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darkknight111 ago

@Millennial_Falcon @Vindicator @Honeybee @sensitive

Due to this thread's OP being a known shill who has no interest in exposing pedophilia and human trafficking by elites, only in defending leftist elites, requesting "Possible Disinformation" or "Accuracy in Question". flares. Title is also misleading, so axing under rule 3 is recommended. The "evidence" being used is the group in question's own word of mouth and groups own website. Questionable evidence at best.

Him having 3+ accounts in his own words "make more commemts" aka shill more is just further evidence that he's a shill, therefore anything he says is inherently untrustworthy.

Millennial_Falcon ago

I agree he is most likely a shill, but Voat is very protective of free speech. Unless he is clearly and incontrovertibly misrepresenting facts, we must allow him to lay out his argument. I haven't thoroughly read the post, though, so if you find any violations of Rule 2, please let me know. The title is not violating Rule 3, because it is stating the position that his post attempts to support.

darkknight111 ago

None of his links make any mention of James Alefantis. Nothing in his post even mentions James Alefantis. Its all about Silsby. His title is misleading.

His sources are the websites of the suspects in question, so they're inherently untrustworthy. Like taking a murderer's testimony as being honest.

The agenda of the shill is to censor people who disagree with "the official narrative", so him trying to use free speech as his justification to censor us is hypocritical.

Are_we_sure ago

I mention Alefantis right up front.

I plan to prove this statement is false and demonstrate there is no connection between Silsby and Alefantis.

Max Maccoby, is on the Boards of Directors of an NPH orphanage called Friends of the Orphans, which ... happens to be the orphanage from which Silsby was caught trafficking children.

The alleged connection goes Alefantis to Maccoby family to Friends of the Orphans to Nuestro Pequeno Hermanos to Silsby.

The only evidence for this last connection is Silsby's activities in Haiti. I focus on Silsby because I can prove she never dealt with NPH/NPFS and thus has no connection with the Maccobys and thus no connection with Alefantis

His sources are the websites of the suspects in question, so they're inherently untrustworthy

Suspects? Here you show yourself in unconcerned with the truth. The whole point of my post is the entire story of how the "suspicion" came about is the unsupported word of a conman. And I cite contemporaneous sources. From years before this now debunked theory came about.

Your point about censorship is ridiculous. I am arguing about the facts of tbe matter. Either Silsby went to an NPH/NPFS facility and was given children or she did not. You seem to be jumping to censorship because the facts of the matter are against you.

darkknight111 ago

We don't trust you or the truthfullness of your claims because what your motive is already known to be. Therefore any post you make or link you send has an intrinsic ulterior motive.

If you are not a shill, then how come you have not made a SINGLE thread or comment to help expose pedophila or human trafficking by ELITES. Everything you do is to defend the elites. If you were truly not a shill, then you would be helping expose these things. You don't therefore nobody trusts you.

The fact that you use 3+ accounts in the first place is further evidence that you are untrustworthy. You claim its because you get downvoated thus have reducef comment ability. cough reduced ability to shill. If you are truly honest, then delete all accounts except ONE. Then show photo proof you actually did it. If you don't do this, then anything you say cannot be trusted on the grounds of being a shill.

It is you who are not interested in the truth, only in covering it up.

Now you're moving on from "msm is the gospel for truth" to "the suspects word of mouth is the offical truth". Given the level of deceit by lefist elites and their underlings, everything they say upfront is suspect of being double speak.

Are_we_sure ago

Truth does not depend on my motive. That's the beauty of it. You can take a look at all of my research and see whether it stands up or not completely independent of me. You don't even have to think of me while you do it. You should try it. Engage my argument instead of me.

If you are not a shill, then how come you have not made a SINGLE thread or comment to help expose pedophila or human trafficking by ELITES.

Because I think this is a terrible way to view the issue. I think it distorts reality. We see this every time child pornographers or human traffickers are arrested and people get UPSET about it because it's not the elites. It's a distortion makes several errors. It's a mistake to view the ELITES as one harmonious group with one agenda. The people who do the most to fight human trafficking are also the ELITES. It's basically a pre-exisiting, free-floating conspiracy theory of "They're all out to get us" that was foisted on 2016 circumstances. It's a mistake to view criminals who commit the same crime as working together in a common conspiracy. It's a way of avoiding determining who is innocent and who is guilty and prefers to just sweep them all together. It's a flight from the truth.

votesarestolen ago

I really wish people here would understand what you say: a factual and well-sourced argument stands up as true regardless of who writes it. Honestly, I'm incredibly weary of the elite pedophilia investigation focusing so intensely on Comet Ping Pong, Laura Silsby, any and all occurrences of the word "pizza", etc. There are too many sensational and false claims being spread around concerning those topics. Many well-documented cases, like the Franklin scandal and Dutroux affair, are worth researching without resorting to mud-slinging that happens to be almost exclusively against Democrats.

Are_we_sure ago

I also found a lot evidence that story that the Clintons intervened in any way is not supported by the reporting at the time. There was a report in the British press that Bill Clinton went down there on a diplomatic mission, but nothing in the US press and nothing from Haiti. There are no State Department emails to this effect. Bill Cinton went down there as a UN envoy for earthquake relief.

There was no news like this when Jimmy Carter went to North Korea to negotiate the release of a prisoner. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38874977/ns/world_news-asia_pacific/t/american-imprisoned-n-korea-returns-us/#.Wdw2b2hSw2w

In fact, the Baptists were still in jail when Bill Clinton returned to the US, they couldn't even get bail. Soon after he got back he underwent surgery on a clogged artery, none of the new media reported anything about a diplomatic mission in Haiti.

On December 5th NBC News had this story http://www.nbcnews.com/id/35256786/ns/world_news-haiti/t/no-early-release-jailed-us-missionaries/#.Wdw6sWhSw2w

The lead was that the Baptists were not even going to get bail. It also included the facts that an American lawyer for one of the Baptists called on the US to intervene and this Baptist appeal to Obama

Three national leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention sent a letter Friday to President Barack Obama urging him to "do everything within the authority of your office to secure a safe return home" for the detainees.

Here's the part about the Clinton's.

"Obviously this is a matter for the Haitian judicial system," U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said Friday. Clinton's husband, former U.S. President Bill Clinton, now a special U.N. envoy for Haiti relief, met with President Rene Preval in Port-au-Prince on Friday, but said his visit had nothing to do with the detained Americans. Later, Clinton said the U.S. and Haitian governments should try to resolve the issue quickly. "I think what's important now is that the government of Haiti and the government of the United States to get together and go through this because the government of Haiti, as I understand it, is not looking for a fight. They just want to protect children," he said during a visit to an AIDS clinic. "The only thing I ask is both sides try to work through it as soon as possible.""Obviously this is a matter for the Haitian judicial system," U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said Friday. Clinton's husband, former U.S. President Bill Clinton, now a special U.N. envoy for Haiti relief, met with President Rene Preval in Port-au-Prince on Friday, but said his visit had nothing to do with the detained Americans. Later, Clinton said the U.S. and Haitian governments should try to resolve the issue quickly. "I think what's important now is that the government of Haiti and the government of the United States to get together and go through this because the government of Haiti, as I understand it, is not looking for a fight. They just want to protect children," he said during a visit to an AIDS clinic. "The only thing I ask is both sides try to work through it as soon as possible."

A few days later CNN revealed that lawyer's appeal included a letter directly to Secretary Clinton. The State Department

explicitly rejected that lawyer's request

explicitly stated things would follow regular State Department procedures and consular services

explicitly rejected any role for Bill Clnton.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will not get directly involved in the case of the 10 Americans detained in Haiti on child abduction charges, a State Department spokesman said Tuesday. "It would be highly unusual for the secretary of state to intervene in a case involving the judicial process of another country," spokesman P.J. Crowley said in an off-camera question-and-answer session. Reginald Brown -- the Washington lawyer who represents one of the detained Americans -- sent a letter to Clinton on Tuesday asking her to personally intervene with Haitian authorities.

He asked Clinton to make "a personal request" to Haitian authorities to allow Allen to speak to his wife and her lawyers and to have fresh supplies. "As far as I can tell, the one thing our detained American citizens have been able to do is communicate with just about anybody who wants to talk with them," Crowley said at the State Department. "If family members wish to talk to them, I think that is something that can be easily facilitated through our embassy in Port-au-Prince or through the Haitian government." The State Department continues carefully to defer to Haitian authorities. "We have had regular consular access and meetings with the 10 American citizens," Crowley said. "I believe we have facilitated getting medicine or other needs to our citizens. We are doing exactly what we would do with detained Americans anywhere in the world. "As to intervening directly in the case, we are very respectful of the Haitian government and of Haitian law."

"This is a Haitian legal process. The matters right now involve whether these individuals have broken Haitian law. We have talked to Haitian officials in general terms about their ability to conduct this procedure. If they want to explore alternative avenues with us, we will be happy to have that conversation," he said. The State Department also has ruled out any special role for former President Bill Clinton in a possible release of the Americans. **"It is unnecessary for former President Bill Clinton to play the role of intermediary as he did in North Korea in the case of the journalists being held," **Crowley told CNN on Monday. "The situation in North Korea and the situation in Haiti are dramatically different. In Haiti there is a functioning government with which we have diplomatic relations and established channels to monitor and deal with bilateral issues. North Korea is an opaque society with which we have no diplomatic relations." Crowley said there are other Americans in custody in Haiti, in addition to the 10 Americans, but he provided no details of their identity or circumstances. Some are believed to be held on drug charges. "There are other Americans in custody. I don't know what their charges are. ... I think there were some in custody before the earthquake," he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/02/09/haiti.clinton.arrests/index.html