All I can tell you is I dated aphd in astrophysics. I ended up having to help her do a lot of shit someone thats an expert in the field shouldn't need help doing. She is a diversity quota spot just like this one
I doesn't detract from anything else she did. and I don't know what it was. but just poinitng out she did some simple stuff without claiming it was the best or putting it in context, is meanignless.
No, I just call bullshit when I see it. Every other fucking thing, I'm all over. Fuck (((them))), liberals can suck a circumcised woman's dick, etc, etc. Honk honk.
But no, I'm not going to toe the line on this issue just cause a bunch of mislead goats disagree with me.
The media got us back for trolling them about learning to code. This is their "fuck you story" to one up us. They make heros and villians. We just throw shit from our cages.
The dude that "did" most of the code also cucked out, saying that calling this out is sexist, and revealed that most of the code is from github and the hat he is a flaming faggot.
so he even cut major corners
Change the toolbar and font colour something anyone with a computer science degree can do? Jesus wept, I thought CS degrees would be hard, that sort of thing is grade A simple and can be taught to someone in a couple of minutes. I am self-taught in quite a few languages, including Assembly on a number of different platforms, but changing the font size? A five year old could do that...
I do however, agree with a number of posters who are saying that it doesn't seem like she is crowing about the achievements here, it is the press trying to show what all those pwetty wittle girlies can do in STEM
I like that phrase per below vaginal accomplishments. I am structural engineer and read extensively over bridge disaster of Florida and the media hype over all-female engineer team and after the collapse and killings then not a single nuther word. total blackout and to this day not one of them brought into court for manslaughter; https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/all-female-engineering-team-designed-built-fl-bridge-that-collapsed/ and if this were me a drinking smoking white male baptist then I would today be in prison. Right now today. Already convicted and key thrown away.
@deandg99 You created 0.00% of the code. I'm not saying you don't have a point here somewhere. But, where is your contribution? If you had created 0.27% of the code, you could be respected here. But, seeing as you did absolutely nothing, now you just sound like a bitch.
I am not capable of assessing what she actually added to an accurate extent. The point is that there is a respectable way to do things, and a perverted way.
Like when you are on a team of people that makes an amazing accomplishment, but instead of taking a picture of the accomplishment or your team, you take a picture of yourself and say "I did this". It is as simple as that, and doesn't even need to have the political and ideological agendas attached to it to make it reek like disingenuous story that it is.
Basically these assertions are idiotically wrong, completely wrong Not only are the claims in the meme flat-out incorrect, but Chael — as an openly gay man — is also part of an underrepresented demographic in his field.
“While I appreciate the congratulations on a result that I worked hard on for years, if you are congratulating me because you have a sexist vendetta against Katie, please go away and reconsider your priorities in life,” he tweeted.
According to Chael, He certainly didn’t write “850,000 lines of code,” a false number likely pulled from GitHub, a Web-based coding service. And while he was the primary author of one piece of software that worked on imaging the black hole, the team used multiple different approaches to avoid bias. His work was important, but Bouman’s was also vital as she helped stitch together all the teams
Bouman wrote on Facebook: “No one algorithm or person made this image, it required the amazing talent of a team of scientists from around the globe and years of hard work to develop the instrument, data processing, imaging methods, and analysis techniques that were necessary to pull off this seemingly impossible feat.”
Basically she has always given been sure to spread credit far and wide. She is the project lead, and deserves some credit as a true scientist.
It is obviously politically incorrect for a woman to have been the team lead and getting any credit.
Never mind how it plays into weird thinks like the Islamac agenda and the Incel Agenda that says that women should never leave the house, and should be locked up, treated like property, etc.
The astrophysicist guy contributed 850,000 LOC and was clearly by far the main guy writing this software. He's also been identified as the main person in some coverage.
Her contributions are fine. Some are trivial, others are not. Like all the contributors. She wasn't a slacker and she contributed about as much code as the others on the project, basically in the middle of people other than the top dude who far and away is obviously the main author of the software.
She didn't identify herself as the primary author or as the project lead. The media started claiming these things, which is a lie, to push a narrative. It's really misogynistic that the media did this to push such an easily disproved narrative because this female programmer, who as a competent developer, is getting a lot of flak for stuff she herself never claimed and also which she downplayed and refuted when asked outright. Leftist media basically decided to make false claims about her knowing that it would get her attacked so they could then report on the attacks as misogynist. Fortunately most people see through this ruse. The Fake News Media is fake, abusive, dangerous, hateful liars.
(Also I did not write "850,000 lines of code" -- many of those "lines" tracked by github are in model files. There are about 68,000 lines in the current software, and I don't care how many of those I personally authored)
He claims himself to be the main guy writing this software:
"I am the primary developer of the eht-imaging software library"
That statement is unambiguous. Also unambiguous is that he contributed 850,000 LOC to that software in commits and the project's git commit logs prove that is true. A bunch of those might be large files containing generated data, it's still part of the project's codebase that he himself contributed. How many lines he wrote by hand as opposed to contributed is a different matter. If 68,000 are non-blank non-data lines that is fine. Dr. Bouman can not be the primary developer given the nature of her 1500 or so lines contributed, some which are trivial, others not. Choel is the primary developer of the eht-imaging software library according to his own explicit claims and his claim is supported by the commit logs.
The main question is how many people can do that. Some coding tasks are mostly work. Others require leaps of insight that a given person literally can't force to happen in their lifetime.
Be careful even mentioning it if you're in someplace lost to critical thinking like Silly Contrived Valley. A professional acquaintance that works for a very well known .com is on double secret HR probation for just mentioning this.
This one s Really sad, here's why. She didn't say she did this, the media did. And if science does it's job they will reward those that contributed tho most. The damage has been done. No one will remember the correct person, cunts like AOC got to live off their PR a and profiled from it the media made it's money, the you girl still gets nothing but now shame. Is that really fair? This shit how needs to be punished, not the girl.
I don't agree with her accolades, I also don't agree with how politicians and the media got away with this lie.
She MAY not have asked for it although I doubt it but she sure as hell went along with it. Also even men who truly do deserve the bulk of the credit in a given success never fail to mention that it was a team effort even if only to secure future goodwill with people they know they may need. Like all women though she never gave a single thought to others and will expect them to be there when and if she needs them because that's what they've been taught will happen, but people only put up with so much shit even for potential pussy's sake.
I have not analyzed the code or this issue in depth and based on the surface level discussions, it seems like the woman's role in this project was exaggerated by a media that is desperate to highlight vaginal accomplishments.
But I would strongly suggest that lines of code written is a poor metric for productivity to be used by either side. Some of the hardest parts of a project could involve just a small percentage of the code. Some of the best developers out there might end up writing very little, but very important code for a project. Sometimes the best developers even shrink your codebase down in size and manage to find new abstractions and turn thousands of line of code into hundreds and contribute negative lines of code per day. Whatever the truth is, lines of code is a very poor way to accurately spell it out IMO.
It's even worse. This chick is the real deal. An outlier, like STEM Camille Paglia. She was the project lead. She had a TEDx talk about it and shit. She's got a professorship at Cal Tech and has her PhD from motherfucking MIT, which doesn't do the diversity quotas bullshit, which is why they beat Harvard in the prank war every year and use Harvard credits to pad their GPAs. She appears to be some flavor of this chick:
What's worse, she appears, in the actual quotes and statements she's made in interviews, to have tried valiantly to be a good project lead and share the credit with her team.
But the hack "journalists" won't let the story be about the science, or even let her talk about her team. They downplay her real accomplishments and make her into yet another magic princess story instead of a legitimate role model for the few valuable girls who have what it takes to make real contributions in STEM. "Absolutely honey, you can make scientific history. Step one is you go get your PhD from MIT."
These cunts are so used to pretending Rey is a real character, they don't even know what to do with a Mara Jade when one shows up.
If you scroll down (way down) you'll find her under "BHI Fellows"
She's not the lead. However...
This chick is the real deal.
You're absolutely right about that. She is undoubtedly very intelligent and works very hard. And I don't think it's her fault that the media are focused on her because it fits their narrative. She's probably not even aware it's happening. She gets a phone call or an email and she answers questions. She's probably assuming that other scientists on the project are also getting those calls. She probably has no idea that she's the only one the media cares about.
the hack "journalists" won't let the story be about the science
That would be the only narrative if they hadn't found a woman to talk about. If the team had been 100% white and asian men, the only thing we'd hear about is (a) the photo sucks and (b) the men are sexist. But because they found out a woman is involved, they've stopped shitting on the science and are only talking about the woman.
Yeah I don't really blame her as much, it's the media at fault not her.
Also does anyone have a link to the GitHub so I can look over the code? I posted yesterday but it got one upvoat. We could determine for sure who is most responsible, if it is any one person. Posting this here because I know it will get more eyes.
In early 1982, the Lisa software team was trying to buckle down for the big push to ship the software within the next six months. Some of the managers decided that it would be a good idea to track the progress of each individual engineer in terms of the amount of code that they wrote from week to week. They devised a form that each engineer was required to submit every Friday, which included a field for the number of lines of code that were written that week.
Bill Atkinson, the author of Quickdraw and the main user interface designer, who was by far the most important Lisa implementor, thought that lines of code was a silly measure of software productivity. He thought his goal was to write as small and fast a program as possible, and that the lines of code metric only encouraged writing sloppy, bloated, broken code.
He recently was working on optimizing Quickdraw's region calculation machinery, and had completely rewritten the region engine using a simpler, more general algorithm which, after some tweaking, made region operations almost six times faster. As a by-product, the rewrite also saved around 2,000 lines of code.
He was just putting the finishing touches on the optimization when it was time to fill out the management form for the first time. When he got to the lines of code part, he thought about it for a second, and then wrote in the number: -2000.
I'm not sure how the managers reacted to that, but I do know that after a couple more weeks, they stopped asking Bill to fill out the form, and he gladly complied
it was the seed algorithm region fill scanline pattent for B+W version for quickdraw that honored a "region" implemented in code prior to patent, unrolling is done of course with a initial jumo to remainder prior to decrementing loop in all optimized code but they dont remove those or add them to often but do of course use them for memmove(). apples memmove is better than any other at the time because it allowed OVERLAPPING memory regions for source and destination, something no libraries other than apples allowed in the era.
You are correct we are talking about ROM, it was pascal compiled code and hand written 68K assembler in a 64K rom library in a 128K ram computer, designed to be fitted for 4 MB of ram via soldering. soon models used 68K rom and then system ram to hold overflow code.
I remember disassembling CopyBits back in the day on 68K in my quest to optimize my toy graphics code. Even BlockMove had lots of clever things, especially when the source and destination had different mod-4 alignments, choosing to align the destination at a cost of an unaligned source.
Regions were some damn nice things to have at the time. So much of the Toolbox was simplified by being able to use them for masking drawing.
If you look through the software revisions she added thinks like an interface feature to change the font size, and integrated someone else's code dealing with the dataset.
Fine contributions, but certainly sophomoric in contrast with the bulk of the program.
There is no doubt she contrbuted. I think the argment is based on the idea of giving a junior member of the programming team credit for the rest.
Say the new Dodge Challenger had a woman engineer develop a new transmission concept. Then the media goes to say that woman engineer designed the entire car. It is clear in this example the media is distorting things, and to those of us who write code it's just as clear in the subject case.
What makes you think she was a junior member? She was the PHD student. She gave the TEDx talk, and her name was listed first on the whitepapers. She literally created the algorithm by which the information was processed, and the entire team helped to implement it in code.
...who wrote the whitepapers? may be she did and put her own name first, it happens a lot, regardless of the writer's contribution to the effort described in said whitepapers. Some people have good writing skills and the time and inclination to work on public relation efforts (like writing whitepapers).
She created the central sorting algo? That is not what I have read. I read she came in towards the end, and there is no mention anywhere of her writing any algorithms much less a 'central one. Where do you get your information?
You know how we talk about fake news?
'According to data provided publicly by GitHub, Bouman made 2,410 contributions to the over 900,000 lines of code required to create the first-of-its-kind black hole image, or 0.26 per cent. Bouman’s contributions also occurred toward the end of the work on the code.'
How about the TEDx talk she gave in 2016, where she describes the process, and specifically says it's her algorithm? She's been working on this for years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7n2rYt9wfU
Andrew may have written more code than her, but that doesn't mean he deserves more credit. Someone had to work out that math, and processes, and design the data flow. That's an incredible amount of work. I have been a software engineer for a decade, and can confidently tell you that lines of code committed is an absolutely terrible metric for measuring performance or project impact of an individual.
Bouman, Katherine L., Michael D. Johnson, Daniel Zoran, Vincent L. Fish, Sheperd S. Doeleman, and William T. Freeman. "Computational Imaging for VLBI Image Reconstruction." 2016 IEEE Conference on Computer Vision and Pattern Recognition (June 2016).
The Event Horizon Telescope Collaboration, Kazunori Akiyama1,2,3,4, Antxon Alberdi5, Walter Alef6, Keiichi Asada7, Rebecca Azulay8,9,6, Anne-Kathrin Baczko6, David Ball10, Mislav Baloković4,11, John Barrett2, Dan Bintley12, Lindy Blackburn4,11, Wilfred Boland13, Katherine L. Bouman4,11,14, Geoffrey C. Bower15, Michael Bremer16, Christiaan D. Brinkerink17, Roger Brissenden4,11, Silke Britzen6, Avery E. Broderick18,19,20, Dominique Broguiere16, Thomas Bronzwaer17, Do-Young Byun21,22, John E. Carlstrom23,24,25,26, Andrew Chael4,11, Chi-kwan Chan10,27, Shami Chatterjee28, Koushik Chatterjee29, Ming-Tang Chen15, Yongjun Chen (陈永军)30,31, Ilje Cho21,22, Pierre Christian10,11, John E. Conway32, James M. Cordes28, Geoffrey B. Crew2, Yuzhu Cui33,34, Jordy Davelaar17, Mariafelicia De Laurentis35,36,37, Roger Deane38,39, Jessica Dempsey12, Gregory Desvignes6, Jason Dexter40, Sheperd S. Doeleman4,11, Ralph P. Eatough6, Heino Falcke17, Vincent L. Fish2, Ed Fomalont1, Raquel Fraga-Encinas17, Per Friberg12, Christian M. Fromm36, José L. Gómez5, Peter Galison4,41,42, Charles F. Gammie43,44, Roberto García16, Olivier Gentaz16, Boris Georgiev19, Ciriaco Goddi17,45, Roman Gold36, Minfeng Gu (顾敏峰)30,46, Mark Gurwell11, Kazuhiro Hada33,34, Michael H. Hecht2, Ronald Hesper47, Luis C. Ho (何子山)48,49, Paul Ho7, Mareki Honma33,34, Chih-Wei L. Huang7, Lei Huang (黄磊)30,46, David H. Hughes50, Shiro Ikeda3,51,52,53, Makoto Inoue7, Sara Issaoun17, David J. James4,11, Buell T. Jannuzi10, Michael Janssen17, Britton Jeter19,20, Wu Jiang (江悟)30, Michael D. Johnson4,11, Svetlana Jorstad54,55, Taehyun Jung21,22, Mansour Karami18,19, Ramesh Karuppusamy6, Tomohisa Kawashima3, Garrett K. Keating11, Mark Kettenis56, Jae-Young Kim6, Junhan Kim10, Jongsoo Kim21, Motoki Kino3,57, Jun Yi Koay7, Patrick M. Koch7, Shoko Koyama7, Michael Kramer6, Carsten Kramer16, Thomas P. Krichbaum6, Cheng-Yu Kuo58, Tod R. Lauer59, Sang-Sung Lee21, Yan-Rong Li (李彦荣)60, Zhiyuan Li (李志远)61,62, Michael Lindqvist32, Kuo Liu6, Elisabetta Liuzzo63, Wen-Ping Lo7,64, Andrei P. Lobanov6, Laurent Loinard65,66, Colin Lonsdale2, Ru-Sen Lu (路如森)30,6, Nicholas R. MacDonald6, Jirong Mao (毛基荣)67,68,69, Sera Markoff29,70, Daniel P. Marrone10, Alan P. Marscher54, Iván Martí-Vidal32,71, Satoki Matsushita7, Lynn D. Matthews2, Lia Medeiros10,72, Karl M. Menten6, Yosuke Mizuno36, Izumi Mizuno12, James M. Moran4,11, Kotaro Moriyama33,2, Monika Moscibrodzka17, Cornelia Müller6,17, Hiroshi Nagai3,34, Neil M. Nagar73, Masanori Nakamura7, Ramesh Narayan4,11, Gopal Narayanan74, Iniyan Natarajan39, Roberto Neri16, Chunchong Ni19,20, Aristeidis Noutsos6, Hiroki Okino33,75, Héctor Olivares36, Gisela N. Ortiz-León6, Tomoaki Oyama33, Feryal Özel10, Daniel C. M. Palumbo4,11, Nimesh Patel11, Ue-Li Pen18,76,77,78, Dominic W. Pesce4,11, Vincent Piétu16, Richard Plambeck79, Aleksandar PopStefanija74, Oliver Porth36,29, Ben Prather43, Jorge A. Preciado-López18, Dimitrios Psaltis10, Hung-Yi Pu18, Venkatessh Ramakrishnan73, Ramprasad Rao15, Mark G. Rawlings12, Alexander W. Raymond4,11, Luciano Rezzolla36, Bart Ripperda36, Freek Roelofs17, Alan Rogers2, Eduardo Ros6, Mel Rose10, Arash Roshanineshat10, Helge Rottmann6, Alan L. Roy6, Chet Ruszczyk2, Benjamin R. Ryan80,81, Kazi L. J. Rygl63, Salvador Sánchez82, David Sánchez-Arguelles50,83, Mahito Sasada33,84, Tuomas Savolainen6,85,86, F. Peter Schloerb74, Karl-Friedrich Schuster16, Lijing Shao6,49, Zhiqiang Shen (沈志强)30,31, Des Small56, Bong Won Sohn21,22,87, Jason SooHoo2, Fumie Tazaki33, Paul Tiede18,19, Remo P. J. Tilanus17,45,88, Michael Titus2, Kenji Toma89,90, Pablo Torne6,82, Tyler Trent10, Sascha Trippe91, Shuichiro Tsuda33, Ilse van Bemmel56, Huib Jan van Langevelde56,92, Daniel R. van Rossum17, Jan Wagner6, John Wardle93, Jonathan Weintroub4,11, Norbert Wex6, Robert Wharton6, Maciek Wielgus4,11, George N. Wong43, Qingwen Wu (吴庆文)94, André Young17, Ken Young11, Ziri Younsi95,36, Feng Yuan (袁峰)30,46,96, Ye-Fei Yuan (袁业飞)97, J. Anton Zensus6, Guangyao Zhao21, Shan-Shan Zhao17,61, Ziyan Zhu42, Roger Cappallo2, Joseph R. Farah11,98,4, Thomas W. Folkers10, Zheng Meyer-Zhao7,99, Daniel Michalik100,101, Andrew Nadolski44, Hiroaki Nishioka7, Nicolas Pradel7, Rurik A. Primiani11,102, Kamal Souccar74, Laura Vertatschitsch11,102, and Paul Yamaguchi11
You posted a giant list of every person on the project, from every organization involved. Obviously it's alphabetical. I cited a paper specifically about the imaging process, which highlights my point that she was a primary contributor, and it was largely her algorithm.
She gave the TEDx talk, and her name was listed first on the whitepapers. She literally created the algorithm by which the information was processed, and the entire team helped to implement it in code.
Would you give less credit to Einstein because he merely derived the equations that explain the universe, and give more credit to someone who put those equations into a calculator for you to use them? It's silly.
And to address your other question, the guy who wrote "850k lines" is even saying that's a ridiculous measure of merit. He says there's only realistically 68k lines of real code in the project, and the other lines are data models and documentation.
Bouman herself says that not one algorithm or person is responsible for the success of the team, which is quite obvious, but they certainly did use her work.
While she led the development of an algorithm to take a picture of a black hole, an effort that was the subject of a TED Talk she gave in 2016, her colleagues said that technique was not ultimately used to create this particular image.
Haha all good. Seeing all the details makes me wonder why they all had a problem with what you said. I mean, I didn't read anything about it, but you gave a good explanation as to why she gets most of the credit.
Granted, I do see that there may be an agenda about it. I don't care enough to read though, so what does that matter?
Would you give less credit to Einstein because he merely derived the equations that explain the universe, and give more credit to someone who put those equations into a calculator for you to use them? It's silly.
I don't think you know what Einstein's work was, you're just reaching for the name that means "smart".
I don't think you know what pedantic means either.
I think you just reach for the most impactful word you can find and assume it'll work for you.
What your analogy demonstrates is that you have no idea what you're talking about. Equations like the ones Einstein found are different than the equations you put into a calculator. No one's out there solving for the Ricci curvature tensor on a TI-86.
At this point I don't think you could understand it at a level deeper than loc, though I'd bet you claim to.
She reviewed 3 PRs. That's not a team leader.
She didn't check in ANYTHING until the last year of the project. That's not a team leader.
If her job was to "just provide the idea while someone else does implementation": first off that's not really how it works outside of bad craigslist job posts, second off why isn't she reviewing more PRs if she's in a delegation role, third off why is she checking in other people's code? That doesn't make any sense at all. If you can pack up the code and send it across the internet, why not just check it into github?
Are you trying to do satire? That sounds like satire.
And who is achael because that account dominates the page you linked.
Look, if you're saying LoC is a poor measure then the only other options for measuring contribution require more thorough understanding of the codebase, which I think is going to be hard for you - it's not possible for someone to learn something while they're in the middle of pretending they already know it.
A few things. First of all, I am normally skeptical regarding these types of things. I absolutely think white males are shortchanged in many respects, but I don't think this is one. Additionally, if you'd like to go down this road of if grokking the code, I'm game. Software engineering has been my career for 10 years now, and I'm a mathematics enthusiast. That being said, implementations of an algorithm in a codebase do not inherently mean that the same person was the creator of that logic. I implemented RC4 in Python and Java yesterday, but I didn't invent the algorithm.
...most of the time, yep; unless your advisor happens to not be a dick (mine was really cool about this - it helped that he had plenty of his own legit published papers not to care about padding numbers) and it varies from field to field (in some disciplines, authors are listed alphabetically, and everybody in the team down to the janitors get their name on every papers - pretty obvious when you read the credits / lists of authors).
She deserves credit for her works, absolutely. So does everyone who contributed, credit where credit is due. I don't know shit and I know the number of lines of code has little to do with it overall contributions. This was definitely a narrative push, and I would guess she's just caught in the middle.
I already have one, why would I want one that some other dude put his dick in? The boss gets credit for running the company, and the secretary should get credit for running to get coffee is all I was saying.
They were pretty specific in saying the was a Computer Scientist, and she contributed "the algorithm", which would certainly be in her domain. They didn't say how much collaboration there was in producing said algorithm. Certainly the code writers would know.
As far as 'the algorithm' - it is a word that know nothing journalists use to seem informed.
Between me typing this into my phone and you receiving it and rendering it on your screen, tens of thousands of 'algorithms' have come into play. It is a misused/overused word which, like many things, means very little when coming out of the mouth of a journalist.
Oh, right for sure the media used her only because "she". That she was a computer scientist and makes algorithms was incidental, and probably overplayed.
i wouldn't know, I code my own algorithms. I don't depend on someone else to do it for me. I have no idea how they structure their teams, so I can't judge what went on, only speculate.
skruf ago
Trivial whitespace changes?
speedisavirus ago
All I can tell you is I dated aphd in astrophysics. I ended up having to help her do a lot of shit someone thats an expert in the field shouldn't need help doing. She is a diversity quota spot just like this one
ForTheUltimate ago
I doesn't detract from anything else she did. and I don't know what it was. but just poinitng out she did some simple stuff without claiming it was the best or putting it in context, is meanignless.
NiklausTheNaked ago
No, I just call bullshit when I see it. Every other fucking thing, I'm all over. Fuck (((them))), liberals can suck a circumcised woman's dick, etc, etc. Honk honk.
But no, I'm not going to toe the line on this issue just cause a bunch of mislead goats disagree with me.
Lavender7 ago
The media got us back for trolling them about learning to code. This is their "fuck you story" to one up us. They make heros and villians. We just throw shit from our cages.
IndigoElectric ago
It's too late. I'm sure Hollywood is already writing the script for Hidden Figures 2: Electric Boogaloo
Aprioned ago
23,400 Lines, that's even less than the 50K lines I though it was originally, too bad the actual author is a cuck.
PeacefulAssassin ago
The dude that "did" most of the code also cucked out, saying that calling this out is sexist, and revealed that most of the code is from github and the hat he is a flaming faggot. so he even cut major corners
EpiPendemic ago
Everything is from github the secret is getting out tools are making it so anyone can code.
2_scoops_vanilla ago
It's worse than that. Any woman is going to be able make a picture of a black hole. Soon there will be no place for men in tomorrows new world.
Rabid-Patriot ago
Get back in the kitchen
Stalins_bedpan ago
But guys, wait! She's totally backing off the fame and pointing out the talented coders who did the real work... Oh wait, she's NOT!
Typical female kike.
She should start a gaming company.
chubsta ago
Change the toolbar and font colour something anyone with a computer science degree can do? Jesus wept, I thought CS degrees would be hard, that sort of thing is grade A simple and can be taught to someone in a couple of minutes. I am self-taught in quite a few languages, including Assembly on a number of different platforms, but changing the font size? A five year old could do that...
I do however, agree with a number of posters who are saying that it doesn't seem like she is crowing about the achievements here, it is the press trying to show what all those pwetty wittle girlies can do in STEM
msoltyspl ago
It's beyond infuriating. And anyone can see that with simple "git log -u" - both the amount she contributed and the kind.
Of course there remains the question - what else did she do exactly.
KEVDOG77 ago
Ah, you talk like a fag, and your shit's all retarded.
Eddy261153 ago
Am I alone in being totally underwhelmed by this news about a black hole?.
Zoldam ago
Nope
thomastheglassexpert ago
I like that phrase per below vaginal accomplishments. I am structural engineer and read extensively over bridge disaster of Florida and the media hype over all-female engineer team and after the collapse and killings then not a single nuther word. total blackout and to this day not one of them brought into court for manslaughter; https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/all-female-engineering-team-designed-built-fl-bridge-that-collapsed/ and if this were me a drinking smoking white male baptist then I would today be in prison. Right now today. Already convicted and key thrown away.
Master_Foo ago
@deandg99 You created 0.00% of the code. I'm not saying you don't have a point here somewhere. But, where is your contribution? If you had created 0.27% of the code, you could be respected here. But, seeing as you did absolutely nothing, now you just sound like a bitch.
trevmon ago
this is to distract from fact that neeing to digitally create the image shows it's fake and not a real black hole seen thru a telescope
Crashmarik ago
I really feel sorry for Andrew Chael imagine being forced to write things like this
You can see the guy just sweating bullets
iLuvJews ago
He learned from Matt Taylor's witch hunt.
memeticRevolution ago
I am not capable of assessing what she actually added to an accurate extent. The point is that there is a respectable way to do things, and a perverted way.
Like when you are on a team of people that makes an amazing accomplishment, but instead of taking a picture of the accomplishment or your team, you take a picture of yourself and say "I did this". It is as simple as that, and doesn't even need to have the political and ideological agendas attached to it to make it reek like disingenuous story that it is.
Kannibal ago
Andrew Chael from the EHT project had a few words on his own and Dr Katie Bouman's contribution to this project via twitter
https://imgur.com/gallery/dq8pnjK
https://twitter.com/thisgreyspirit/status/1116518544961830918
Basically these assertions are idiotically wrong, completely wrong Not only are the claims in the meme flat-out incorrect, but Chael — as an openly gay man — is also part of an underrepresented demographic in his field.
“While I appreciate the congratulations on a result that I worked hard on for years, if you are congratulating me because you have a sexist vendetta against Katie, please go away and reconsider your priorities in life,” he tweeted.
According to Chael, He certainly didn’t write “850,000 lines of code,” a false number likely pulled from GitHub, a Web-based coding service. And while he was the primary author of one piece of software that worked on imaging the black hole, the team used multiple different approaches to avoid bias. His work was important, but Bouman’s was also vital as she helped stitch together all the teams
Bouman wrote on Facebook: “No one algorithm or person made this image, it required the amazing talent of a team of scientists from around the globe and years of hard work to develop the instrument, data processing, imaging methods, and analysis techniques that were necessary to pull off this seemingly impossible feat.”
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10213326021042929&set=a.10211451091290857&type=3&theater
Basically she has always given been sure to spread credit far and wide. She is the project lead, and deserves some credit as a true scientist.
It is obviously politically incorrect for a woman to have been the team lead and getting any credit.
Never mind how it plays into weird thinks like the Islamac agenda and the Incel Agenda that says that women should never leave the house, and should be locked up, treated like property, etc.
some of you guys are idiots
HeavyBeefCurtain ago
Alhambra ago
2% does .2%
JimSoddell ago
The astrophysicist guy contributed 850,000 LOC and was clearly by far the main guy writing this software. He's also been identified as the main person in some coverage.
Her contributions are fine. Some are trivial, others are not. Like all the contributors. She wasn't a slacker and she contributed about as much code as the others on the project, basically in the middle of people other than the top dude who far and away is obviously the main author of the software.
She didn't identify herself as the primary author or as the project lead. The media started claiming these things, which is a lie, to push a narrative. It's really misogynistic that the media did this to push such an easily disproved narrative because this female programmer, who as a competent developer, is getting a lot of flak for stuff she herself never claimed and also which she downplayed and refuted when asked outright. Leftist media basically decided to make false claims about her knowing that it would get her attacked so they could then report on the attacks as misogynist. Fortunately most people see through this ruse. The Fake News Media is fake, abusive, dangerous, hateful liars.
Kannibal ago
except the coder in question says he didn't
https://twitter.com/thisgreyspirit/status/1116519313488470017
(Also I did not write "850,000 lines of code" -- many of those "lines" tracked by github are in model files. There are about 68,000 lines in the current software, and I don't care how many of those I personally authored)
JimSoddell ago
He claims himself to be the main guy writing this software:
That statement is unambiguous. Also unambiguous is that he contributed 850,000 LOC to that software in commits and the project's git commit logs prove that is true. A bunch of those might be large files containing generated data, it's still part of the project's codebase that he himself contributed. How many lines he wrote by hand as opposed to contributed is a different matter. If 68,000 are non-blank non-data lines that is fine. Dr. Bouman can not be the primary developer given the nature of her 1500 or so lines contributed, some which are trivial, others not. Choel is the primary developer of the eht-imaging software library according to his own explicit claims and his claim is supported by the commit logs.
trevmon ago
likely lied cuz if not he real be metooed and lose his career
Kannibal ago
Because women are never good at math, right?
trevmon ago
right
Kannibal ago
boy do you have a lot to learn
consider the women who were employed in the mathematical work of breaking German Codes during WWII
https://www.theweek.co.uk/98090/lady-trumpington-dies-who-were-the-women-of-bletchley-park
Those "stupid" women were smart enough to beat the Germans. or else the Germans were not very smart.
trevmon ago
FAKE NEWS
prairie ago
The main question is how many people can do that. Some coding tasks are mostly work. Others require leaps of insight that a given person literally can't force to happen in their lifetime.
CaptnObvius ago
men are bad, especially orange ones.
DHmountainbiking ago
She gets all the credit because she has a hole
NiklausTheNaked ago
How many commits did you actually read? She added a lot of complex math as well.
Wiserman ago
Maybe that small % of code was the most important part. Don't fucking act like you know anything about black holes, unless you know.
trevmon ago
oh shit you just lit them all up
LegalTDImmigrant ago
That's enough of a percentage to make you a Native American Indian
bloodguard ago
Be careful even mentioning it if you're in someplace lost to critical thinking like Silly Contrived Valley. A professional acquaintance that works for a very well known .com is on double secret HR probation for just mentioning this.
Pick your battles.
Civil_Warrior ago
And that was copy pasta
roznak ago
Don't forget the teams that went to the coldest place on Earth several times to install the needed hardware.
Civil_Warrior ago
Toxic masculinity in action. ☢️☢️☢️
GreyGears ago
Keep in mind : not only she is a woman, she is also jewish. Now you know why the push to make her "the new (((Einstein)))" was so big.
And if you need proof on how minor her contribution was, the algorithm is public and you can see every participant work in detail here : https://github.com/achael/eht-imaging/graphs/contributors
jthun2 ago
Yep, I bet most of the media types pushing this claim are also Jews. It's the way they work.
Acerphoon ago
Of course. The tribe helps the other tribe members. It's just how it is.
Jews are tribal by nature.
4n0n3m0u5e ago
Unity is strength, diversity is weakness
MDE_Refugee ago
Everyone is, it's just whites aren't allowed to be.
BentAxel ago
This one s Really sad, here's why. She didn't say she did this, the media did. And if science does it's job they will reward those that contributed tho most. The damage has been done. No one will remember the correct person, cunts like AOC got to live off their PR a and profiled from it the media made it's money, the you girl still gets nothing but now shame. Is that really fair? This shit how needs to be punished, not the girl.
I don't agree with her accolades, I also don't agree with how politicians and the media got away with this lie.
MDE_Refugee ago
She's a jew and is probably eating this up, her people are giving her fame. Why feel sorry for her?
BentAxel ago
Because if it were me, I would be afraid to leave my house in shame. The wouldn't be enough apologies.
not_saying_a_thing ago
Jews don't understand shame like normal people do.
12angrymen ago
She MAY not have asked for it although I doubt it but she sure as hell went along with it. Also even men who truly do deserve the bulk of the credit in a given success never fail to mention that it was a team effort even if only to secure future goodwill with people they know they may need. Like all women though she never gave a single thought to others and will expect them to be there when and if she needs them because that's what they've been taught will happen, but people only put up with so much shit even for potential pussy's sake.
Durm ago
Hmmmm
https://voat.co/v/science/3152008/17960035/10#17960035
ardvarcus ago
She contributed. She made the coffee.
SIayfire122 ago
Did she at least write code to automate the coffee maker or did she do it like an intern?
lord_nougat ago
ReadPastHeadlines ago
The coffee is the most important aspect of coding. Next is either tobacco or nail biting, otherwise insanity will take over.
FridayJones ago
Insanity took over during selection of curriculum obviously.
Gravspeed ago
Can confirm
zit ago
REPEAT of yesterdays huge thread on : https://voat.co/v/science/3152008
Durm ago
Hmmmm
https://voat.co/v/science/3152008/17960035/10#17960035
zit ago
correct! much or "her code" was written by others she merely dropped in.
Durm ago
I guess that makes it even worse, or lower.
cdglow ago
I have not analyzed the code or this issue in depth and based on the surface level discussions, it seems like the woman's role in this project was exaggerated by a media that is desperate to highlight vaginal accomplishments.
But I would strongly suggest that lines of code written is a poor metric for productivity to be used by either side. Some of the hardest parts of a project could involve just a small percentage of the code. Some of the best developers out there might end up writing very little, but very important code for a project. Sometimes the best developers even shrink your codebase down in size and manage to find new abstractions and turn thousands of line of code into hundreds and contribute negative lines of code per day. Whatever the truth is, lines of code is a very poor way to accurately spell it out IMO.
speedisavirus ago
Not when you are talking orders of magnitude this large
PoundMe2 ago
he worked on the project for years, she worked on it for months. at least thats what the data says.
i went off the commits cause the massive disparity between him and the others led me to believe most of his code were just lines of data.
WordCorrector ago
vaginalfront holeFixed that for you.
zit ago
I forgot all about the Left's attempt to make "front hole" a thing in 2018! HAH!
Adminstrater ago
Even misogynists don't treat women as badly as the left does.
rektumsempra ago
Let the guy who wrote the other 99.74% say she deserved most of the credit. I'll believe him.
cdglow ago
Sadly, you can't really take his word for it. If he diminishes her contribution (even if it's 100% true) he'll be drummed out of civil society.
parrygrin ago
It's even worse. This chick is the real deal. An outlier, like STEM Camille Paglia. She was the project lead. She had a TEDx talk about it and shit. She's got a professorship at Cal Tech and has her PhD from motherfucking MIT, which doesn't do the diversity quotas bullshit, which is why they beat Harvard in the prank war every year and use Harvard credits to pad their GPAs. She appears to be some flavor of this chick:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3YnsDAT8SaY
What's worse, she appears, in the actual quotes and statements she's made in interviews, to have tried valiantly to be a good project lead and share the credit with her team.
But the hack "journalists" won't let the story be about the science, or even let her talk about her team. They downplay her real accomplishments and make her into yet another magic princess story instead of a legitimate role model for the few valuable girls who have what it takes to make real contributions in STEM. "Absolutely honey, you can make scientific history. Step one is you go get your PhD from MIT."
These cunts are so used to pretending Rey is a real character, they don't even know what to do with a Mara Jade when one shows up.
vonclausewitz ago
No, I don't think she was. Here are the people involved: https://bhi.fas.harvard.edu/our-people
If you scroll down (way down) you'll find her under "BHI Fellows"
She's not the lead. However...
You're absolutely right about that. She is undoubtedly very intelligent and works very hard. And I don't think it's her fault that the media are focused on her because it fits their narrative. She's probably not even aware it's happening. She gets a phone call or an email and she answers questions. She's probably assuming that other scientists on the project are also getting those calls. She probably has no idea that she's the only one the media cares about.
It's even worse than that! The media came right out of the gate shitting on the science! Check this out: https://slate.com/technology/2019/04/black-hole-photo-just-isnt-very-good.html
That would be the only narrative if they hadn't found a woman to talk about. If the team had been 100% white and asian men, the only thing we'd hear about is (a) the photo sucks and (b) the men are sexist. But because they found out a woman is involved, they've stopped shitting on the science and are only talking about the woman.
ForTheUltimate ago
sad story for her I guess.
CameraCode0 ago
Yeah I don't really blame her as much, it's the media at fault not her.
Also does anyone have a link to the GitHub so I can look over the code? I posted yesterday but it got one upvoat. We could determine for sure who is most responsible, if it is any one person. Posting this here because I know it will get more eyes.
o0shad0o ago
https://github.com/achael/eht-imaging/commits?author=klbouman *
CameraCode0 ago
Thanks, I didn't realize this was the GitHub for the project, I thought it was just a module they used.
Gingercuntfirecrotch ago
In early 1982, the Lisa software team was trying to buckle down for the big push to ship the software within the next six months. Some of the managers decided that it would be a good idea to track the progress of each individual engineer in terms of the amount of code that they wrote from week to week. They devised a form that each engineer was required to submit every Friday, which included a field for the number of lines of code that were written that week.
Bill Atkinson, the author of Quickdraw and the main user interface designer, who was by far the most important Lisa implementor, thought that lines of code was a silly measure of software productivity. He thought his goal was to write as small and fast a program as possible, and that the lines of code metric only encouraged writing sloppy, bloated, broken code.
He recently was working on optimizing Quickdraw's region calculation machinery, and had completely rewritten the region engine using a simpler, more general algorithm which, after some tweaking, made region operations almost six times faster. As a by-product, the rewrite also saved around 2,000 lines of code.
He was just putting the finishing touches on the optimization when it was time to fill out the management form for the first time. When he got to the lines of code part, he thought about it for a second, and then wrote in the number: -2000.
I'm not sure how the managers reacted to that, but I do know that after a couple more weeks, they stopped asking Bill to fill out the form, and he gladly complied
Source: https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Negative_2000_Lines_Of_Code.txt
Adminstrater ago
Oh fuck, that's exactly what I was going to post. Great internet lore at it's best!
speedisavirus ago
That's fine. But when the difference is of this magnitude this doesn't explain it
prairie ago
He could have just unrolled a lot of pixel blitting loops. "How much of the ROM would you like these to take?"
zit ago
it was the seed algorithm region fill scanline pattent for B+W version for quickdraw that honored a "region" implemented in code prior to patent, unrolling is done of course with a initial jumo to remainder prior to decrementing loop in all optimized code but they dont remove those or add them to often but do of course use them for memmove(). apples memmove is better than any other at the time because it allowed OVERLAPPING memory regions for source and destination, something no libraries other than apples allowed in the era.
You are correct we are talking about ROM, it was pascal compiled code and hand written 68K assembler in a 64K rom library in a 128K ram computer, designed to be fitted for 4 MB of ram via soldering. soon models used 68K rom and then system ram to hold overflow code.
prairie ago
I remember disassembling CopyBits back in the day on 68K in my quest to optimize my toy graphics code. Even BlockMove had lots of clever things, especially when the source and destination had different mod-4 alignments, choosing to align the destination at a cost of an unaligned source.
Regions were some damn nice things to have at the time. So much of the Toolbox was simplified by being able to use them for masking drawing.
Hellboar ago
If you look through the software revisions she added thinks like an interface feature to change the font size, and integrated someone else's code dealing with the dataset.
Fine contributions, but certainly sophomoric in contrast with the bulk of the program.
NiklausTheNaked ago
How many commits did you read? She added a lot of complex math as well.
o0shad0o ago
https://github.com/achael/eht-imaging/commits?author=klbouman
NiklausTheNaked ago
She also committed under another username, and those commits will not be listed via your link. See an example from 2016, here: https://github.com/achael/eht-imaging/commits/master?after=7b8b8d5e014a19a078a82dcb897f0ffb9fb00177+1539
o0shad0o ago
There ought to be a way to filter for that...
NiklausTheNaked ago
https://voat.co/v/news/3154877/17990032
Hellboar ago
There is no doubt she contrbuted. I think the argment is based on the idea of giving a junior member of the programming team credit for the rest.
Say the new Dodge Challenger had a woman engineer develop a new transmission concept. Then the media goes to say that woman engineer designed the entire car. It is clear in this example the media is distorting things, and to those of us who write code it's just as clear in the subject case.
NiklausTheNaked ago
What makes you think she was a junior member? She was the PHD student. She gave the TEDx talk, and her name was listed first on the whitepapers. She literally created the algorithm by which the information was processed, and the entire team helped to implement it in code.
speedisavirus ago
She did not lead the team, for starters
NiklausTheNaked ago
Then give me a source. Who was the lead? It was her algorithm, and she led the team responsible for the development of the image processing.
Gargilius ago
...who wrote the whitepapers? may be she did and put her own name first, it happens a lot, regardless of the writer's contribution to the effort described in said whitepapers. Some people have good writing skills and the time and inclination to work on public relation efforts (like writing whitepapers).
NiklausTheNaked ago
How about this 2016 source directly from MIT that says she lead the development of the algorithm?
http://news.mit.edu/2016/method-image-black-holes-0606
Hellboar ago
She created the central sorting algo? That is not what I have read. I read she came in towards the end, and there is no mention anywhere of her writing any algorithms much less a 'central one. Where do you get your information?
You know how we talk about fake news?
'According to data provided publicly by GitHub, Bouman made 2,410 contributions to the over 900,000 lines of code required to create the first-of-its-kind black hole image, or 0.26 per cent. Bouman’s contributions also occurred toward the end of the work on the code.'
NiklausTheNaked ago
How about the TEDx talk she gave in 2016, where she describes the process, and specifically says it's her algorithm? She's been working on this for years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7n2rYt9wfU
Also, the guy who wrote "850k lines" of code admits that most of that code was data models, and that there are only about 68k lines of actual code in the project: https://twitter.com/thisgreyspirit/status/1116518544961830918
How about the white paper, wherein her name is first? https://dspace.mit.edu/openaccess-disseminate/1721.1/103077
Andrew may have written more code than her, but that doesn't mean he deserves more credit. Someone had to work out that math, and processes, and design the data flow. That's an incredible amount of work. I have been a software engineer for a decade, and can confidently tell you that lines of code committed is an absolutely terrible metric for measuring performance or project impact of an individual.
Hellboar ago
Citations are in alphabetical order for exactly this reason, btw.
NiklausTheNaked ago
Did you even read the citations in that document? Top of the page. Definitely not alphabetical. She's listed first.
Hellboar ago
It is alphabetical by last name. You people are incredible.
NiklausTheNaked ago
So that gives us: BJZFDF
You fucking idiot.
Hellboar ago
You're right. She wrote it all. You don't need men. We're all idiots.
NiklausTheNaked ago
Sarcastic backpedaling. Nice save.
I'm not saying others didn't make massive contributions, I'm just saying you have no reading comprehension, faggot.
Hellboar ago
The Event Horizon Telescope Collaboration, Kazunori Akiyama1,2,3,4, Antxon Alberdi5, Walter Alef6, Keiichi Asada7, Rebecca Azulay8,9,6, Anne-Kathrin Baczko6, David Ball10, Mislav Baloković4,11, John Barrett2, Dan Bintley12, Lindy Blackburn4,11, Wilfred Boland13, Katherine L. Bouman4,11,14, Geoffrey C. Bower15, Michael Bremer16, Christiaan D. Brinkerink17, Roger Brissenden4,11, Silke Britzen6, Avery E. Broderick18,19,20, Dominique Broguiere16, Thomas Bronzwaer17, Do-Young Byun21,22, John E. Carlstrom23,24,25,26, Andrew Chael4,11, Chi-kwan Chan10,27, Shami Chatterjee28, Koushik Chatterjee29, Ming-Tang Chen15, Yongjun Chen (陈永军)30,31, Ilje Cho21,22, Pierre Christian10,11, John E. Conway32, James M. Cordes28, Geoffrey B. Crew2, Yuzhu Cui33,34, Jordy Davelaar17, Mariafelicia De Laurentis35,36,37, Roger Deane38,39, Jessica Dempsey12, Gregory Desvignes6, Jason Dexter40, Sheperd S. Doeleman4,11, Ralph P. Eatough6, Heino Falcke17, Vincent L. Fish2, Ed Fomalont1, Raquel Fraga-Encinas17, Per Friberg12, Christian M. Fromm36, José L. Gómez5, Peter Galison4,41,42, Charles F. Gammie43,44, Roberto García16, Olivier Gentaz16, Boris Georgiev19, Ciriaco Goddi17,45, Roman Gold36, Minfeng Gu (顾敏峰)30,46, Mark Gurwell11, Kazuhiro Hada33,34, Michael H. Hecht2, Ronald Hesper47, Luis C. Ho (何子山)48,49, Paul Ho7, Mareki Honma33,34, Chih-Wei L. Huang7, Lei Huang (黄磊)30,46, David H. Hughes50, Shiro Ikeda3,51,52,53, Makoto Inoue7, Sara Issaoun17, David J. James4,11, Buell T. Jannuzi10, Michael Janssen17, Britton Jeter19,20, Wu Jiang (江悟)30, Michael D. Johnson4,11, Svetlana Jorstad54,55, Taehyun Jung21,22, Mansour Karami18,19, Ramesh Karuppusamy6, Tomohisa Kawashima3, Garrett K. Keating11, Mark Kettenis56, Jae-Young Kim6, Junhan Kim10, Jongsoo Kim21, Motoki Kino3,57, Jun Yi Koay7, Patrick M. Koch7, Shoko Koyama7, Michael Kramer6, Carsten Kramer16, Thomas P. Krichbaum6, Cheng-Yu Kuo58, Tod R. Lauer59, Sang-Sung Lee21, Yan-Rong Li (李彦荣)60, Zhiyuan Li (李志远)61,62, Michael Lindqvist32, Kuo Liu6, Elisabetta Liuzzo63, Wen-Ping Lo7,64, Andrei P. Lobanov6, Laurent Loinard65,66, Colin Lonsdale2, Ru-Sen Lu (路如森)30,6, Nicholas R. MacDonald6, Jirong Mao (毛基荣)67,68,69, Sera Markoff29,70, Daniel P. Marrone10, Alan P. Marscher54, Iván Martí-Vidal32,71, Satoki Matsushita7, Lynn D. Matthews2, Lia Medeiros10,72, Karl M. Menten6, Yosuke Mizuno36, Izumi Mizuno12, James M. Moran4,11, Kotaro Moriyama33,2, Monika Moscibrodzka17, Cornelia Müller6,17, Hiroshi Nagai3,34, Neil M. Nagar73, Masanori Nakamura7, Ramesh Narayan4,11, Gopal Narayanan74, Iniyan Natarajan39, Roberto Neri16, Chunchong Ni19,20, Aristeidis Noutsos6, Hiroki Okino33,75, Héctor Olivares36, Gisela N. Ortiz-León6, Tomoaki Oyama33, Feryal Özel10, Daniel C. M. Palumbo4,11, Nimesh Patel11, Ue-Li Pen18,76,77,78, Dominic W. Pesce4,11, Vincent Piétu16, Richard Plambeck79, Aleksandar PopStefanija74, Oliver Porth36,29, Ben Prather43, Jorge A. Preciado-López18, Dimitrios Psaltis10, Hung-Yi Pu18, Venkatessh Ramakrishnan73, Ramprasad Rao15, Mark G. Rawlings12, Alexander W. Raymond4,11, Luciano Rezzolla36, Bart Ripperda36, Freek Roelofs17, Alan Rogers2, Eduardo Ros6, Mel Rose10, Arash Roshanineshat10, Helge Rottmann6, Alan L. Roy6, Chet Ruszczyk2, Benjamin R. Ryan80,81, Kazi L. J. Rygl63, Salvador Sánchez82, David Sánchez-Arguelles50,83, Mahito Sasada33,84, Tuomas Savolainen6,85,86, F. Peter Schloerb74, Karl-Friedrich Schuster16, Lijing Shao6,49, Zhiqiang Shen (沈志强)30,31, Des Small56, Bong Won Sohn21,22,87, Jason SooHoo2, Fumie Tazaki33, Paul Tiede18,19, Remo P. J. Tilanus17,45,88, Michael Titus2, Kenji Toma89,90, Pablo Torne6,82, Tyler Trent10, Sascha Trippe91, Shuichiro Tsuda33, Ilse van Bemmel56, Huib Jan van Langevelde56,92, Daniel R. van Rossum17, Jan Wagner6, John Wardle93, Jonathan Weintroub4,11, Norbert Wex6, Robert Wharton6, Maciek Wielgus4,11, George N. Wong43, Qingwen Wu (吴庆文)94, André Young17, Ken Young11, Ziri Younsi95,36, Feng Yuan (袁峰)30,46,96, Ye-Fei Yuan (袁业飞)97, J. Anton Zensus6, Guangyao Zhao21, Shan-Shan Zhao17,61, Ziyan Zhu42, Roger Cappallo2, Joseph R. Farah11,98,4, Thomas W. Folkers10, Zheng Meyer-Zhao7,99, Daniel Michalik100,101, Andrew Nadolski44, Hiroaki Nishioka7, Nicolas Pradel7, Rurik A. Primiani11,102, Kamal Souccar74, Laura Vertatschitsch11,102, and Paul Yamaguchi11
NiklausTheNaked ago
You posted a giant list of every person on the project, from every organization involved. Obviously it's alphabetical. I cited a paper specifically about the imaging process, which highlights my point that she was a primary contributor, and it was largely her algorithm.
Hellboar ago
Who is Andrew? Haven't heard of him in the news.
NiklausTheNaked ago
He's the guy that committed the most lines of code, and is being lauded (in opposition to Katie) as the most accomplished contributor.
MDEneverdies1488 ago
My only issue is how do the other members of the team feel about her receiving bulk of the credit?
NiklausTheNaked ago
She gave the TEDx talk, and her name was listed first on the whitepapers. She literally created the algorithm by which the information was processed, and the entire team helped to implement it in code.
Would you give less credit to Einstein because he merely derived the equations that explain the universe, and give more credit to someone who put those equations into a calculator for you to use them? It's silly.
And to address your other question, the guy who wrote "850k lines" is even saying that's a ridiculous measure of merit. He says there's only realistically 68k lines of real code in the project, and the other lines are data models and documentation.
speedisavirus ago
She literally did not create the algorithm. The team literally said they did not use her approach. The fucking Washington post even admitted that
NiklausTheNaked ago
Then give me a proper source.
speedisavirus ago
I'm not Google, faggot. Go read the Washington post article on this.
NiklausTheNaked ago
What a surprise, it has no mention of not using her algorithm.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/nation/2019/04/12/trolls-hijacked-scientists-image-attack-katie-bouman-they-picked-wrong-astrophysicist/
Bouman herself says that not one algorithm or person is responsible for the success of the team, which is quite obvious, but they certainly did use her work.
speedisavirus ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/science/katie-bouman-black-hole.html
NiklausTheNaked ago
Thanks for the source! Interesting; I will adjust my views appropriately.
MDEneverdies1488 ago
Thanks for explaining. It was a genuine question. I only had one question though.
NiklausTheNaked ago
Sure, no problem. My apologies for ranting at you.
MDEneverdies1488 ago
Haha all good. Seeing all the details makes me wonder why they all had a problem with what you said. I mean, I didn't read anything about it, but you gave a good explanation as to why she gets most of the credit.
Granted, I do see that there may be an agenda about it. I don't care enough to read though, so what does that matter?
6cd6beb ago
I don't think you know what Einstein's work was, you're just reaching for the name that means "smart".
NiklausTheNaked ago
I'm trying to demonstrate something with an analogy. If you're too pedantic to understand the notion, that's your own fault.
6cd6beb ago
I don't think you know what pedantic means either.
I think you just reach for the most impactful word you can find and assume it'll work for you.
What your analogy demonstrates is that you have no idea what you're talking about. Equations like the ones Einstein found are different than the equations you put into a calculator. No one's out there solving for the Ricci curvature tensor on a TI-86.
NiklausTheNaked ago
You're detracting from the argument at hand. She accomplished research, the sum of which is not wholely demonstrated by git commits.
6cd6beb ago
At this point I don't think you could understand it at a level deeper than loc, though I'd bet you claim to.
She reviewed 3 PRs. That's not a team leader.
She didn't check in ANYTHING until the last year of the project. That's not a team leader.
If her job was to "just provide the idea while someone else does implementation": first off that's not really how it works outside of bad craigslist job posts, second off why isn't she reviewing more PRs if she's in a delegation role, third off why is she checking in other people's code? That doesn't make any sense at all. If you can pack up the code and send it across the internet, why not just check it into github?
NiklausTheNaked ago
Check your facts before you continue to make yourself look like an idiot.
She also committed under another username. See an example from 2016, here: https://github.com/achael/eht-imaging/commits/master?after=7b8b8d5e014a19a078a82dcb897f0ffb9fb00177+1539
6cd6beb ago
Are you trying to do satire? That sounds like satire.
And who is achael because that account dominates the page you linked.
Look, if you're saying LoC is a poor measure then the only other options for measuring contribution require more thorough understanding of the codebase, which I think is going to be hard for you - it's not possible for someone to learn something while they're in the middle of pretending they already know it.
NiklausTheNaked ago
A few things. First of all, I am normally skeptical regarding these types of things. I absolutely think white males are shortchanged in many respects, but I don't think this is one. Additionally, if you'd like to go down this road of if grokking the code, I'm game. Software engineering has been my career for 10 years now, and I'm a mathematics enthusiast. That being said, implementations of an algorithm in a codebase do not inherently mean that the same person was the creator of that logic. I implemented RC4 in Python and Java yesterday, but I didn't invent the algorithm.
ChiCom ago
Looks like she is the Ph.D and they do usually take most of the credit
MDEneverdies1488 ago
That was my understanding too,. Thanks for the explanation
Gargilius ago
We wish.
Nope, the people who take most of the credit are the ones who present well, and can make mean powerpoint slides.
Seriously guys and gals, prioritize those public speaking skills rather than focusing on the hard stuff, you'll get far more rewards for your efforts.
ChiCom ago
True but a research assistant never takes the credit from their advisor. You can't even publish if you don't put your advisor's name on your papers.
Gargilius ago
...most of the time, yep; unless your advisor happens to not be a dick (mine was really cool about this - it helped that he had plenty of his own legit published papers not to care about padding numbers) and it varies from field to field (in some disciplines, authors are listed alphabetically, and everybody in the team down to the janitors get their name on every papers - pretty obvious when you read the credits / lists of authors).
ninjajunkie ago
She deserves credit for her works, absolutely. So does everyone who contributed, credit where credit is due. I don't know shit and I know the number of lines of code has little to do with it overall contributions. This was definitely a narrative push, and I would guess she's just caught in the middle.
Turkeypotato ago
I've already seen a post the other dud made basically saying "yes she helped now can I have some pussy"
ninjajunkie ago
I already have one, why would I want one that some other dude put his dick in? The boss gets credit for running the company, and the secretary should get credit for running to get coffee is all I was saying.
prairie ago
Good point, it's likely the (((media))) that is the despicable ones, not this woman. She was probably the perfect thing to advance their agenda.
sinclair ago
They were pretty specific in saying the was a Computer Scientist, and she contributed "the algorithm", which would certainly be in her domain. They didn't say how much collaboration there was in producing said algorithm. Certainly the code writers would know.
Hellboar ago
As far as 'the algorithm' - it is a word that know nothing journalists use to seem informed.
Between me typing this into my phone and you receiving it and rendering it on your screen, tens of thousands of 'algorithms' have come into play. It is a misused/overused word which, like many things, means very little when coming out of the mouth of a journalist.
sinclair ago
Oh, right for sure the media used her only because "she". That she was a computer scientist and makes algorithms was incidental, and probably overplayed.
Civil_Warrior ago
I smell vagina instead of truth here.
sinclair ago
i wouldn't know, I code my own algorithms. I don't depend on someone else to do it for me. I have no idea how they structure their teams, so I can't judge what went on, only speculate.
Heathcliff ago
Pretty impressive for a broad.
TXRepublicMovement ago
You would pat her on the ass
Civil_Warrior ago
I'd pinch her huge beak