As a fellow Christian and someone who has followed Jones for a long time, I have to take issue with your article on virtually all counts. I maintain you have finally fallen for the same propaganda marched out by Jones's most vehement enemies for years. I've commented extensively on why Infowars was targeted as the preeminent organization which to strong arm into a retraction. In response, Jones is doing everything he can obliquely to continue the fight again Satanic child sex slavery. Here are a just a few links to some of my recent remarks here at VOAT. I maintain that on a point by point basis, Jones's commitment to wanting to see the end of child sex slavery is unassailable. I see responses to my remarks here and there, but I cannot recall anyone proving any individual point wrong, and this should tell the careful reader something.
For you particularly DRJamesA, given your background, I hope you take the time read the last thread in particular right to the end and watch a few minutes of the video, and tell me your impression.
No offense, but that's about the nuttiest analysis I've ever read. The article I wrote clearly said I've been a Infowars supporter for 20 years. If Alex Jones is a Christian Syncretist that gives false information about who God is, and attacks Bible believing street preachers, then me having issue with that makes me a prey to the propaganda against him on the LEFT? Are you kidding me? What kind of warped logic is that? What I have issue with about Alex is entirely different from what the LEFT attacks him over; and I don't disagree with you that the majority of what the Left/MSM attacks him over his contrived crap.
And how can I trust a man who says he's willing to go to war, stands up to Hillary "Body Count" Clinton, but get's "strong armed" into capitulating to a PIZZA STORE OWNER? People end up dead over Hillary, but you're afraid of a pizza shop nerd? Doesn't add up, especially when Alex tells people "You want to sue me? BRING IT ON".
And I did prove all those points wrong in the article. Alex was wrong about HOW Pizzagate started; he was wrong about WHEN Pizzagate started, he was wrong about WHO pushed it into the public spotlight (it wasn't him or MSM), and the rest I laid out in the article.
DrJamesA, I am trying to rationalize your effort to seriously deceive the casual reader even as to the very premise of my presentation I requested your impression of. Here it is yet again in brief:
Jones was labelled a wicked atheist by a VOAT member, who cited a video that was to prove same. The speaker in the video readies to lay out the evidence, but first pleads with me about preacher Kent Hovind, a man of God unjustly sentenced to ten years in Federal prison. However, Kent Hovind is known to me, but only through the work of one Alex Jones, who discussed his plight dozens of times and even had him as a live-on-air guest from a Federal prison cell, a veritable miracle worked by Jones.
There is a term for this kind of sequence of events that tell two stories. It's called revelation. The VOAT member sought to prove Jones a wicked atheist, but cited a video that in fact proved Jones threw everything he could behind a wrongly convicted Bible believing street preacher. Sir, you did indeed prove something. You proved your evil intent in constructing your paper, and your fantastical fabrication in responding to me. DrJamesA, we are not equals.
I don't believe Alex is an atheist. I clearly stated in the article that he is a Christian Syncretist which is a liberal theistic position, but clearly not atheist.
And Kent Hovind and I graduated from the same alma mater (Calvary Christian College started by Jack Van Impe) so I am thoroughly familiar with where Hovind stands on theology, and I promise you he will never get a chance to explain his beliefs on the Alex Jones Show. Alex interviewed him a LONG time ago about government corruption, not about his Biblical views because if he did, Kent would probably straighten him out on a few things.
If you would have actually read my article, there are links to Infowars articles where Alex land Paul Joseph Watson attack Bible believing street preachers in the same denomination Hovind and I belong to.
I have now read your article thoroughly three times. I watched the ~6 minute video from Infowars found through one of the hyperlinks, but cannot find any links to any articles from either Alex Jones or Paul Joseph Watson in spite of clicking every hyperlink in your article and even every hyperlink at NowTheEndBegins. I fully intend to respond, but would like to read them first. Can you indicate precisely where they are to be found in the article as you just indicated?
If that direct link doesn't work for you the way it works for everyone else. Google "Alex Jones criticizes street preachers Now The End Begins". And if you claim THAT doesn't work: YOU'RE LYING
Hello DrJamesA, I have waited for sixteen days for you to make another Voat post to verify you read my most recent remarks, but admittedly, I'm pressed for time, so I'll have to proceed with responding to the video without benefit of a rebuttal from you on my other points.
The only evidence that Alex Jones or Paul Joseph Watson may have attacked street preachers consists of a six minute video you cite at Now the End Begins. If you were indeed a reader and listener of Infowars as you claim, you would know that every week they publish scores of videos, mostly with, but occasionally without accompanying articles. Some videos are of Jones, Watson, or an Infowars reporter, but occasionally the videos are from other news sources or submissions from freelance reporters that are not employees of Infowars. This video from a freelancer probably made it onto Infowars because it contains a short clip of Joe Biggs. When videos and articles are posted on Infowars website, the lion's share of selection and titling is done by dedicated news room editors, not Alex Jones or Paul Joseph Watson, neither of whom have the time to watch every video and read every article that might get posted. In all likelihood Jones was unaware this video was ever on the Infowars platform.
Now to the video itself. There is a discussion between the camera operator and a bystander that some very vocal proselytizers might be making Christians look bad. The bystander being interviewed did indeed describe what he sees as "Christian extremism" among other things, and from your viewpoint, I'm sure you would find the comment objectionable, but the question is, do these few remarks constitute an attack on street preachers from Alex Jones or Paul Joseph Watson?
Since the comments came from one man and the camera operator attending a very busy rally at the height of the election season, the answer would be no, they did not come from Alex Jones or Paul Joseph Watson in any way, shape, or form.
Finally, from the 2:35 mark on, they transition away from the street preachers and are in fact talking about radical Islamicists, and they use the Christian fundamentalists on hand to point out the extreme contrast between the two. They say in essence, look, Christian fundamentalists may hold signs and holler, but radical Islamicists will run you over with a lorry, as they had just done in Nice France, killing 84 people. When the fellow says "these are the fanatical Christians" he's actually dripping with sarcasm about the contrast between Christian fundamentalism and Islamic fundamentalism. They then transition into another topic at the 3:16 mark, conveniently.
I would wager that you altogether missed this transition at 2:35 to Islamicism in their dialogue. And you neglected to note in your article that the Infowars headline says "Are Street Preachers used to demonize Christian Conservatives?" They were asking a question of their readers, because that is the nature of fair and rational discussion. If there are Christians who prefer alternative methods to spreading the gospel besides bullhorning, I think it's reasonable to entertain the idea they're entitled to hold that opinion.
Therefore, your entire thesis that Alex Jones and Paul Joseph Watson attack street preachers rests on precisely one example of a few civil but no doubt insulting heat of the moment remarks made by people who are not Alex Jones or Paul Joseph Watson in less than three minutes of video (no accompanying article) at a very raucous rally where everybody's on edge and Christian fundamentalists are bullhorning the crowd.
DrJamesA, at the very best, you are a monumental exaggerator.
Unless you'd like to call another witness, the defense rests.
DrJamesA, I see that you were on VOAT yesterday and are thus now aware that there are no such articles. Would you like to correct the record and offer an explanation, or would you rather have the casual reader realize you either fabricated the story or were journalistically incompetent? I am duty-bound to complete the proof that Jones and Watson never remotely attacked street preachers as you claim, so kindly respond, otherwise I will just proceed with the rest of my proof.
DrJamesA, I sense some hostility in your two replies. For the sake of continuity, I will address salient points of both responses in this one post.
You wrote:
Thirdly, all of your points do not address what I raised in the article, and some are even red herrings and strawmen. For example. You attempted to claim I was painting Jones as an atheist, and my last response clearly stated that not only did I never make that point, but in fact, stated he was a CHRISTIAN Syncretist. I gave you a link as to what a religions syncretist is, which you apparently didn't even bother to read.
DrJamesA, I refute the claim. Can you cite or quote specifically where I remotely attempted to claim you were painting Jones as an Atheist? And what formed the basis for you imagining I did not read your link about Christian Syncratism? For the record, when I am dialoguing with someone about a particular topic, I always extend the courtesy of reading things offered by my counterpart.
To recapitulate, I indicated I read your article, and disagreed. You accused me of not even reading it, further citing as some evidence the fact I had not even read the articles by Alex Jones and Paul Joseph Watson that were purportedly included in your article. Here is your remark to that effect:
If you would have actually read my article, there are links to Infowars articles where Alex land Paul Joseph Watson attack Bible believing street preachers in the same denomination Hovind and I belong to.
I responded that I read your article three times and exhaustively searched for those links to Infowars articles, not just in your article, but also the article at Now the End Begins, including every theoretically possible hyperlink at both pages. Your response was:
So what you're saying is that you can't find where Alex Jones criticized street preachers on the link I provided even though the article itself is TITLED "INFOWARS SAYS CHRISTIAN STREET PREACHERS ARE ‘RADICAL EXTREMISTS’ WHO MAKE CHRISTIANITY LOOK BAD" And you wonder why I don't want to respond to you.
If that direct link doesn't work for you the way it works for everyone else. Google "Alex Jones criticizes street preachers Now The End Begins". And if you claim THAT doesn't work: YOU'RE LYING
Exactly, DrJamesA. I'm saying that I can't find where Alex Jones criticized street preachers on the link you provided. And although highly redundant, for the sake of heading off obfuscation, I just googled "Alex Jones criticizes street preachers Now The End Begins" as you suggested and read the very same article for the fourth time, except I reached it in a different manner.
All links work perfectly, but none take me to any articles by Alex Jones or Paul Joseph Watson, let alone ones that attack Christian street preachers. That direct link you just cited takes me to a page that contains one video from Infowars (which I am also willing to address once I read the articles under discussion) and no links to any articles written by Alex Jones and Paul Joseph Watson.
Clicking the title INFOWARS SAYS CHRISTIAN STREET PREACHERS ARE 'RADICAL EXTREMISTS' WHO MAKE CHRISTIANITY LOOK BAD does little more than link to another page making claims about Infowars from a lone 6 minute video taken by someone other than Jones or Watson. To suggest that I should now scour the internet for the very articles by Alex Jones and Paul Joseph Watson that may have formed the basis for your article because they are nowhere to be found, is unreasonable. I do not believe any such articles exist, because they are nowhere to be found in your article or anything you've cited in spite your claims and my exhaustive efforts to find them.
If you cannot cite where these linked articles by Alex Jones and Paul Joseph Watson are to be found in your article or in the secondary article at Now the End Begins (and extension of all hyperlinks at the aforementioned) it is obvious they are not there, and thus you were disingenuous. Nonetheless, I am even willing to forgive your oversight if you can furnish links to any articles by Alex Jones and Paul Watson where they attack street preachers.
UPDATE:
DrJamesA, I decided to re-read your comment:
First of all, when you open a comment that begins of accusing me of trying to deceive my readers, when I've been a loyal financial supporter and follower of Alex Jones for nearly 20 years, that's not a very good way to get a response.
Secondly, everything I mentioned can be Googled, so you're not trying very hard. As I mentioned in the article, my goal was not to give detailed explanations about Pizza Gate because that work has already been, but to provide a logical refutation of Jones' apology. Every single "rebuttal" you keep making ignores that part of my article.
Thirdly, all of your points do not address what I raised in the article, and some are even red herrings and strawmen. For example. You attempted to claim I was painting Jones as an atheist, and my last response clearly stated that not only did I never make that point, but in fact, stated he was a CHRISTIAN Syncretist. I gave you a link as to what a religions syncretist is, which you apparently didn't even bother to read.
Thus, given that you have repeatedly demanded that I answer questions that have nothing to do with what I actually wrote, I'm not going to chase rabbit trails that are out of context, and strawmen
Anticipating an objection based on your second point that I wasn't trying hard because I could simply find said articles through google, I changed my mind about insisting it was incumbent upon you to produce them. I have now finished a reasonably comprehensive google search using various terms. No such articles could be found.
There are two possible reasons why no such articles could be found on google:
The articles you cite by Jones and Watson exist, but are obscure and very difficult to locate, in which case it is incumbent upon you to produce them.
The articles do not exist, in which case you either fabricated the idea that said articles exist, or you erred by imagining that the articles exist.
With respect to the second reason, if you erred by merely imaging there are articles where Jones and Watson attack street preachers, then this is evidence that you are not a reliable journalist and your writings are suspect in all regard. If you fabricated the idea that the articles exist, then you are guilty of bearing false witness against your fellow man, which is a very serious sin in the eyes of the Lord.
view the rest of the comments →
rwb ago
As a fellow Christian and someone who has followed Jones for a long time, I have to take issue with your article on virtually all counts. I maintain you have finally fallen for the same propaganda marched out by Jones's most vehement enemies for years. I've commented extensively on why Infowars was targeted as the preeminent organization which to strong arm into a retraction. In response, Jones is doing everything he can obliquely to continue the fight again Satanic child sex slavery. Here are a just a few links to some of my recent remarks here at VOAT. I maintain that on a point by point basis, Jones's commitment to wanting to see the end of child sex slavery is unassailable. I see responses to my remarks here and there, but I cannot recall anyone proving any individual point wrong, and this should tell the careful reader something.
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1771271/8676569/10#8676569
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1754846/8595738/10#8595738
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1769360/8666903/10#8666903
For you particularly DRJamesA, given your background, I hope you take the time read the last thread in particular right to the end and watch a few minutes of the video, and tell me your impression.
DrJamesA ago
No offense, but that's about the nuttiest analysis I've ever read. The article I wrote clearly said I've been a Infowars supporter for 20 years. If Alex Jones is a Christian Syncretist that gives false information about who God is, and attacks Bible believing street preachers, then me having issue with that makes me a prey to the propaganda against him on the LEFT? Are you kidding me? What kind of warped logic is that? What I have issue with about Alex is entirely different from what the LEFT attacks him over; and I don't disagree with you that the majority of what the Left/MSM attacks him over his contrived crap.
And how can I trust a man who says he's willing to go to war, stands up to Hillary "Body Count" Clinton, but get's "strong armed" into capitulating to a PIZZA STORE OWNER? People end up dead over Hillary, but you're afraid of a pizza shop nerd? Doesn't add up, especially when Alex tells people "You want to sue me? BRING IT ON".
And I did prove all those points wrong in the article. Alex was wrong about HOW Pizzagate started; he was wrong about WHEN Pizzagate started, he was wrong about WHO pushed it into the public spotlight (it wasn't him or MSM), and the rest I laid out in the article.
rwb ago
DrJamesA, I am trying to rationalize your effort to seriously deceive the casual reader even as to the very premise of my presentation I requested your impression of. Here it is yet again in brief:
Jones was labelled a wicked atheist by a VOAT member, who cited a video that was to prove same. The speaker in the video readies to lay out the evidence, but first pleads with me about preacher Kent Hovind, a man of God unjustly sentenced to ten years in Federal prison. However, Kent Hovind is known to me, but only through the work of one Alex Jones, who discussed his plight dozens of times and even had him as a live-on-air guest from a Federal prison cell, a veritable miracle worked by Jones.
There is a term for this kind of sequence of events that tell two stories. It's called revelation. The VOAT member sought to prove Jones a wicked atheist, but cited a video that in fact proved Jones threw everything he could behind a wrongly convicted Bible believing street preacher. Sir, you did indeed prove something. You proved your evil intent in constructing your paper, and your fantastical fabrication in responding to me. DrJamesA, we are not equals.
DrJamesA ago
I don't believe Alex is an atheist. I clearly stated in the article that he is a Christian Syncretist which is a liberal theistic position, but clearly not atheist. And Kent Hovind and I graduated from the same alma mater (Calvary Christian College started by Jack Van Impe) so I am thoroughly familiar with where Hovind stands on theology, and I promise you he will never get a chance to explain his beliefs on the Alex Jones Show. Alex interviewed him a LONG time ago about government corruption, not about his Biblical views because if he did, Kent would probably straighten him out on a few things.
If you would have actually read my article, there are links to Infowars articles where Alex land Paul Joseph Watson attack Bible believing street preachers in the same denomination Hovind and I belong to.
Again, I don't believe Alex is an atheist, but what he teaches on his show is far more dangerous. Here's a start on what Christian/Religious Syncretism is
rwb ago
I have now read your article thoroughly three times. I watched the ~6 minute video from Infowars found through one of the hyperlinks, but cannot find any links to any articles from either Alex Jones or Paul Joseph Watson in spite of clicking every hyperlink in your article and even every hyperlink at NowTheEndBegins. I fully intend to respond, but would like to read them first. Can you indicate precisely where they are to be found in the article as you just indicated?
DrJamesA ago
So what you're saying is that you can't find where Alex Jones criticized street preachers on the link I provided even though the article itself is TITLED "INFOWARS SAYS CHRISTIAN STREET PREACHERS ARE ‘RADICAL EXTREMISTS’ WHO MAKE CHRISTIANITY LOOK BAD" And you wonder why I don't want to respond to you.
If that direct link doesn't work for you the way it works for everyone else. Google "Alex Jones criticizes street preachers Now The End Begins". And if you claim THAT doesn't work: YOU'RE LYING
rwb ago
Hello DrJamesA, I have waited for sixteen days for you to make another Voat post to verify you read my most recent remarks, but admittedly, I'm pressed for time, so I'll have to proceed with responding to the video without benefit of a rebuttal from you on my other points.
The only evidence that Alex Jones or Paul Joseph Watson may have attacked street preachers consists of a six minute video you cite at Now the End Begins. If you were indeed a reader and listener of Infowars as you claim, you would know that every week they publish scores of videos, mostly with, but occasionally without accompanying articles. Some videos are of Jones, Watson, or an Infowars reporter, but occasionally the videos are from other news sources or submissions from freelance reporters that are not employees of Infowars. This video from a freelancer probably made it onto Infowars because it contains a short clip of Joe Biggs. When videos and articles are posted on Infowars website, the lion's share of selection and titling is done by dedicated news room editors, not Alex Jones or Paul Joseph Watson, neither of whom have the time to watch every video and read every article that might get posted. In all likelihood Jones was unaware this video was ever on the Infowars platform.
Now to the video itself. There is a discussion between the camera operator and a bystander that some very vocal proselytizers might be making Christians look bad. The bystander being interviewed did indeed describe what he sees as "Christian extremism" among other things, and from your viewpoint, I'm sure you would find the comment objectionable, but the question is, do these few remarks constitute an attack on street preachers from Alex Jones or Paul Joseph Watson?
Since the comments came from one man and the camera operator attending a very busy rally at the height of the election season, the answer would be no, they did not come from Alex Jones or Paul Joseph Watson in any way, shape, or form.
Finally, from the 2:35 mark on, they transition away from the street preachers and are in fact talking about radical Islamicists, and they use the Christian fundamentalists on hand to point out the extreme contrast between the two. They say in essence, look, Christian fundamentalists may hold signs and holler, but radical Islamicists will run you over with a lorry, as they had just done in Nice France, killing 84 people. When the fellow says "these are the fanatical Christians" he's actually dripping with sarcasm about the contrast between Christian fundamentalism and Islamic fundamentalism. They then transition into another topic at the 3:16 mark, conveniently.
I would wager that you altogether missed this transition at 2:35 to Islamicism in their dialogue. And you neglected to note in your article that the Infowars headline says "Are Street Preachers used to demonize Christian Conservatives?" They were asking a question of their readers, because that is the nature of fair and rational discussion. If there are Christians who prefer alternative methods to spreading the gospel besides bullhorning, I think it's reasonable to entertain the idea they're entitled to hold that opinion.
Therefore, your entire thesis that Alex Jones and Paul Joseph Watson attack street preachers rests on precisely one example of a few civil but no doubt insulting heat of the moment remarks made by people who are not Alex Jones or Paul Joseph Watson in less than three minutes of video (no accompanying article) at a very raucous rally where everybody's on edge and Christian fundamentalists are bullhorning the crowd.
DrJamesA, at the very best, you are a monumental exaggerator.
Unless you'd like to call another witness, the defense rests.
rwb ago
DrJamesA, I see that you were on VOAT yesterday and are thus now aware that there are no such articles. Would you like to correct the record and offer an explanation, or would you rather have the casual reader realize you either fabricated the story or were journalistically incompetent? I am duty-bound to complete the proof that Jones and Watson never remotely attacked street preachers as you claim, so kindly respond, otherwise I will just proceed with the rest of my proof.
rwb ago
DrJamesA, I sense some hostility in your two replies. For the sake of continuity, I will address salient points of both responses in this one post.
You wrote:
DrJamesA, I refute the claim. Can you cite or quote specifically where I remotely attempted to claim you were painting Jones as an Atheist? And what formed the basis for you imagining I did not read your link about Christian Syncratism? For the record, when I am dialoguing with someone about a particular topic, I always extend the courtesy of reading things offered by my counterpart.
To recapitulate, I indicated I read your article, and disagreed. You accused me of not even reading it, further citing as some evidence the fact I had not even read the articles by Alex Jones and Paul Joseph Watson that were purportedly included in your article. Here is your remark to that effect:
I responded that I read your article three times and exhaustively searched for those links to Infowars articles, not just in your article, but also the article at Now the End Begins, including every theoretically possible hyperlink at both pages. Your response was:
Exactly, DrJamesA. I'm saying that I can't find where Alex Jones criticized street preachers on the link you provided. And although highly redundant, for the sake of heading off obfuscation, I just googled "Alex Jones criticizes street preachers Now The End Begins" as you suggested and read the very same article for the fourth time, except I reached it in a different manner.
All links work perfectly, but none take me to any articles by Alex Jones or Paul Joseph Watson, let alone ones that attack Christian street preachers. That direct link you just cited takes me to a page that contains one video from Infowars (which I am also willing to address once I read the articles under discussion) and no links to any articles written by Alex Jones and Paul Joseph Watson.
Clicking the title INFOWARS SAYS CHRISTIAN STREET PREACHERS ARE 'RADICAL EXTREMISTS' WHO MAKE CHRISTIANITY LOOK BAD does little more than link to another page making claims about Infowars from a lone 6 minute video taken by someone other than Jones or Watson. To suggest that I should now scour the internet for the very articles by Alex Jones and Paul Joseph Watson that may have formed the basis for your article because they are nowhere to be found, is unreasonable. I do not believe any such articles exist, because they are nowhere to be found in your article or anything you've cited in spite your claims and my exhaustive efforts to find them.
If you cannot cite where these linked articles by Alex Jones and Paul Joseph Watson are to be found in your article or in the secondary article at Now the End Begins (and extension of all hyperlinks at the aforementioned) it is obvious they are not there, and thus you were disingenuous. Nonetheless, I am even willing to forgive your oversight if you can furnish links to any articles by Alex Jones and Paul Watson where they attack street preachers.
UPDATE:
DrJamesA, I decided to re-read your comment:
Anticipating an objection based on your second point that I wasn't trying hard because I could simply find said articles through google, I changed my mind about insisting it was incumbent upon you to produce them. I have now finished a reasonably comprehensive google search using various terms. No such articles could be found.
There are two possible reasons why no such articles could be found on google:
The articles you cite by Jones and Watson exist, but are obscure and very difficult to locate, in which case it is incumbent upon you to produce them.
The articles do not exist, in which case you either fabricated the idea that said articles exist, or you erred by imagining that the articles exist.
With respect to the second reason, if you erred by merely imaging there are articles where Jones and Watson attack street preachers, then this is evidence that you are not a reliable journalist and your writings are suspect in all regard. If you fabricated the idea that the articles exist, then you are guilty of bearing false witness against your fellow man, which is a very serious sin in the eyes of the Lord.