Edit: To the people downvoting: not sure how many of you are shills, and how many are just uninformed, but please get informed about this guy's actual complaints before you downvote me for fighting disinformation. An example of how quickly disinformation spreads is how people in this thread are saying this guy accused Alefantis of rape and murder. Not even close to true! He claimed that such a venue being open so late would bring rape and murder to the area (i.e. it would be a crime magnet). You have to understand that fake evidence like this is the NUMBER ONE tool the enemy is using to disrupt our investigation. It wastes our time and ends up discrediting us for confirmation bias.
This post is old news (was discovered back in the /r/pizzagate days) and completely unrelated to Pizzagate. This was an overactive neighborhood association member trying to keep outside traffic out of his neighborhood.
Here's an article that covers the dispute in a bit more detail:
Rule #8 of Truth Suppression: "Dismiss charges as 'old news'."
I don't see how this isn't connected to Pizzagate. It proves that someone was onto Alefantis almost a decade ago... perhaps for entirely different reasons.
I had never heard about the rules of truth suppression, but after reading your comment, I suspected that was a former publication. Just checked it out, good stuff. Thanks for saying something.
I'll be honest, I had never heard of this stuff either. I have no idea who wrote it all out or how accurate it is, whether or not any of those tactics are being used here. It all seems like it makes sense to me, even if I don't fully understand their game. But understanding their techniques and terminology go a long way toward being informed. Sifting through the bullshit becomes easier when you know how your enemy thinks and talks.
I'm learning as I go.
I don't know that @millennial_falcon is specifically employing disinformation strategies, I honestly haven't taken the time to look into it that heavily. I am not accusing him of anything nefarious but I am skeptical of the entire mod team (every user, really); when I see some bullshit, I feel like I need to call it out.
And I see that several folks agree with my assessment.
Well, since you pinged me, I'll reply. If you look through my comment history, you will see me promoting good evidence, and questioning questionable evidence. It would be really ironic for anyone to suggest I'm promoting disinformation, as disinformation is the main threat I have been fighting since this investigation began. I also spent several days putting together the current Pizzagate summary sticky, and I continue to work on it, as time allows. A lot of people hear don't seem to get how damaging confirmation bias is to our credibility. People in this thread immediately assumed Winstead's concerns were Pizzagate-related, without actually investigating what it was really about. That kind of frenzied irrationality is very harmful to our efforts. People in this thread are actually saying Winstead accused Alefantis of rape and murder. Nope. He accused him of making a "haven for rape and murder." If you look at the context, he meant that Comet being open late would attract crimes such as rape and murder.
Did you download the audio recording and listen to it? There's actually something interesting happening in the meeting. Alefantis brought a whole crowd along to boo the bloke, and some stood up to personally threaten the guy. Winstead got pissed off, but it was a premeditated attack against Winstead. The article doesn't even write the full story, it was more about "operating post-midnight" than about having ping pong tables outside, as far as I recall.
The important thing is that Winstead clearly considered Alefantis to be scum. This is important considering Alefantis has shown no such traits during the Megan Kelly interview, so obviously he has a side to him that he hasn't shown on TV.
He claimed that such a venue being open so late would bring rape and murder to the area (i.e. it would be a crime magnet)
Isn't that exactly what the Pizzagate investigation is about?
If we're under the assumption that PG is actually happening and that CPP/Alefantis are a part of an underground child trafficking ring, isn't that precisely "bringing rape and murder" to Connecticut Ave?
I understand your stance on preventing disinfo in this sub and not following false leads or making poor connections but I'm really struggling to see how your argument disqualifies this incident as being valid to our investigation. SHOW us how this is an example of a FORUM SLIDE, rather than TELLING us that it is... that's all I'm asking for.
not sure how many of you are shills
Getting real sick of you guys constantly tossing that phrase around without any evidence or examination. Both @millennial_falcon and @crensch in this thread alone are guilty of it; you've spent more time arguing the credibility of the posters in this thread than you have 'debunking' the facts in question that were presented in the original post.
Rule 8 of Disinformation: Invoke Authority
You both use terminology that I'm not familiar with, I suspect several other users as well, with full authority. You're experts on CTR tactics, shills, disinformation, cointelpro, etc... and you're willing to use your authority on anyone who disagrees with you. It doesn't do anything for the discussion and it doesn't prevent the trolls, shills or idiots from fucking up everything we're working toward. (Rule 5 of Disinfo: Sidetrack opponents with name calling)
All it does is further dilute the topics and divide our community. (Read https://sli.mg/5HK8jK and tell me this doesn't feel an awful lot like a thread designed to tear us apart)
'Old news' and 'coincidence' are at least two ways of trying to fight this I have seen. You know like ten year old allegations of rape and murder to the same guy we are investigating for the same thing. But you know that is old news and must be coincidence.
Using fake evidence to support Pizzagate is a poison pill. I'm not dismissing Pizzagate. Take a look at the current summary sticky and see who wrote it.
When did I say it was fake news? You just made a fake claim. What I said is that it is not related to pizzagate. Try actually investigating and reading about it, instead of automatically assuming it must be related. Confirmation bias. It's real.
Using fake evidence to support Pizzagate is a poison pill.
FAKE NEWS!!
Yeah but you'll have to explain why it's poison, I'm not taking your word for it just because you wrote a summary.
That's called discussion and it's what we're here to do. It's pretty easy for you to dismiss the discussion in this thread because YOU said it's not relevant... but you're not showing WHY it's not relevant.
Or should I use buzzwords like "caution" "concern" trolling?
I think you are trying to hold this investigation to a standard that is for the courts to do. This is not an official investigation with presumed innocence and search warrants and grand juries. This is a citizen investigation in the court of public opinion. The public decides if something is relevant. Furthermore, it is relevant because it depicts a pattern of accusations over a period of time.... and where there is smoke there is fire. Stop trying to presume innocence and give the benefit of the doubt, believe me the pedofile political elite don't play the game that way. As Andrew breitbart said to podesta he is playing to win. The rule applies only if both sides follow them. And for the record no one has been charged so no one is presumed innocent . Do you understand how it works? step one: suspect is arrested, step two: his Miranda raights are read. No one is charged so no one is presumed innocent. That is the way the game is played but in the court of public opinion people have a right to form their own opinion about the facts and it is a FACT that frank winstead said comet ping was associated with rapes and murder.
I agree but it has to be investigated in order to be determined fake or not. Test everything but saying it's irrelevant is akin to labeling it fake news. It's important not to disregard facts, it's too early without more evidence to make judgements about winstead motivations. Don't you think?
I agree but it has to be investigated in order to be determined fake or not.
The impossible game.
Present unlimited false leads that people like @Forgetmenot will demand need to be investigated in order to bury the real lead needles in the proverbial haystack.
You need to watch yourself. This attitude of yours got you on the wrong side of something with me before. If I see this kind of bullshit argument again, I'll be labeling you as some kind of CTR/shill/COINTEL.
Stop wasting everyone's fucking time with UNPROVEN new (or old) links. Period.
What do you mean by watch myself? Is that a threat? To do what exactly?
Why will you label me CTR for commenting to a post. This is NOT MY POST. I simply upvoated and commented. @Ronnilynn31 is the user who made the post.
Our last interaction I thought you were CTR now I wonder if you are a troll that likes to create conflict with your threats intimidation and bad words. The other prabability is that pizzagate has hit a nerve and we are in intimidation stage in order to suppress the truth.
This is very unpleasant of you and I am now going to figure out if voat has a block feature. If not unless I somehow violate the rules of voat please don't interact with me again. No offense intended. Too much drama already.
What do you mean by watch myself? Is that a threat? To do what exactly?
I will respond to your stupid posts by actually calling you one of those things and outright dismissing whatever you've said with the conclusion I've come to. How does that sound to you?
I don't want to interact with you actually. Last time I cosidered just quitting voat and canceling my acct. you are that unpleasant. What do you mean: I need to watch myself? A threat? What do you mean by this?
Then You also state: You will label me CTR? Is this because you disagree with my opinion?
Let me spell it out: I have not submitted the post I simply upvoated the post. Along with many other users that commented and upvoated. I also commented that I thought it was useful and why I thought it was useful. Not sure what triggered this reaction from you. But maybe a different mod or admin should way in. i really find dealing with you unpleasant. Last time you did not even introduce yourself as a mod to me now this time you are threatening me with a CTR label? Yet I thought you were CTR and asked you straight out. Which you never denied, nor did you ever confirm you were a mod. I had to figure out how to look it up. And even reach out to other mods. I am new to voat if you want to take my rights to upvoat for having an opinion that does not violate the rules, that is really strange although Reddit got that way. And I guess it only shows that pizzagate really is a threat and is on to something. I have not submitted a post, I simply upvoated and posted a comment that supported the value of the comment. This is too much drama from you, your bad words your threats and your labeling me as CTR. If @/Millennial_Falcon feels that I was insulting on a personal level or violated a a rule he or she is welcome to let me know. Not sure why you are jumping in, this is very unprofessional.
Namecalling a user, making threats, belittling, you are harassing me please refrain from interacting with me if you want to involve an admin I welcome it. Right now I don't have time to try to figure out voat to report you. Leave me alone, you are very unprofessional and demeaning of anyone's opinion that you don't agree with.
Namecalling a user, making threats, belittling, you are harassing me please refrain from interacting with me if you want to involve an admin I welcome it.
Eat a dick.
Right now I don't have time to try to figure out voat to report you.
You can't report me for shit. Go back where you came from, because that kind of thinking doesn't work here.
Leave me alone, you are very unprofessional and demeaning of anyone's opinion that you don't agree with.
Ok u r probably right, a lot of this is way out of my league, I typically lurk and up voat and share information learned here to raise awareness. we all have a right to our opinion, I can respect that, and it does not offend me when you say eat a dick. In fact that came so out of left field it was funny, and well laughter is a great way to diffuse tension. Have a good one!
You keep pushing for the impossible game and pretending to be helpful. That's at best troll-like activity, at worst intentional forum COINTEL, and if neither of those, abject stupidity.
view the rest of the comments →
QuestionEverything ago
Dont direct traffic at these assholes. Archive ftw.
Millennial_Falcon ago
Edit: To the people downvoting: not sure how many of you are shills, and how many are just uninformed, but please get informed about this guy's actual complaints before you downvote me for fighting disinformation. An example of how quickly disinformation spreads is how people in this thread are saying this guy accused Alefantis of rape and murder. Not even close to true! He claimed that such a venue being open so late would bring rape and murder to the area (i.e. it would be a crime magnet). You have to understand that fake evidence like this is the NUMBER ONE tool the enemy is using to disrupt our investigation. It wastes our time and ends up discrediting us for confirmation bias.
This post is old news (was discovered back in the /r/pizzagate days) and completely unrelated to Pizzagate. This was an overactive neighborhood association member trying to keep outside traffic out of his neighborhood.
Here's an article that covers the dispute in a bit more detail:
http://web.archive.org/web/20120212231251/http://dcist.com/2008/06/18/small_victory_for_comet_ping_pong_a.php
Not going to delete, but flairing for relevance.
eMalum ago
Rule #8 of Truth Suppression: "Dismiss charges as 'old news'."
I don't see how this isn't connected to Pizzagate. It proves that someone was onto Alefantis almost a decade ago... perhaps for entirely different reasons.
mrjdouble ago
I had never heard about the rules of truth suppression, but after reading your comment, I suspected that was a former publication. Just checked it out, good stuff. Thanks for saying something.
eMalum ago
I'll be honest, I had never heard of this stuff either. I have no idea who wrote it all out or how accurate it is, whether or not any of those tactics are being used here. It all seems like it makes sense to me, even if I don't fully understand their game. But understanding their techniques and terminology go a long way toward being informed. Sifting through the bullshit becomes easier when you know how your enemy thinks and talks.
I'm learning as I go.
I don't know that @millennial_falcon is specifically employing disinformation strategies, I honestly haven't taken the time to look into it that heavily. I am not accusing him of anything nefarious but I am skeptical of the entire mod team (every user, really); when I see some bullshit, I feel like I need to call it out.
And I see that several folks agree with my assessment.
Millennial_Falcon ago
Well, since you pinged me, I'll reply. If you look through my comment history, you will see me promoting good evidence, and questioning questionable evidence. It would be really ironic for anyone to suggest I'm promoting disinformation, as disinformation is the main threat I have been fighting since this investigation began. I also spent several days putting together the current Pizzagate summary sticky, and I continue to work on it, as time allows. A lot of people hear don't seem to get how damaging confirmation bias is to our credibility. People in this thread immediately assumed Winstead's concerns were Pizzagate-related, without actually investigating what it was really about. That kind of frenzied irrationality is very harmful to our efforts. People in this thread are actually saying Winstead accused Alefantis of rape and murder. Nope. He accused him of making a "haven for rape and murder." If you look at the context, he meant that Comet being open late would attract crimes such as rape and murder.
redberries ago
Did you download the audio recording and listen to it? There's actually something interesting happening in the meeting. Alefantis brought a whole crowd along to boo the bloke, and some stood up to personally threaten the guy. Winstead got pissed off, but it was a premeditated attack against Winstead. The article doesn't even write the full story, it was more about "operating post-midnight" than about having ping pong tables outside, as far as I recall.
The important thing is that Winstead clearly considered Alefantis to be scum. This is important considering Alefantis has shown no such traits during the Megan Kelly interview, so obviously he has a side to him that he hasn't shown on TV.
eMalum ago
@millennial_falcon
Isn't that exactly what the Pizzagate investigation is about? If we're under the assumption that PG is actually happening and that CPP/Alefantis are a part of an underground child trafficking ring, isn't that precisely "bringing rape and murder" to Connecticut Ave?
I understand your stance on preventing disinfo in this sub and not following false leads or making poor connections but I'm really struggling to see how your argument disqualifies this incident as being valid to our investigation. SHOW us how this is an example of a FORUM SLIDE, rather than TELLING us that it is... that's all I'm asking for.
Getting real sick of you guys constantly tossing that phrase around without any evidence or examination. Both @millennial_falcon and @crensch in this thread alone are guilty of it; you've spent more time arguing the credibility of the posters in this thread than you have 'debunking' the facts in question that were presented in the original post.
Rule 8 of Disinformation: Invoke Authority
You both use terminology that I'm not familiar with, I suspect several other users as well, with full authority. You're experts on CTR tactics, shills, disinformation, cointelpro, etc... and you're willing to use your authority on anyone who disagrees with you. It doesn't do anything for the discussion and it doesn't prevent the trolls, shills or idiots from fucking up everything we're working toward. (Rule 5 of Disinfo: Sidetrack opponents with name calling)
All it does is further dilute the topics and divide our community. (Read https://sli.mg/5HK8jK and tell me this doesn't feel an awful lot like a thread designed to tear us apart)
Shitseverewhere ago
'Old news' and 'coincidence' are at least two ways of trying to fight this I have seen. You know like ten year old allegations of rape and murder to the same guy we are investigating for the same thing. But you know that is old news and must be coincidence.
Millennial_Falcon ago
Using fake evidence to support Pizzagate is a poison pill. I'm not dismissing Pizzagate. Take a look at the current summary sticky and see who wrote it.
WhoFramedReaderRabit ago
This isn't Fake
Newsevidence it's an article from 8 years ago, your telling me a fakenewsevidence was planted from 8 years ago?Millennial_Falcon ago
When did I say it was fake news? You just made a fake claim. What I said is that it is not related to pizzagate. Try actually investigating and reading about it, instead of automatically assuming it must be related. Confirmation bias. It's real.
WhoFramedReaderRabit ago
Fixed
This isn't Fake
Newsevidence it's an article from 8 years ago, your telling me a fakenewsevidence was planted from 8 years ago?Millennial_Falcon ago
Who said anything about it being planted? What I said is that it's most likely not related to pizzagate.
WhoFramedReaderRabit ago
I said some people think its planted. And I think it is related to pizzagate.
Millennial_Falcon ago
What do you base that on?
eMalum ago
FAKE NEWS!!
Yeah but you'll have to explain why it's poison, I'm not taking your word for it just because you wrote a summary. That's called discussion and it's what we're here to do. It's pretty easy for you to dismiss the discussion in this thread because YOU said it's not relevant... but you're not showing WHY it's not relevant.
Or should I use buzzwords like "caution" "concern" trolling?
Millennial_Falcon ago
Yeah, I'm discussing how this is most likely completely irrelevant to Pizzagate.
Edit: Added sources that provide more detail.
Forgetmenot ago
I think you are trying to hold this investigation to a standard that is for the courts to do. This is not an official investigation with presumed innocence and search warrants and grand juries. This is a citizen investigation in the court of public opinion. The public decides if something is relevant. Furthermore, it is relevant because it depicts a pattern of accusations over a period of time.... and where there is smoke there is fire. Stop trying to presume innocence and give the benefit of the doubt, believe me the pedofile political elite don't play the game that way. As Andrew breitbart said to podesta he is playing to win. The rule applies only if both sides follow them. And for the record no one has been charged so no one is presumed innocent . Do you understand how it works? step one: suspect is arrested, step two: his Miranda raights are read. No one is charged so no one is presumed innocent. That is the way the game is played but in the court of public opinion people have a right to form their own opinion about the facts and it is a FACT that frank winstead said comet ping was associated with rapes and murder.
Millennial_Falcon ago
If we push fake evidence, the court of public opinion will decide WE are full of shit. Need I say more?
Forgetmenot ago
I agree but it has to be investigated in order to be determined fake or not. Test everything but saying it's irrelevant is akin to labeling it fake news. It's important not to disregard facts, it's too early without more evidence to make judgements about winstead motivations. Don't you think?
Crensch ago
The impossible game.
Present unlimited false leads that people like @Forgetmenot will demand need to be investigated in order to bury the real lead needles in the proverbial haystack.
You need to watch yourself. This attitude of yours got you on the wrong side of something with me before. If I see this kind of bullshit argument again, I'll be labeling you as some kind of CTR/shill/COINTEL.
Stop wasting everyone's fucking time with UNPROVEN new (or old) links. Period.
@Millennial_Falcon
Forgetmenot ago
Crensch ago
I will respond to your stupid posts by actually calling you one of those things and outright dismissing whatever you've said with the conclusion I've come to. How does that sound to you?
Forgetmenot ago
I don't want to interact with you actually. Last time I cosidered just quitting voat and canceling my acct. you are that unpleasant. What do you mean: I need to watch myself? A threat? What do you mean by this? Then You also state: You will label me CTR? Is this because you disagree with my opinion?
Let me spell it out: I have not submitted the post I simply upvoated the post. Along with many other users that commented and upvoated. I also commented that I thought it was useful and why I thought it was useful. Not sure what triggered this reaction from you. But maybe a different mod or admin should way in. i really find dealing with you unpleasant. Last time you did not even introduce yourself as a mod to me now this time you are threatening me with a CTR label? Yet I thought you were CTR and asked you straight out. Which you never denied, nor did you ever confirm you were a mod. I had to figure out how to look it up. And even reach out to other mods. I am new to voat if you want to take my rights to upvoat for having an opinion that does not violate the rules, that is really strange although Reddit got that way. And I guess it only shows that pizzagate really is a threat and is on to something. I have not submitted a post, I simply upvoated and posted a comment that supported the value of the comment. This is too much drama from you, your bad words your threats and your labeling me as CTR. If @/Millennial_Falcon feels that I was insulting on a personal level or violated a a rule he or she is welcome to let me know. Not sure why you are jumping in, this is very unprofessional.
Crensch ago
If you're so stupid that you think forcing the impossible game onto PG users is helpful in some way, then you should.
Forgetmenot ago
Namecalling a user, making threats, belittling, you are harassing me please refrain from interacting with me if you want to involve an admin I welcome it. Right now I don't have time to try to figure out voat to report you. Leave me alone, you are very unprofessional and demeaning of anyone's opinion that you don't agree with.
Crensch ago
Eat a dick.
You can't report me for shit. Go back where you came from, because that kind of thinking doesn't work here.
You're too stupid to be taken as a serious user.
Forgetmenot ago
Lol! Ok you made me laugh.
Crensch ago
If you had the capacity to understand the situation, you'd be cringing at your own stupidity.
Forgetmenot ago
Ok u r probably right, a lot of this is way out of my league, I typically lurk and up voat and share information learned here to raise awareness. we all have a right to our opinion, I can respect that, and it does not offend me when you say eat a dick. In fact that came so out of left field it was funny, and well laughter is a great way to diffuse tension. Have a good one!
Forgetmenot ago
This is not my lead your getting laughable with the accusations.
Crensch ago
You keep pushing for the impossible game and pretending to be helpful. That's at best troll-like activity, at worst intentional forum COINTEL, and if neither of those, abject stupidity.