https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1538112
There's a thread up on this board that is a very good example of how speculation becomes fact and the limits of internet investigation. It also indulges in a couple of common logical fallacies, jumping to conclusions and the fallacy with the formal name Post hoc ergo propter hoc
It starts with the title
The Clintons, Carlos Slim and Frank Giustra created a Haitian peanut supply chain enterprise that doesn't exist
So what is the evidence for this claim?
The LinkedIn page for the company Acceso Peanut Enterprise Corporation
And a Google Maps photo that shows an overhead shot of the street of the address listed on the Linked In Page. It just shows the rooftops, not even the storefronts.
That's it. It's really not very much at all to conclude that the Company doesn't exist. And yet a conclusion was made.
Is this a front for something?
After they set up this "company", Haiti gets flooded with peanuts: http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/05/05/476876371/u-s-to-ship-peanuts-to-feed-haitian-kids-aid-groups-say-this-is-wrong
Something weird is going on!
There's a couple of issues going on here.
One is that internet research can give you a distorted view of things. In the Seth Rich thread, someone uses google maps to show that the Pegasus museum is not in the same neighborhood as where Seth Rich was murdered. (Turns out to be the same someone.) This link was posted
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Bloomingdale,+Washington,+DC,+United+States/3516+11th+St+NW,+Washington,+DC+20010,+USA/@38.9253976,-77.0367528,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x89b7b801ffc8106f:0xa6ddec7a8b5d9d76!2m2!1d-77.0118246!2d38.9176761!1m5!1m1!1s0x89b7c819726cd99b:0x4e6ba1bad5cb38f6!2m2!1d-77.028833!2d38.933122!3e2
And it seems to pretty conclusively show the distance is about 2 miles.
Another issue is not everything can be determined from your desk chair. Think of how many debates there were about Comet Ping Pong and if it had a basement.
So let's take a look at the link in the peanut thread.
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Oge,+Port-au-Prince,+Haiti/@18.5108481,-72.28539,102m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8eb9e862a39aba99:0xe67ae9bce086602e!8m2!3d18.5108624!4d-72.2848682
It's true that no listing comes up for Acceso Peanut Enterprise Corporation. But does that mean it's not there?
No. I just checked the address I'm at right now. Many of the businesses on this street are not mentioned in google maps.
What can we see in the Google Maps Image?
It's a commercial street. There's a supermarket and an Asian Fusion
What is the link to?
It's to the headquarters of Accesso Peanut.
Could Accesso be in one of the unmarked buildings?
The linked in Profile shows that it has 11-50 employees. So yes, if it's on the low side, you could easily have office space for 11 people.
What is at that address?
The Google marker actually appears in the middle of the street, but the closest thing to it, it's a building with a parking area with about 10 cars and it's labelled World Bank. This actually makes me think this is absolutely the correct address. So there is office space on the block and being by the World Bank would be a great location.
What if they have 50 employees?
If they have 50 employees, it might be a stretch for them to fit there. But again what is there? Their headquarters. Which means they have other locations which makes sense if they are in the peanut business.
It almost seems like this investigation was done just to find an anomaly or that once something seemed odd was found, the investigation stopped.
The claim is the company doesn't exist. So Let's see what evidence there is for the company existing?
Evidence that Accesso Peanut does in fact exist.
Their website is on the Clinton Giustra Enterprise Partnership website
http://cgepartnership.com/our-enterprises/supply/haiti-peanut/
It's listed as one of four Supply Chain Enterprise Companies.
The General Manager is listed on that page. Else where you can see the names and pictures of
the COO
the finance manager
the operations manager
A professional looking video is there with the General Manager speaking about what they actually do and their business model. (If this is a scam company, the script for the video is very good, this guy does seem to know what he's talking about.)
One of the things they do is there have depots to store peanuts. So this would account for some of those 11-50 employees.
The page also lists investors and partners. In addition to Giustra and Slim there are six others. The first one I clicked on
was farmforce.com. They list the World Bank as a customer of theirs.
One of the partners is the University of Georgia College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences. If you search their site
for Accesso, you'll find two reports on Peanut Productivity and Mycotoxin Control. Accesso is listed as a program partner in both reports. Trips to Accesso's depot's are also mentioned several times on their blog
http://blog.caes.uga.edu/pmil/tag/acceso-peanut-enterprise-corporation/
The Clinton foundation has a Flicker stream and you can see several photos of Chelsea Clinton in Haiti including at some Accesso projects.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/49152339@N05/with/20125601316/
A Parisian business school has an interview with graduates worked for the Clinton Foundation including the Accesso general manager
http://www.mba.hec.edu/mbablog/2015/10/23/haiti-mbas-unlikely-places-3/
An agricultural website discuss both Accesso and the peanut glut. It explains a program added to the Farm Bill ended up with the USDA having 500 metric tons of surplus peanuts.
http://www.bigag.com/topics/ag-news/mass-supply-peanuts-now-what/
This article links to a Washington Post article on the peanut glut and Accesso
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/04/04/how-the-u-s-s-peanut-glut-could-undermine-the-work-of-the-clintons/?utm_term=.270d660ebebc
A website called findthecompany.com has a listing for Access Peanut, Same address is given as above. Playing with google maps I noticed another NGO across the street called the HIFIVE Project. I zoomed out a bit and noticed that neighborhood is crawling with NGOs. All
CARE
American Red Cross
PSI Haiti
ANIMH
Fondation SOGEBANK
Here's a job listing for the Accounting and Financial Systems Manager position at Accesso Peanut
https://lukescircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/APEC_TOR_Accounting-Financial-Systems-Manager.pdf
DarkMath ago
"evidence that this company exist"......There's no doubt Accesso exists. But you're missing the point here. The Clinton Foundation and the IHRC are suspected of running an elaborate money laundering operation with a side of tax evasion. It's through that lens you need to view Accesso.
So the presence of a real office building there with many other registered companies is MORE evidence of fraud rather than LESS. Why? THIS IS HOW MONEY LAUNDERING AND TAX HAVENS WORK. All over the Caribbean you'll see the same sketchy office buildings where 10s even 100s of corporation reside either in a PO Box or something as big as a cubicle with one dude in it. They're all fronts for either tax evasion of money laundering.
AreWeSure do you know what the banks in Panama City are called? The Launderettes.
But there's more. If you look closely at that Google maps address you'll see the building is labelled World Bank. Sound familiar? See any red flags? No? Take a look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man
Don't have the energy to click that link? That's ok: "According to his book, Perkins' function was to convince the political and financial leadership of underdeveloped countries to accept enormous development loans from institutions like the World Bank and USAID. Saddled with debts they could not hope to pay, those countries were forced to acquiesce to political pressure from the United States on a variety of issues."
Any clearer now AreWeSure?
;-)
AreWeSure ago
I agree with you that having a company exist makes it more likely that it committed fraud. That stands up to logical scrutiny. How much more likely, I can't say.
DarkMath ago
"How much more".......George Webb has some insight into that. Have you seen any of his videos? There's some pretty damming evidence there. The one on CIA "cutouts" has particular relevance here given John Perkins book "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man". The World Bank and the CIA are tied at the hip.
https://www.youtube.com/user/georgwebb/videos
And btw I appreciate the objectivity. I really do.
2impendingdoom ago
You are a fucking shill
waxdino ago
I see where you are going, but it is honestly not helpful. I don't know if your intention in pointing out flaws is to help or "debunk," but you're kind of just being a jerk. You found good info there to expound on the original findings, why not present it as such instead of "everyone on this board expect me is an idiot and conspiracy nut"?
This is a mish mash collaboration of mostly average, inexperienced "investigators" and "journalists." Mistakes will be made, people will misspeak. Obviously Acesso actually exists if they dumped unwanted peanuts on Haiti.
My main take away from the original thread was, here is another example of the Clinton foundation taking part in shady, harmful dealings. Here are possible leads. That important info was conveyed just fine.
Is your point, "if I can make this strawman out of your post, anyone stumbling into pizzagate can, and dismiss it"? Because that also isn't fair, there is mountains of circumstantial evidence and "coincidences" to dig through, if the imperfection of amateurs handling the investigation is all that turns them off, they want to stay blue-pilled.
Pizzagate doesn't manufacture much of anything, and can't be expected to. There may be a big, serious breakthrough, but we're severely limited. Our best hope is to chip away at it and spread awareness, imo. I'll take a flawed post with good info over more "I found a band poster with satan on it!" type of threads.
AreWeSure ago
Granted I did just post a wall of text, two walls of text actually, and I can't expect everyone to have read both parts but this is completely wrong.
and it's one of the reasons, I made that post. That and to spread awareness of some common logical fallacies that we are all susceptible to.
Accesso deals with Haitian peanuts only. Dumping means bringing foreign products into a domestic market. By definition you can't dump Haitian peanuts into the Haitian market. The dumping of peanuts into Haiti was done by a group other than Accesso and other than the Clinton Foundation. So that post deceived you.
If something is true, hopefully it can stand on its own and it can stand up to scrutiny and logic. You don't have to take some magic pill if it's true.
waxdino ago
Ok, I see what you are saying, and you're right, I didn't see the npr article not pointing the finger at acesso. Those of us that jumped to that conclusion was wrong.
So, good thing that a) so many are working on it and b) I would've figured that out if it was something I was really digging through and not just "adding to the pile." That article still demonstrates the US taking advantage of Haiti under the guise of help. And Acesso is still shady.
I stand behind what I said, if you saw that, and dug through to find more details, why not be helpful about it? "Here's why you all suck, and why this will fail" isn't helpful. Of course we suck. But if pizzagate doesn't result in professional investigation, it's not because we handled it in an amateurish way. It will be because tptb and the citizens decide to continue to ignore it. I will take your advice to pay closer attention (I was just half-assing it yesterday, more surface reading than digging). But, don't blame us for not being professional!
2impendingdoom ago
What is the point of this?? Duh, the Haiti peanut supply chain doesn't exist ANYMORE. The dumping of free peanuts ended it, and in a bad way. That was how I interpreted the thread title, which makes it accurate. Your interpretation doesn't mean that the Clinton's are off the hook. Monica Peterson is still dead, the brother still has ties to the mining, and for all the money donated, Haiti is still a fucking mess.
AreWeSure ago
This is another example of a conclusion jumped to from a very great distance.
Vita Mamba is still being producing using local peanuts which would indicate an existing supply chain.
2impendingdoom ago
I would also point out that peanuts are a perishable item so that even if there was isolated instance of flooding the market, eventually those peanuts will go bad or run out, and some growers would resume planting. Meanwhile most others growers are ruined financially and probably sold their children. No point in dumping more peanuts if enough kids are already sold. Got to wait for more births or wreck a different market. If you want contribute to threads and provide real information that would be great, but we are not here for a social experiment. We are here because children and real people are being harmed by corruption, abuse of office and treachery.
AreWeSure ago
That's an awesome post. You really squared the circle there. So they dumped the peanuts so people would send them their children. That's ....yeah.
2impendingdoom ago
So that they could buy children. Come up with a better reason. The entire of point of the CF is to create and exploit destabilized regions. That is the pattern we are seeing over and over and over. You can be naive but you cannot deny that everything the Clintons get involved with goes to shit.
AreWeSure ago
Successfully creating a way to make AIDS medicine available to poor countries is going to shit? I disagree.
2impendingdoom ago
You should look into that too, because according the Podesta emails, CHAI (Ira Magaziner) is leveraging high prices in the US Market for cheap distribution of drugs to developing countries. So basically, if you are living in the US, you're getting screwed. I'm not against poor people getting meds, but price fixing is illegal and unfair to both poor americans and tax paying americans who have to subsidize health insurance to them. You seem to be taking a position that Clinton's can do no wrong, but I am having a hard time seeing where this applies without there being an underlying scam.
2impendingdoom ago
Okay, so what is the actual current production of Haitian peanuts now compared to the time prior to Clinton Guistra involvement? Do you have numbers?
AreWeSure ago
No.
KingKongisCTR ago
You chose that as your account name and made this post because you are a shill. If you have any evidence contradicting a thread, post such evidence in that thread. Otherwise, bye Felicia.
derram ago
https://archive.is/STSkz :
This has been an automated message.
AreWeSure ago
My last bit of evidence that this company exist is this washington post article from 2015 that focuses on the Clintons and Haiti. On the plus side is the work with peanut farmers and on the minus side is the Caracol Industrial Park. Here's every reference to Accesso.
In short, if you wanted to look for evidence that Acceso Peanut Enterprise Corporation is real, it's not very hard.
Response to this shaky evidence
Even given this fact, very few people in the thread question the conclusion in the title that Accesso Peanut doesn't exist at all. A couple of people point out, hey the World Bank is there and that's a good clue. A few other folks point out that Clinton Giustra has a few Accesso companies, but agree with the conclusion that they are fronts or shady. One person went to the website and watch the video and came to the conclusion I did. The map link is the urban office and a lot of the work is closer to the crops in the rural parts of Haiti. This person agrees some exploitation is happening. *The next two people accuse this person of being a shill. *
Logical Fallacies or how we fool ourselves
The fact that subject of the thread is pratically clickbait doesn't really concern mainly of the people in it even though it's such an obvious jumping to a conclusion. That not the only conclusion jumped to. There's another conclusion jumped to, so we are up to two logical fallacies now. The other conclusion is that the "company" Accesso Peanut, notice the scare quotes has something to do with Haiti being flooded with peanuts. The implication is that Haiti being flooded with peanuts is the fault of the Clintons, or Accesso Peanut or something? It reaches this conclusion through a third logic fallacy known in Latin as Post hoc ergo propter hoc. I like to refer to it as: THIS happened. Then THAT happened. Therefore THIS caused THAT. This is one of the more popular ways to argue on the internt.
Remember, logical fallacies are a way of us fooling ourselves. This kind of makes sense: The Clintons founded a for profit peanut company in Haiti, and now peanut farmers in Haiti are struggling, thefore the Clintons caused the peanut farmers in Haiti to struggle. However when you pull it apart, it doesn't make sense at all.
One thing happened. Another thing happened. One cause the other.
I make the example more obvious to spot how illogical it is.
Prince died. Then Trump was elected President. Therefore Prince's death caused Trump's win.
Actually one thing happened a few years ago and the other within the last year so it would be something more like Robin Willaims died. Trump was Elected. Therefore Williams death caused Trump's win.
In cases like this we can see that this is completely illogical and we are fooling ourselves to say one caused the other.
An Alternative Conclusion from These Facts.
The posts links to an NPR article on the peanut glut, but that article doesn't mentioned Accesso or the Clintons' at all. In fact, it mentions who is responsible for bringing the peanut glut to Haiti, the US Department of Agriculure, not the Clinton Foundation. The NPR article does mention and link to this story on when Clinton in the 1990s pushed for Haiti to lower its tarriffs on rice. https://www.facingsouth.org/2010/03/southern-rice-and-haitian-hunger.html and cheap US rice flooded the market. That story also quotes Clinton saying that was a mistake and a bad policy.
And most importantly, if you were not looking at this from a conspiratorial point of view, you would see that Accesso is taking a much, much different approach that the USDA. They are not working in concert. They appear to working at cross purposes. Accesso's approach is to work with local farmers to increase crop yields and provide services that connect them to markets. And since they profit from this, if Haitian peanut farmers are hurt, so would they be hurt.
This is not some grand government wide conspiracy, this is the government working in silos and in ignorance working towards goals that are at cross purposes. USDA is pushing this and USAID is against this.
The hook for the NPR article on the peanut glut is this Letter against the USDA's plan from 60 aid organizations that was put out in May. Even before that letter Partners in Health put out a letter in April condemning peanut dumping in Haiti. http://www.pih.org/blog/no-to-dumping-peanuts-in-haiti
Partners in Health, where have I have I heard of them before. Oh yeah, the Accesso Peanut Enterprise website where they are listed as a partner. http://cgepartnership.com/our-enterprises/supply/haiti-peanut/