You clearly have no insight into how much shitposting and rule violation happens in new submissions. The current number of mods is still not enough to cover 24 hours each day. Before throwing out ideas like this, it might be worthwhile to conduct a reality check. For example, you could volunteer 3-4 hours of your time to watch /new, and then you tell us what percentage of new submissions need moderator action of some sort. Judging by your current optimism, I promise you you'll be surprised.
The post you've linked to has not been removed. I sincerely believe that if we change rule 4 to allow mod-related posts on /v/pizzagate, this sub will go to shit, flooded with the whining and complaints of the people whose submissions we've removed for any kind of rule violation. I would say every third removal results in complaints even though they indeed violate submission requirements. If we allow all that on this sub, it is over for this sub. Hence the request for everybody to subscribe to /v/pizzagatemods, and take these there, so that the investigative content doesn't get lost in the noise. The community made no effort to subscribe to /v/pizzagatemods, and now the community is complaining that there's nobody on /v/pizzagatemods. In my opinion, the proposed change of rule 4 is not the solution to this problem.
Both of the threads linked were deleted. It's impossible to organize anything or present anything without concrete evidence and this is hindering this investigation badly.
@Letsdoit edited the link in their comment I was replying to. The original link pointed recursively to this post of yours, which, at the time of me writing my comment, was not deleted.
It's impossible to organize anything or present anything without concrete evidence and this is hindering this investigation badly.
It is not. If you have the slightest demonstrable base for claiming a connection to Pizzagate, and you do spell out that connection explicitly, your submission will not be pulled. It is either a failure of post authors to do so, or the actual lack of said connecting dot that gets posts removed. In both of those cases, /v/pizzagatewhatever is still an option, and no, it's not a good argument that /v/pizzagatewhatever doesn't have enough subs. It is up to the community to decide whether they subscribe to a subverse or not. When they don't, they implicitly express their thoughts about the contents of the given sub. If the community doesn't want to subscribe to /v/pizzagatewhatever, why would they want to see the same content on /v/pizzagate from now on?
What's so hard to understand about all my replies addressing this already?
There are submission rules we need to enforce.
The submission rules have been vetted and accepted by the same community you're trying to act on behalf of.
The low number of subscribers in another subverse is the direct result of the kind and quality of the various contents that belong there. If the community is that uninterested in this kind of content, why would we let you shove down the throats of 10000+ people what they're clearly not interested in by changing a rule that has been vetted and accepted by the exact same 10000+ people?
Bullshit, the rules were created by a minority of the members, I'm questioning now how many were just alt accounts of mods.
Can you smell the crap coming out of your mouth? People dont go to the other sub because you guys predetermined in the rules that's where all the unrelated shit goes. Why would people subscribe? Now youre using the rules against everyone in the community. "Go post this call for protest where nobody will see it."
Fine, continue to believe you "see thrugh the bullshit" then if that makes you sleep better. The rules are a result of trolls, shills, and legit individuals with no sense for what is a proper investigative submission posting content that, if allowed without the filter of sourced, investigative content for just three days, will kill the subverse, and then you can complain about not having a place to discuss proper leads and sourced findings either. If you're so sure that 10000+ people would want to see the kind of content you want to see, there is nothing stopping you in setting up a subverse yourself, or a board somewhere outside of Voat, or an own website on your own servers, and see how many are interested in a board with no moderation rules to guarantee that only sourced, investigative content gets out. This subverse has been an investigative subverse from the beginning, and we aim to keep it that way. That is not up for debate. If the 10000+ subscribers weren't into the way things work on here, they would have abandoned the sub by now. So far, that doesn't seem to be the case. It is a loud minority that seems to complain about moderation on here, and it may or may not largely overlap with the group that is continually incapable of posting something worthwhile that actually furthers the investigation.
This is all the capacity I've had to debate about this, so I'm done after this comment. You may open a discussion on /v/pizzagatemods if you want further input from other people.
I'm not arguing to let the sub run free, I'm arguing so the community has recourse when we think something has been deleted unjustly. We have none now and you guys obviously would like to keep it that way. Quit twisting what I said in the thread to include letting shit posts stand.
You're simultaneously arguing for more mod transparency, and a license to post non-investigative content if you see it as important. I'm directly responding to a comment of yours that talks about the latter.
Now youre using the rules against everyone in the community. "Go post this call for protest where nobody will see it."
I really can't keep helping you remember what you said five minutes ago. And I'm really done debating about this.
I'm arguing that problems with moderation in v/pizzagate should be handled in v/pizzagate. If it comes down to the COMMUNITY (not me) deciding you guys were wrong for deleting a post, than so be it. Keep trying to spin it to what you want to believe though, it's rather entertaining and telling.
view the rest of the comments →
Nana66 ago
I vote we dump 2/3rds of the babysitters/Mods.
wecanhelp ago
You clearly have no insight into how much shitposting and rule violation happens in new submissions. The current number of mods is still not enough to cover 24 hours each day. Before throwing out ideas like this, it might be worthwhile to conduct a reality check. For example, you could volunteer 3-4 hours of your time to watch /new, and then you tell us what percentage of new submissions need moderator action of some sort. Judging by your current optimism, I promise you you'll be surprised.
Letsdoit ago
What about getting organised like what this removed submission is about https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1587156 time to change rule 4???
wecanhelp ago
The post you've linked to has not been removed. I sincerely believe that if we change rule 4 to allow mod-related posts on /v/pizzagate, this sub will go to shit, flooded with the whining and complaints of the people whose submissions we've removed for any kind of rule violation. I would say every third removal results in complaints even though they indeed violate submission requirements. If we allow all that on this sub, it is over for this sub. Hence the request for everybody to subscribe to /v/pizzagatemods, and take these there, so that the investigative content doesn't get lost in the noise. The community made no effort to subscribe to /v/pizzagatemods, and now the community is complaining that there's nobody on /v/pizzagatemods. In my opinion, the proposed change of rule 4 is not the solution to this problem.
ThePuppetShow ago
Both of the threads linked were deleted. It's impossible to organize anything or present anything without concrete evidence and this is hindering this investigation badly.
I gave you your upvote for participating though..
wecanhelp ago
@Letsdoit edited the link in their comment I was replying to. The original link pointed recursively to this post of yours, which, at the time of me writing my comment, was not deleted.
It is not. If you have the slightest demonstrable base for claiming a connection to Pizzagate, and you do spell out that connection explicitly, your submission will not be pulled. It is either a failure of post authors to do so, or the actual lack of said connecting dot that gets posts removed. In both of those cases, /v/pizzagatewhatever is still an option, and no, it's not a good argument that /v/pizzagatewhatever doesn't have enough subs. It is up to the community to decide whether they subscribe to a subverse or not. When they don't, they implicitly express their thoughts about the contents of the given sub. If the community doesn't want to subscribe to /v/pizzagatewhatever, why would they want to see the same content on /v/pizzagate from now on?
ThePuppetShow ago
The link in question demonstrated ties to pizzagate and was deleted. It was a call to organize peaceful protests about pizzagate.
wecanhelp ago
It was deleted rightly so. /v/pizzagatewhatever is the proper subverse for submissions like that.
ThePuppetShow ago
Actually it would be v/pizzagatemods and that was already discussed if you paid attention.
wecanhelp ago
This is clearly a topic for /v/pizzagatewhatever.
ThePuppetShow ago
Why? If you're trying to organize a comminity of 10000 you don't post stuff where only 100 will see it. What's so hard to understand about this?
wecanhelp ago
What's so hard to understand about all my replies addressing this already?
ThePuppetShow ago
Bullshit, the rules were created by a minority of the members, I'm questioning now how many were just alt accounts of mods.
Can you smell the crap coming out of your mouth? People dont go to the other sub because you guys predetermined in the rules that's where all the unrelated shit goes. Why would people subscribe? Now youre using the rules against everyone in the community. "Go post this call for protest where nobody will see it."
Lots of us see through the bullshit.
wecanhelp ago
Fine, continue to believe you "see thrugh the bullshit" then if that makes you sleep better. The rules are a result of trolls, shills, and legit individuals with no sense for what is a proper investigative submission posting content that, if allowed without the filter of sourced, investigative content for just three days, will kill the subverse, and then you can complain about not having a place to discuss proper leads and sourced findings either. If you're so sure that 10000+ people would want to see the kind of content you want to see, there is nothing stopping you in setting up a subverse yourself, or a board somewhere outside of Voat, or an own website on your own servers, and see how many are interested in a board with no moderation rules to guarantee that only sourced, investigative content gets out. This subverse has been an investigative subverse from the beginning, and we aim to keep it that way. That is not up for debate. If the 10000+ subscribers weren't into the way things work on here, they would have abandoned the sub by now. So far, that doesn't seem to be the case. It is a loud minority that seems to complain about moderation on here, and it may or may not largely overlap with the group that is continually incapable of posting something worthwhile that actually furthers the investigation.
This is all the capacity I've had to debate about this, so I'm done after this comment. You may open a discussion on /v/pizzagatemods if you want further input from other people.
ThePuppetShow ago
I'm not arguing to let the sub run free, I'm arguing so the community has recourse when we think something has been deleted unjustly. We have none now and you guys obviously would like to keep it that way. Quit twisting what I said in the thread to include letting shit posts stand.
wecanhelp ago
You're simultaneously arguing for more mod transparency, and a license to post non-investigative content if you see it as important. I'm directly responding to a comment of yours that talks about the latter.
I really can't keep helping you remember what you said five minutes ago. And I'm really done debating about this.
Crensch ago
Stellar job responding here.
wecanhelp ago
Thank you.
ThePuppetShow ago
I'm arguing that problems with moderation in v/pizzagate should be handled in v/pizzagate. If it comes down to the COMMUNITY (not me) deciding you guys were wrong for deleting a post, than so be it. Keep trying to spin it to what you want to believe though, it's rather entertaining and telling.