https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1538112
There's a thread up on this board that is a very good example of how speculation becomes fact and the limits of internet investigation. It also indulges in a couple of common logical fallacies, jumping to conclusions and the fallacy with the formal name Post hoc ergo propter hoc
It starts with the title
The Clintons, Carlos Slim and Frank Giustra created a Haitian peanut supply chain enterprise that doesn't exist
So what is the evidence for this claim?
The LinkedIn page for the company Acceso Peanut Enterprise Corporation
And a Google Maps photo that shows an overhead shot of the street of the address listed on the Linked In Page. It just shows the rooftops, not even the storefronts.
That's it. It's really not very much at all to conclude that the Company doesn't exist. And yet a conclusion was made.
Is this a front for something?
After they set up this "company", Haiti gets flooded with peanuts: http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/05/05/476876371/u-s-to-ship-peanuts-to-feed-haitian-kids-aid-groups-say-this-is-wrong
Something weird is going on!
There's a couple of issues going on here.
One is that internet research can give you a distorted view of things. In the Seth Rich thread, someone uses google maps to show that the Pegasus museum is not in the same neighborhood as where Seth Rich was murdered. (Turns out to be the same someone.) This link was posted
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Bloomingdale,+Washington,+DC,+United+States/3516+11th+St+NW,+Washington,+DC+20010,+USA/@38.9253976,-77.0367528,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x89b7b801ffc8106f:0xa6ddec7a8b5d9d76!2m2!1d-77.0118246!2d38.9176761!1m5!1m1!1s0x89b7c819726cd99b:0x4e6ba1bad5cb38f6!2m2!1d-77.028833!2d38.933122!3e2
And it seems to pretty conclusively show the distance is about 2 miles.
Another issue is not everything can be determined from your desk chair. Think of how many debates there were about Comet Ping Pong and if it had a basement.
So let's take a look at the link in the peanut thread.
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Oge,+Port-au-Prince,+Haiti/@18.5108481,-72.28539,102m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8eb9e862a39aba99:0xe67ae9bce086602e!8m2!3d18.5108624!4d-72.2848682
It's true that no listing comes up for Acceso Peanut Enterprise Corporation. But does that mean it's not there?
No. I just checked the address I'm at right now. Many of the businesses on this street are not mentioned in google maps.
What can we see in the Google Maps Image?
It's a commercial street. There's a supermarket and an Asian Fusion
What is the link to?
It's to the headquarters of Accesso Peanut.
Could Accesso be in one of the unmarked buildings?
The linked in Profile shows that it has 11-50 employees. So yes, if it's on the low side, you could easily have office space for 11 people.
What is at that address?
The Google marker actually appears in the middle of the street, but the closest thing to it, it's a building with a parking area with about 10 cars and it's labelled World Bank. This actually makes me think this is absolutely the correct address. So there is office space on the block and being by the World Bank would be a great location.
What if they have 50 employees?
If they have 50 employees, it might be a stretch for them to fit there. But again what is there? Their headquarters. Which means they have other locations which makes sense if they are in the peanut business.
It almost seems like this investigation was done just to find an anomaly or that once something seemed odd was found, the investigation stopped.
The claim is the company doesn't exist. So Let's see what evidence there is for the company existing?
Evidence that Accesso Peanut does in fact exist.
Their website is on the Clinton Giustra Enterprise Partnership website
http://cgepartnership.com/our-enterprises/supply/haiti-peanut/
It's listed as one of four Supply Chain Enterprise Companies.
The General Manager is listed on that page. Else where you can see the names and pictures of
the COO
the finance manager
the operations manager
A professional looking video is there with the General Manager speaking about what they actually do and their business model. (If this is a scam company, the script for the video is very good, this guy does seem to know what he's talking about.)
One of the things they do is there have depots to store peanuts. So this would account for some of those 11-50 employees.
The page also lists investors and partners. In addition to Giustra and Slim there are six others. The first one I clicked on
was farmforce.com. They list the World Bank as a customer of theirs.
One of the partners is the University of Georgia College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences. If you search their site
for Accesso, you'll find two reports on Peanut Productivity and Mycotoxin Control. Accesso is listed as a program partner in both reports. Trips to Accesso's depot's are also mentioned several times on their blog
http://blog.caes.uga.edu/pmil/tag/acceso-peanut-enterprise-corporation/
The Clinton foundation has a Flicker stream and you can see several photos of Chelsea Clinton in Haiti including at some Accesso projects.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/49152339@N05/with/20125601316/
A Parisian business school has an interview with graduates worked for the Clinton Foundation including the Accesso general manager
http://www.mba.hec.edu/mbablog/2015/10/23/haiti-mbas-unlikely-places-3/
An agricultural website discuss both Accesso and the peanut glut. It explains a program added to the Farm Bill ended up with the USDA having 500 metric tons of surplus peanuts.
http://www.bigag.com/topics/ag-news/mass-supply-peanuts-now-what/
This article links to a Washington Post article on the peanut glut and Accesso
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/04/04/how-the-u-s-s-peanut-glut-could-undermine-the-work-of-the-clintons/?utm_term=.270d660ebebc
A website called findthecompany.com has a listing for Access Peanut, Same address is given as above. Playing with google maps I noticed another NGO across the street called the HIFIVE Project. I zoomed out a bit and noticed that neighborhood is crawling with NGOs. All
CARE
American Red Cross
PSI Haiti
ANIMH
Fondation SOGEBANK
Here's a job listing for the Accounting and Financial Systems Manager position at Accesso Peanut
https://lukescircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/APEC_TOR_Accounting-Financial-Systems-Manager.pdf
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waxdino ago
I see where you are going, but it is honestly not helpful. I don't know if your intention in pointing out flaws is to help or "debunk," but you're kind of just being a jerk. You found good info there to expound on the original findings, why not present it as such instead of "everyone on this board expect me is an idiot and conspiracy nut"?
This is a mish mash collaboration of mostly average, inexperienced "investigators" and "journalists." Mistakes will be made, people will misspeak. Obviously Acesso actually exists if they dumped unwanted peanuts on Haiti.
My main take away from the original thread was, here is another example of the Clinton foundation taking part in shady, harmful dealings. Here are possible leads. That important info was conveyed just fine.
Is your point, "if I can make this strawman out of your post, anyone stumbling into pizzagate can, and dismiss it"? Because that also isn't fair, there is mountains of circumstantial evidence and "coincidences" to dig through, if the imperfection of amateurs handling the investigation is all that turns them off, they want to stay blue-pilled.
Pizzagate doesn't manufacture much of anything, and can't be expected to. There may be a big, serious breakthrough, but we're severely limited. Our best hope is to chip away at it and spread awareness, imo. I'll take a flawed post with good info over more "I found a band poster with satan on it!" type of threads.
AreWeSure ago
Granted I did just post a wall of text, two walls of text actually, and I can't expect everyone to have read both parts but this is completely wrong.
and it's one of the reasons, I made that post. That and to spread awareness of some common logical fallacies that we are all susceptible to.
Accesso deals with Haitian peanuts only. Dumping means bringing foreign products into a domestic market. By definition you can't dump Haitian peanuts into the Haitian market. The dumping of peanuts into Haiti was done by a group other than Accesso and other than the Clinton Foundation. So that post deceived you.
If something is true, hopefully it can stand on its own and it can stand up to scrutiny and logic. You don't have to take some magic pill if it's true.
waxdino ago
Ok, I see what you are saying, and you're right, I didn't see the npr article not pointing the finger at acesso. Those of us that jumped to that conclusion was wrong.
So, good thing that a) so many are working on it and b) I would've figured that out if it was something I was really digging through and not just "adding to the pile." That article still demonstrates the US taking advantage of Haiti under the guise of help. And Acesso is still shady.
I stand behind what I said, if you saw that, and dug through to find more details, why not be helpful about it? "Here's why you all suck, and why this will fail" isn't helpful. Of course we suck. But if pizzagate doesn't result in professional investigation, it's not because we handled it in an amateurish way. It will be because tptb and the citizens decide to continue to ignore it. I will take your advice to pay closer attention (I was just half-assing it yesterday, more surface reading than digging). But, don't blame us for not being professional!