:
2.5_ (why the AMA maintains brain death) https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2854317/15063473
You are sacrificing devotion to the truth too @Vindicator
NOMOCHOMO ago
A.
You are citing a 1992 FLORIDA STATE COURT RULING saying anencephalics can't be used for organ donations because they are breathing and their heart is beating. IT EXPLICITLY REJECTS BRAIN DEATH as being a valid justification for organ harvesting. NO RULING HAS EVER REAFFIRMED THIS. AND IT ONLY APPLIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA under "Florida Common Law"
How hard is that to understand? The 92 Florida ruling used the cardio-pulmonary standard of death. Now the current AMA NATIONAL GUIDELINES use "brain-death", instead of heart-death
I am citing a 1992 AMA decision that has been consistently REAFFIRMED NATIONALLY, which confirms "BRAIN DEATH" as a valid standard. EVEN WHILE THE BABY IS BREATHING AND THEIR HEART IS BEATING.
They say "determination of death" which includes the loosely defined "brain-death". The 1989 decision required proof of "neurological devastation". The 1992 decision relaxes the standard to "death" which is a lower standard and doesn't require complete neurological devastation. The doctor can simply declare "brain-death"
B.
It's not "Bullshit" @Vindicator, YOU IGNORE my explanation of how this "proposal" has already been implemented,
From my answer to your 24 hour flair: (https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2854317/15054487)
Though yes, it is "contrary to current NHS protocols" it's still being done under a "proposal".
It's technically illegal in the USA too under the ADA. BUT THAT HASN'T STOPPED DOCTORS BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN ADDRESSED IN US COURTS since 1992. And it was only addressed in one STATE COURT in 92
Vindicator ago
Nope. Read it again:
Notice the "and"? It explicitly confirms brain death as valid when heart death has occurred.
Where did you cite a case where a child who still had brain function was cut open and their organs removed, resulting in their death, Nomo? You are claiming kids are being parted out while they are still alive. You have to back that up -- and not in a way that is buried under six tons of stuff that doesn't actually show that happened.
NOMOCHOMO ago
"To summarize: We hold that Florida common law recognizes the cardiopulmonary definition of death as stated above; and Florida statutes create a "whole-brain death" exception applicable whenever cardiopulmonary function is being maintained artificially. There are no other legal standards for determining death under present Florida law.
Because no Florida statute applies to the present case, the determination of death in this instance must be judged against the common law cardiopulmonary standard. The evidence shows that T.A.C.P.'s heart was beating and she was breathing at the times in question. Accordingly, she was not dead under Florida law, and no donation of her organs would have been legal."
"whole brain death" needs to include the "brain stem". Even if the baby is on life-support. And current tests (as I've already stated) are incapable of determining if the brain stem is still functioning.
The standard has been relaxed to allow a doctor to declare "brain-death" without ever proving it.
Vindicator ago
@think- @Crensch @kevdude -- Heads up. Nomo is claiming his post was unfairly removed by me. See above.
NOMOCHOMO ago
Upvoated. Perhaps the only accurate statement you've made in this post.
NOMOCHOMO ago
Did you read this: (under 2.5?)
https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/brain-death-once-well-settled-and-persistently-unresolved/2004-08
If brain-death is intentionally unresolved and undefinable, it allows for a doctor to declare it at his own whim, without any consistency
If it's happened multiple times in the US & the UK, since Florida rejected it in 1992, how is my title not empirical?
Vindicator ago
Indeed. And again, I note this is one guy's opinion, it is discussing proposed changes, and concludes redefining brain death to allow greater leeway in organ harvesting is unlikely to happen:
NOMOCHOMO ago
You are lying. He says the exact opposite.
"WE COULD REEXAMINE ETHICAL REQUIREMENTS" ... THIS IS UNLIKELY
He Isn't discussing proposed changes. This is his personal opinion which runs counter to:
"THE CURRENT [AMA] APPROACH which IGNORE[s} ALL OF THESE PROBLEMS AND INCONSISTENCIES [because] OUR PRIMARY STRATEGY FOR ORGAN TRANSPLANTATION RELIES HEAVILY UPON THE DIAGNOSIS OF DEATH BY NEUROLOGICAL CRITERIA"
get it?
the ENTERPRISE relies on PERSISTENTLY UNRESOLVED neurological criteria.
Vindicator ago
@NomoChomo, I forgot to add that in the future, since you seem to have trouble at times making submissions that include links that truly support your claims, or making more conditional/accurate/less speculative claims, you should probably submit first to v/pizzagatewhatever, and get feedback. This thread, or a link to it, can be reposted as is to v/pizzagatewhatever. Mods are not required to continue trying to teach a user the submission requirements over and over and over again.
NOMOCHOMO ago
Respectfully, no thank you.
This sub is for pizzagate investigation purposes. I'm not going to self-censor or delegate my posts to pgwhatever oblivion. More eyes are on this forum and deleted posts are at least still accessible, even if what you deem "speculative" posts last only 24 hours.
"You've definitely turned up evidence that there are members of the medical establishment that would like to harvest anencephalic infant organs and even redefine "brain death" in order to do so."
No, not "Members of the Medical Establishment". The largest and oldest organization of Doctors...The American Medical Association which supports and is supported by the CLINTONS. Only outside organizations have criticized their rulings, and forced any pushback.
Nothing I've posted is Clickbaity. My title is a factual statement. You're choosing to accept the SPURIOUS definition of "brain death" promoted by the AMA & NHS to increase organ donation for the Biomedical Research Industry.
NOMOCHOMO ago
"http://everydaybioethics.org/resource/anencephalic-babies-are-now-“wanted”—-their-organs"
Fetal Harvest: Anencephalic Babies Are Now “Wanted”—For Their Organs
The term "proposal" is a weasel word, as it is an active policy being implemented.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nhs-plan-harvest-organs-babies-7503903
"A committee has been set up by NHS Blood and Transplant, tasked with boosting organ donation from newborns and very young babies. A lead nurse has also been appointed to co-ordinate efforts to educate NHS staff about talking to parents about such a sensitive issue. Under the proposals, midwives and other NHS workers are to be educated about the possibility of using babies’ organs in transplants."
Gothamgirl ago
From experience an anecheplic child can never survive long after birth. A few days maybe a few months at max, so doctors normally give an option to terminate pregnancy. They're placed on life support from birth, as far as organ harvesting/donating, I was told not possible but that was in 1999.
NOMOCHOMO ago
They definitely can't survive. However, this practice is actually killing the children prematurely.
http://everydaybioethics.org/resource/anencephalic-babies-are-now-“wanted”—-their-organs