To move this to the realm of the hypothetical, when you say they are different men, you are jumping to a conclusion.
It's a conclusion that ignores several other possiblities. Remember this isn't an artist looking at a man. It's someone describing a man to an artist to draw. It's by no mean a perfect process.
Other possibilities for having two sketches that don't look like the same man.
Neither witness got a good look at the man.
They witnesses simply remembered the man differently
One of the witness was better at describing the man to the sketch artist by the other.
They saw this man at night once and described him to an artists....a long time later, correct? Is that the sequence? Because if so, it probably would be unusual for the sketches not to be accurate.
Without knowing more about the exact details of this, it would be very hard to say anything conclusive.
The police say it's one man as described by two witnesses. Any reason why that is not the truth?
Right, two witnesses, two absolutely different descriptions, and somehow the split of the two descriptions came out podesta bros. Not making an argument or anything here, just appreciating the WTFness regardless of the any reasons.
other bit of wierdness was the security firm run hired by the family was run by a conman. The conman was supposedly not directly involved in the efits, that was another investigator. However the conman was quite familiar with American lobbying firms. In fact, he was closely connected to Patton Boggs a competitor to the Podesta Group.
Well, I think you raise some valid points. I don't pretend to have answers to all of your questions and concerns.
I just think it is very strange for someone to mix up a box jaw with a thin jaw. I have done some portraits, and I know it changes the entire facial structure.
It is also strange that the two sketches happen to match the facial structures of the Podesta brothers. I think that is pretty remarkable. It is a very unlikely occurrence. Of course, this does not prove anything, but I am thinking probabilities here and probable cause.
I think it would take less than five minutes to search the database to see if either of the Podesta Brothers was outside the U.S. at the time in question. Based on the sketches, I think that the police have probable cause to do this basic search.
If it turns out that the Podestas were out of the country at the time in question, then I think it gives the police probable cause to determine what country they were in.
If it turns out that the Podestas were in Portugal at the time in question, then I think it really gives the police probable cause to investigate in much greater detail.
"The police say it's one man as described by two witnesses. Any reason why that is not the truth?" Because I do not trust the police. Most of them are Freemasons, and they will cover for fellow Occult members. Same with the police in other countries, especially England.
I just think it is very strange for someone to mix up a box jaw with a thin jaw. I have done some portraits, and I know it changes the entire facial structure.
This is kind only strange until you look at studies of eyewitness testimony and see some truly bad sketches that have been done.
It is also strange that the two sketches happen to match the facial structures of the Podesta brothers. I think that is pretty remarkable. It is a very unlikely occurrence. Of course, this does not prove anything, but I am thinking probabilities here and probable cause.
This is indeed odd.
I think it would take less than five minutes to search the database to see if either of the Podesta Brothers was outside the U.S. at the time in question. Based on the sketches, I think that the police have probable cause to do this basic search.
Really? Seriously, based on something done in another country? With no request from that police department. And that police department says it's one guy who is between 20-40 years old? Do you think the police a lying about it being one person?
Most of them are Freemasons, and they will cover for fellow Occult members.
The police will barge into someone's home based on less evidence. A classic example are the swatting incidences. The standard for probable cause is much lower than people expect. The e-fit was released by Scotland Yard, so it is not like it was done by someone sitting in their basement wearing a fedora. Besides, a quick look at the database to see if the Podesta brothers were out of the country would not inconvenience them at all. They would not even know it happened.
Yes, here we go. It is the same thing over and over again. There are noticeable patterns that should not be ignored.
What about the ears? This has been the main identification point of Stephen Paddock so I am presuming accuracy in ear lobe identification is second to none.
I am not really sure, to be honest with you. It just strikes me that the person in one sketch clearly has a box jaw, and the other one does not. The Podesta brothers just happen to have those exact same features. I think that a competent portrait artist would not confuse a box jaw with a thin jaw. It changes the whole facial structure.
There is a program for free called GIMP (I hate the name but it is quite good) which is like a mediocre quality photoshop - you could layer the images and alter the transparency
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pby1000 ago
Those are different men. The facial structure is too different, especially the jaw.
Are_we_sure ago
To move this to the realm of the hypothetical, when you say they are different men, you are jumping to a conclusion.
It's a conclusion that ignores several other possiblities. Remember this isn't an artist looking at a man. It's someone describing a man to an artist to draw. It's by no mean a perfect process.
Other possibilities for having two sketches that don't look like the same man.
Neither witness got a good look at the man.
They witnesses simply remembered the man differently
One of the witness was better at describing the man to the sketch artist by the other.
They saw this man at night once and described him to an artists....a long time later, correct? Is that the sequence? Because if so, it probably would be unusual for the sketches not to be accurate.
Without knowing more about the exact details of this, it would be very hard to say anything conclusive.
The police say it's one man as described by two witnesses. Any reason why that is not the truth?
SterlingJB ago
Right, two witnesses, two absolutely different descriptions, and somehow the split of the two descriptions came out podesta bros. Not making an argument or anything here, just appreciating the WTFness regardless of the any reasons.
Are_we_sure ago
other bit of wierdness was the security firm run hired by the family was run by a conman. The conman was supposedly not directly involved in the efits, that was another investigator. However the conman was quite familiar with American lobbying firms. In fact, he was closely connected to Patton Boggs a competitor to the Podesta Group.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/fraud-suspect-kevin-richard-halligen-allegedly-posed-as-a-spy-and-cheated-the-elite-on-both-sides-of-the-atlantic/2012/06/09/gJQA3gdwQV_story.html?utm_term=.d39697c99e7c
pby1000 ago
Well, I think you raise some valid points. I don't pretend to have answers to all of your questions and concerns.
I just think it is very strange for someone to mix up a box jaw with a thin jaw. I have done some portraits, and I know it changes the entire facial structure.
It is also strange that the two sketches happen to match the facial structures of the Podesta brothers. I think that is pretty remarkable. It is a very unlikely occurrence. Of course, this does not prove anything, but I am thinking probabilities here and probable cause.
I think it would take less than five minutes to search the database to see if either of the Podesta Brothers was outside the U.S. at the time in question. Based on the sketches, I think that the police have probable cause to do this basic search.
If it turns out that the Podestas were out of the country at the time in question, then I think it gives the police probable cause to determine what country they were in.
If it turns out that the Podestas were in Portugal at the time in question, then I think it really gives the police probable cause to investigate in much greater detail.
"The police say it's one man as described by two witnesses. Any reason why that is not the truth?" Because I do not trust the police. Most of them are Freemasons, and they will cover for fellow Occult members. Same with the police in other countries, especially England.
Are_we__sure ago
This is kind only strange until you look at studies of eyewitness testimony and see some truly bad sketches that have been done.
This is indeed odd.
Really? Seriously, based on something done in another country? With no request from that police department. And that police department says it's one guy who is between 20-40 years old? Do you think the police a lying about it being one person?
OK, here we go.
pby1000 ago
The police will barge into someone's home based on less evidence. A classic example are the swatting incidences. The standard for probable cause is much lower than people expect. The e-fit was released by Scotland Yard, so it is not like it was done by someone sitting in their basement wearing a fedora. Besides, a quick look at the database to see if the Podesta brothers were out of the country would not inconvenience them at all. They would not even know it happened.
Yes, here we go. It is the same thing over and over again. There are noticeable patterns that should not be ignored.
Are_we__sure ago
And they said it was of one man age 20-40.
And Scotland Yard did not create the efit.
That's not the point at all. What you are describing is an illegal abuse of power.
ActivatedCorn ago
What about the ears? This has been the main identification point of Stephen Paddock so I am presuming accuracy in ear lobe identification is second to none.
pby1000 ago
I am not really sure, to be honest with you. It just strikes me that the person in one sketch clearly has a box jaw, and the other one does not. The Podesta brothers just happen to have those exact same features. I think that a competent portrait artist would not confuse a box jaw with a thin jaw. It changes the whole facial structure.
ActivatedCorn ago
What is the facial similarity between Eric Paddock and John Podesta?
pby1000 ago
Eric Paddock and Skippy? Hmmm... I am not sure. Let me look.
I think that Skippy and Tony Podesta do not resemble each other like Eric and Stephen Paddock do, but that is not what you are asking...
Eric Paddock has a beard, too, so it is not easy to see his chin.
How do I overlay two portaits? What software do I need to do this?
ActivatedCorn ago
I am not sure we need to do that really though.
I think that it is becoming quite clear who is who.
ActivatedCorn ago
There is a program for free called GIMP (I hate the name but it is quite good) which is like a mediocre quality photoshop - you could layer the images and alter the transparency
pby1000 ago
I will look. It would be very helpful if we can superimpose faces on one another.
StevePaddock ago
Agreed.