Okay guys, just got shown this video. It's a video "debunking" pizzagate. Thoughts? (pizzagate)

submitted ago by justiceforever

Here's the link https://youtu.be/2OrX0U4qwTM

He does a good job debunking what he covers, imo. A few things he missed of the top of my head:

"Hotard"

The sacrifice a chicken to moloch email

That email with the pic of the little girl holding the upside down star (sorry can't remember the exact email. It was after her dance recital)

The recent events with twittergate

The whole Madelyn Macan thing

Heavy breathing's performance at comet

The room with all the creepy #murder #killroom

Also do you remember that pic with the ninja turtles and it had the comment "whip me up a Haitian special"? Someone told me that wasn't real, that it was a troll after pizzagate already started. Can anyone confirm?

What else did he miss?

I'm posting this

  1. So we can get our facts straight

  2. So we can respond to these types of videos

  3. Because we should always be neutral and search for the truth

xeemee ago

The room with all the creepy #murder #killroom

are you referring to the small room with the silver (actually metal) walls? if so, that's a walk-in cooler - you can see the fan assembly on the right wall - i see nothing especially sinister with that

justiceforever ago

Agreed but then why the hashtags?

xeemee ago

because no one else realized it's a walk-in cooler?

justiceforever ago

So you're saying his Instagram friends didn't know what it was so they said it was a killroom?

xeemee ago

hey, wait a min - i didn't process fully what you just said - "... so they said it was a killroom?"

you mean that the friends of someone that was implicated in PG described the cooler as a kill-room?

if so, that is interesting

it is, in fact, a cooler, but obviously i do not know what purpose it was used for and it is certainly possible is was used to store bodies or body parts, fluids, etc.

xeemee ago

not necessarily because i don't know the history of the topic, or even where the image is actually from - i just saw it somewhere and it was linked to PG and described as a "kill room", or something similar

i recognized what it actually was immediately because i've seen many walk-in coolers (matter of fact, i'm sitting within a few hundred feet of one) - the tell-tale signs are metal walls (often stainless steel) and the refrigeration unit on the wall or ceiling - half the unit is inside and half outside (compressor, etc) - here's a similar one, except for the location of the fan box

justiceforever ago

I don't think anyone is disputing that it's a walk-in fridge. They're just saying the comments are weird.

xeemee ago

right - i can see that - but also, what is often stored in a cooler? meat - meat = kill-room - not a stretch at all if someone is being funny, but if in fact the pic is factually linked to someone implicated in PG, then, as i said, the whole thing could be more sinister

justiceforever ago

Yeah I see what you mean there.

xeemee ago

0:52 - "this will not be a debunking of the entire theory" .. video title: PizzaGate Debunked ... we'll, aren't we off to a great start :)

1:15 - 'handkerchief code' - no white color on the wikipedia page ... no, there isn't today, but there was on 8 November 2016 and it is referencing "Virginity" - white is also referenced in several previous versions and missing in others - in 2014 it is listed as symbolizing "Masturbation"

~1:30 - thinks "The realtor found a handkerchief (I think it has a map that seems pizza-related." sounds perfectly normal, except it doesn't when you consider the wider context of these emails and factor in "pizza" and all the other evidence - and what kind of map would be "pizza-related"? and what kind of pizza related map would be on a handkerchief? and why did she use the words "I think it has a map that seems pizza-related" instead of 'I think it has a map on it that seems pizza-related'? and why "seems pizza-related"? was it hard to tell? and why cc the email to [email protected] if she knew it was John's handkerchief? there is nothing at all about this exchange that makes sense to me, especially given the broader picture

you can't isolate a single piece of evidence when there are probably hundreds of supporting pieces and proclaim there's nothing unusual about it

~1:40 - says they talked allot, along with their colleagues, about going out for meals, "and in particular, going out for pizza", but concludes that the pizza references are perfectly benign - you can only ignore the multiple pizza references if you do not factor in the code words and disregard all of the other pieces of evidence - isolating the pizza references might be fine if we didn't already know that pedophilia is rampant in various large institutions, including government, long before PizzaGate, and we didn't see the 'fuck' reference on the bathroom wall at Comet, and we didn't see the creepy video of a party there, and... and,,, and,,, and,,,

2:20 - back to the handkerchief code - "there is no white here on the bottom" (referencing the wikipedia page) and "clearly white was added on the bottom - it's been fabricated" - it was added, yes, but not completely fabricated as pointed out previously in the page edit history

4:37 - "there's no proof anywhere of sources to support that white equals virginity or pedophilia" - well, if he's going to rely on wikipedia as a source, which he did, then the 'proof' he seeks is in the edit history that he didn't review throughly

7:45 - the arched-back sculpture - in essence he admits that the sculpture represents sick shit (discourse of madness, emotional disturbance, hysteria, mental illness, etc.) and makes the analogy that the sculpture is not so similar to how Jeffrey Dahmer posed his victim (arms are not folded in the sculpture, etc.), except on the very same page he is using for reference, he offers no explanation for the illustration by Charles Bell which shows the arms folded, finally concluding it has "nothing to do remotely with Jeffrey Dahmer or murder or pedophilia - nothing of the sort"

9:21 - i quit - don't know about anyone else, but i've seen and heard enough at this point that i had no interest in viewing the rest of the video - the good news is, i'd say in another lifetime or 2 he may develop the necessary analytical skills to earn his junior G-man badge

justiceforever ago

Nice!!

Might want to check that first link, I didn't see anything about white meaning virginity on there.

pizzaparallel ago

Ok, I'll concede that it makes more sense in that context. Not everything has to be related. I just think people should look into things as they arise. Thank you for the information.

sentryseven ago

If they had nothing to hide they wouldn't have changed logos and taken down paintings. And if he missed all you said above, he isn't paying attention. This is an ongoing investigation and there are bound to be some strawmen and low hanging fruit for a normie to munch on.

pizzathrowaway ago

The paintings came down several years ago, not because they had anything to hide.

Meta_Self ago

This guy goes for the low hanging fruit.

xeemee ago

i think he is a low hanging fruit

pizzaparallel ago

I think it's good to post things like this but the way the information is presented is not very effective imo.
I tried to watch it but so much time is spent (in a 34 minute video) simply scrolling through pictures and slowly reading captions, I couldn't even make it all the way through. It seems like he doesn't debunk as much as playdown the possible significance of various things.

Maybe I just don't have the attention span to sit through this ... sorry :\

In the interest of making the information more easily accessible, do you think you could summarize what points he debunks?

I understand that might be an unreasonable request given the length of the video. If that's too much, can you maybe comment on some of the points that stuck out to you as most significant?

xeemee ago

In the interest of making the information more easily accessible, do you think you could summarize what points he debunks?

like you, i also did not have the patience to sit through the whole thing, but only because i found several problems with his "logic" in the first 9 minutes

pizzaparallel ago

Well, the first time I tried to watch it, I realized how long it was and the pace was so slow that I doubted I could get through it. I actually found it easier to get through the whole thing when I was taking notes. He's an amateur so I cut him a little slack with the quality of the video. Some of his points are better than others though. Most of what he tries to "debunk" is curious information taken in a particularly speculative direction. For example, on the "chicken lover" picture, he focuses on the fact that it's a necklace and not a bracelet in the video AND also that even if it was a sex bracelet, yellow is not always defined as analingus. I wasn't aware that the picture was being taken in this direction in the first place. But again, he ignores the most damning information and focuses on the tangential information.

You make good arguments regarding the first 9 minutes.

lisa_doyle ago

He also spoke like he was very familiar with Podesta and Abramovic...He called her Marina. He didn't seem objective. He isn't a random person trying to give his honest opinion. He seemed very knowledgeable about the people, like he knew them.

xeemee ago

i thought that to be a possibility too but i didn't catch the reference to Marina - that's public knowledge though i assume (i don't know - haven't been really following this thing)

justiceforever ago

Honestly I had a lot of it playing in the background while I did chores. My ADD wasn't gonna let me sit there watching it, so I listened.

pizzaparallel ago

I tried to post this as an edit to my original comment but couldn't. Maybe it's too long.

EDIT: I caved and went through the video myself.

[] = My comments

Goal: Present a counter investigation and fact check. Show the opposite side of the pizzagate argument.

Investigation doesn't mean finding things that match your theory but to objectively look at evidence to see if it is reasonable.

Not a full debunking of the entire theory.

Suggests stepping back and seeing full picture with logic and reason.

Pizzagate Points of Interest Discussed:

  1. Did you leave a handkerchief email: Seems suspicious at first glance. People suggest might be code.

Counter point: Other emails reference these two often talk about going out for lunch, going to one anothers houses, going out for pizza. [Other emails not cited specifically to show this. I think most people are familiar with talking about going out for lunch and visiting each other. He doesn't even address the weird phrasing that seems so creepy. How does this context make the pizza related map thing make more sense?]

  1. Handkerchief code (White with Black Handkerchief implications) Black = S&M White = (not on original wikipedia image) virginity/pedophilia

Counter point: The swatch for white has been added to the original wikipedia image. Goes through various sources of what color codes mean. Most suggest that white means safe sex or masturbation. Therefore he must only be into s&m and safe sex or masturbation. [Odd that he still makes this conclusion after telling people not to jump to conclusions... I'm not convinced that the handkerchief necessarily means anything, however, considering the laws protecting children from pedophilia, why would people openly indicate that white means virginity? Virgins can be adults of course but it seems that there is also reason to avoid suspicions.]

  1. Tamera Luzzatto email: "We plan to heat the pool, so a swim is a possibility. Bonnie will be Uber service to transport Ruby, Emerson, and Maeve Luzzatto (11, 9, and almost 7) so you'll have some further entertainment, and they will be in that pool for sure."

Counter point: Luzzatto implying that her kids will be further entertainment because her kids are a handful and kids are crazy. [I considered this interpretation too, but the way she says it is still really strange. It's possible she just meant that her kids love swimming so they will "for sure" be in the pool. It's just so strange in the context she presents it while noting all the ages of the kids.]

  1. Tamera Luzzatto Blog: "Evelyn is growing up ... for a limited time only, you can spend some time with her online, raw and uncut"

Counter point: Blog is a raw and uncut look into Evie's life. Just a blog where you can see these children. No pedophilia here. Simply taken out of context.

[Maybe. Maybe not. This is another unverified conclusion. It is an interesting word choice at the very least. Raw and uncut are words used to describe pornography as well. Maybe it's an odd word choice. Maybe it's something more. This doesn't disprove anything.]

  1. Jimmy Comet Weird sculpture. Purported to be in pose of Dahmer's victim.

Counter point: Pose is not EXACTLY like Dahmer's victim. Common and note worthy art piece. "Literal and figurative suspension of a normative historical discourse of madness". Therefore nothing to do with murder or pedophilia or Dahmer. Just an edgy art piece.

[I never believed it meant anything. I just think it's a weird center piece for a person's home.]

  1. Image of John Podesta with 14 and fish on hand. Bandage and scars suggest blood rituals.

Counter point: No bandage to be found. Just patch of skin that looks discolored in photo. Common for older men to have scars on hands. Could be from anything. Says Podesta intends to have surgery on hand.

Evidence is easy to "disprove" with simple google search. 14 + Fish and the Osiris Myth can't be the case because the email talks about global initiative #14 about caring for oceans and life under water.

[I wasn't a huge believer of that theory to begin with but his google search doesn't actually disprove anything. I agree that it is more likely the email is in reference to the global goals in the email.]

  1. Cellphone Use Prohibited in La Boum Boum Room. La boum boum is slang for prostitution in Thailand.

Counter point: Brings up Washington Post article "With La Boum Boum Room D C Just Got A Lot Weirder". Insists that cell phone use is prohibited because there are shows going on. [Doesn't mention that it is called a pansexual paradise... but ok]

Late night event for adults and adult entertainment.

Why in kid-friendly restaurant? L'enfant cafe Bar is not in Comet Ping Pong.

[Fair enough. It still seems reasonable to wonder why a cafe with a name meaning "the child" in French is a pansexual paradise.]

  1. Chicken Lover instagram post with man holding young girl is suggestive and has yellow sex bracelet meaning analingus.

Counter Point: Necklace is not a sex bracelet [well yeah] Most sites suggest that yellow means hugging although one suggests analingus as alternative meaning. [This was not what I found disturbing about this post. For me it was the "chicken lover" part. He doesn't even mention this for some reason.]

  1. Picture of construction work at Comet pizza. Comet Pizza and neighbors have not filed a building permit in last three years. Creepy since it is known that there are underground tunnels in DC.

Counter point: There is a door with sunlight so it's not underground. Therefore, just renovation work. Looking at streetview it is clear that the front entrance is higher than the back entrance. So building might have underground walk-in basement Not sketchy. [Wouldn't they still need a building permit? I really have no idea but he didn't mention the building permits at all]

  1. James Alefantis is 49th most influential in DC. Is Pizza shop owner which is strange.

Counter point 1: Ex boyfriend of Brock so makes sense that he has political connections and fans. Just because they've broken up doesn't mean he lost his influence.

[Is Alefantis the only boyfriend of David Brock that is influential?]

Counter point 2: It's not so strange that he's a restaurant owner on there. There is at least one other restaurant guy. #41 is Jose Andres who is a "restaurateur". Therefore it totally makes sense. [I didn't think this was a big theory but ok]

  1. Rachel Chandler pictured with Bill Clinton at age 15. Now has pictures of random half-naked children on her tumbler and instagram.

Counter point: [Seriously, the most condescending part of the video] Most of the pictures on her tumblr and instagram now are not of half-naked children. Except maybe one.

[Was this always the case?]

  1. Comet Ping Pong Storefront - star and crescent symbols.

Counter Point: Internationally recognized symbol of Islam. Probably just a coincidence. Maybe just the style they are going with.

[I don't think the crescents and stars have much to do with anything. The way he explains it, it sounds like he thinks that Islam is the "style" they are going with. If he meant that the crescents and stars were a style they were going with then I can agree though.]

  1. Joe and Barack friendship bracelet with pizza charm.

Counter point: From a video of 5 things that are easier to do than voting. Or a video to show how easy it is to vote. Shows that kit happens to have pizza charms on box and not many to choose from. Biden is just goofy.

[I've never taken that information to mean anything so I can agree with him there.]

  1. Kim Noble's Art of sacrifice/rape

Counter point: On art page, there are some creepy ones but as a whole she also has other stuff including cubism, watercolor etc.

[He has nothing to say about the fact that other artists involved with the place also do artwork of children tied up. He doesn't even address any of the art from other artists. I think the artwork of the children tied up on the wall is much more creepy. Maybe these artists just did a few of these kinds of things ... but that doesn't make it better in my opinion.]

  1. Concerning pictures of children on instagram

Counter point: Look at pictures without assuming it implies pedophilia. Take a deep breath and remember that while it may look creepy, it's probably not.

Image of child tied up: The child is laughing/having a good time. Cute joke and must be taken out of context.

[Not convincing for me at all. The fact that the child seems to smiling does not mean that it's ok ...]

  1. Other weird sexual pictures geotagged

Counter point: Clearly a hot spot for gay men. A popular place for families to come eat. Being weird and being gay isn't a crime.

[Why is a family friendly place so overtly sexualized? I'm not saying that being gay or weird is a crime. But how do you have a place that is overtly sexual while being family and kid friendly?]

Conclusion: Do equal research. Don't find things that confirm theory. Look into contradictory theories. Do quick google searches. [Reasonable advice overall. The condescension in "do quick google searches" is annoying because he acts like all of this stuff is so blatantly obvious ... but it's not. Even with his "quick google searches" he wasn't able to disprove any points, just express skepticism in the claims.]

xeemee ago

I tried to post this as an edit to my original comment but couldn't. Maybe it's too long.

before posting anything, Ctrl+C it - there be bugs here :)

and if you run into a problem with posting a long post, copy it, then delete everything except a few words or whatever, then once it's posted, edit it and paste back the whole thing and save it

if you forget to copy before posting and there's a problem, you may be able to F5 it and hope for the best

justiceforever ago

Wow great analysis. You da real MVP.

You should comment that on his video! Idk if it would all fit, but still!

pizzaparallel ago

Thank you, I'm glad it can be helpful.

I'm not really comfortable posting it through an account on youtube but I don't mind if someone else wants to re-post it. Additionally, if anyone wants to fix the formatting on here so it's easier to read, please feel free. (I numbered to 16 originally but now it looks like I can only count to 1)

justiceforever ago

I'm also not comfortable using my youtube account lol. CALLING SOMEONE BRAVE, PLEASE