I have not analyzed the code or this issue in depth and based on the surface level discussions, it seems like the woman's role in this project was exaggerated by a media that is desperate to highlight vaginal accomplishments.
But I would strongly suggest that lines of code written is a poor metric for productivity to be used by either side. Some of the hardest parts of a project could involve just a small percentage of the code. Some of the best developers out there might end up writing very little, but very important code for a project. Sometimes the best developers even shrink your codebase down in size and manage to find new abstractions and turn thousands of line of code into hundreds and contribute negative lines of code per day. Whatever the truth is, lines of code is a very poor way to accurately spell it out IMO.
If you look through the software revisions she added thinks like an interface feature to change the font size, and integrated someone else's code dealing with the dataset.
Fine contributions, but certainly sophomoric in contrast with the bulk of the program.
There is no doubt she contrbuted. I think the argment is based on the idea of giving a junior member of the programming team credit for the rest.
Say the new Dodge Challenger had a woman engineer develop a new transmission concept. Then the media goes to say that woman engineer designed the entire car. It is clear in this example the media is distorting things, and to those of us who write code it's just as clear in the subject case.
What makes you think she was a junior member? She was the PHD student. She gave the TEDx talk, and her name was listed first on the whitepapers. She literally created the algorithm by which the information was processed, and the entire team helped to implement it in code.
She created the central sorting algo? That is not what I have read. I read she came in towards the end, and there is no mention anywhere of her writing any algorithms much less a 'central one. Where do you get your information?
You know how we talk about fake news?
'According to data provided publicly by GitHub, Bouman made 2,410 contributions to the over 900,000 lines of code required to create the first-of-its-kind black hole image, or 0.26 per cent. Bouman’s contributions also occurred toward the end of the work on the code.'
How about the TEDx talk she gave in 2016, where she describes the process, and specifically says it's her algorithm? She's been working on this for years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7n2rYt9wfU
Andrew may have written more code than her, but that doesn't mean he deserves more credit. Someone had to work out that math, and processes, and design the data flow. That's an incredible amount of work. I have been a software engineer for a decade, and can confidently tell you that lines of code committed is an absolutely terrible metric for measuring performance or project impact of an individual.
Bouman, Katherine L., Michael D. Johnson, Daniel Zoran, Vincent L. Fish, Sheperd S. Doeleman, and William T. Freeman. "Computational Imaging for VLBI Image Reconstruction." 2016 IEEE Conference on Computer Vision and Pattern Recognition (June 2016).
The Event Horizon Telescope Collaboration, Kazunori Akiyama1,2,3,4, Antxon Alberdi5, Walter Alef6, Keiichi Asada7, Rebecca Azulay8,9,6, Anne-Kathrin Baczko6, David Ball10, Mislav Baloković4,11, John Barrett2, Dan Bintley12, Lindy Blackburn4,11, Wilfred Boland13, Katherine L. Bouman4,11,14, Geoffrey C. Bower15, Michael Bremer16, Christiaan D. Brinkerink17, Roger Brissenden4,11, Silke Britzen6, Avery E. Broderick18,19,20, Dominique Broguiere16, Thomas Bronzwaer17, Do-Young Byun21,22, John E. Carlstrom23,24,25,26, Andrew Chael4,11, Chi-kwan Chan10,27, Shami Chatterjee28, Koushik Chatterjee29, Ming-Tang Chen15, Yongjun Chen (陈永军)30,31, Ilje Cho21,22, Pierre Christian10,11, John E. Conway32, James M. Cordes28, Geoffrey B. Crew2, Yuzhu Cui33,34, Jordy Davelaar17, Mariafelicia De Laurentis35,36,37, Roger Deane38,39, Jessica Dempsey12, Gregory Desvignes6, Jason Dexter40, Sheperd S. Doeleman4,11, Ralph P. Eatough6, Heino Falcke17, Vincent L. Fish2, Ed Fomalont1, Raquel Fraga-Encinas17, Per Friberg12, Christian M. Fromm36, José L. Gómez5, Peter Galison4,41,42, Charles F. Gammie43,44, Roberto García16, Olivier Gentaz16, Boris Georgiev19, Ciriaco Goddi17,45, Roman Gold36, Minfeng Gu (顾敏峰)30,46, Mark Gurwell11, Kazuhiro Hada33,34, Michael H. Hecht2, Ronald Hesper47, Luis C. Ho (何子山)48,49, Paul Ho7, Mareki Honma33,34, Chih-Wei L. Huang7, Lei Huang (黄磊)30,46, David H. Hughes50, Shiro Ikeda3,51,52,53, Makoto Inoue7, Sara Issaoun17, David J. James4,11, Buell T. Jannuzi10, Michael Janssen17, Britton Jeter19,20, Wu Jiang (江悟)30, Michael D. Johnson4,11, Svetlana Jorstad54,55, Taehyun Jung21,22, Mansour Karami18,19, Ramesh Karuppusamy6, Tomohisa Kawashima3, Garrett K. Keating11, Mark Kettenis56, Jae-Young Kim6, Junhan Kim10, Jongsoo Kim21, Motoki Kino3,57, Jun Yi Koay7, Patrick M. Koch7, Shoko Koyama7, Michael Kramer6, Carsten Kramer16, Thomas P. Krichbaum6, Cheng-Yu Kuo58, Tod R. Lauer59, Sang-Sung Lee21, Yan-Rong Li (李彦荣)60, Zhiyuan Li (李志远)61,62, Michael Lindqvist32, Kuo Liu6, Elisabetta Liuzzo63, Wen-Ping Lo7,64, Andrei P. Lobanov6, Laurent Loinard65,66, Colin Lonsdale2, Ru-Sen Lu (路如森)30,6, Nicholas R. MacDonald6, Jirong Mao (毛基荣)67,68,69, Sera Markoff29,70, Daniel P. Marrone10, Alan P. Marscher54, Iván Martí-Vidal32,71, Satoki Matsushita7, Lynn D. Matthews2, Lia Medeiros10,72, Karl M. Menten6, Yosuke Mizuno36, Izumi Mizuno12, James M. Moran4,11, Kotaro Moriyama33,2, Monika Moscibrodzka17, Cornelia Müller6,17, Hiroshi Nagai3,34, Neil M. Nagar73, Masanori Nakamura7, Ramesh Narayan4,11, Gopal Narayanan74, Iniyan Natarajan39, Roberto Neri16, Chunchong Ni19,20, Aristeidis Noutsos6, Hiroki Okino33,75, Héctor Olivares36, Gisela N. Ortiz-León6, Tomoaki Oyama33, Feryal Özel10, Daniel C. M. Palumbo4,11, Nimesh Patel11, Ue-Li Pen18,76,77,78, Dominic W. Pesce4,11, Vincent Piétu16, Richard Plambeck79, Aleksandar PopStefanija74, Oliver Porth36,29, Ben Prather43, Jorge A. Preciado-López18, Dimitrios Psaltis10, Hung-Yi Pu18, Venkatessh Ramakrishnan73, Ramprasad Rao15, Mark G. Rawlings12, Alexander W. Raymond4,11, Luciano Rezzolla36, Bart Ripperda36, Freek Roelofs17, Alan Rogers2, Eduardo Ros6, Mel Rose10, Arash Roshanineshat10, Helge Rottmann6, Alan L. Roy6, Chet Ruszczyk2, Benjamin R. Ryan80,81, Kazi L. J. Rygl63, Salvador Sánchez82, David Sánchez-Arguelles50,83, Mahito Sasada33,84, Tuomas Savolainen6,85,86, F. Peter Schloerb74, Karl-Friedrich Schuster16, Lijing Shao6,49, Zhiqiang Shen (沈志强)30,31, Des Small56, Bong Won Sohn21,22,87, Jason SooHoo2, Fumie Tazaki33, Paul Tiede18,19, Remo P. J. Tilanus17,45,88, Michael Titus2, Kenji Toma89,90, Pablo Torne6,82, Tyler Trent10, Sascha Trippe91, Shuichiro Tsuda33, Ilse van Bemmel56, Huib Jan van Langevelde56,92, Daniel R. van Rossum17, Jan Wagner6, John Wardle93, Jonathan Weintroub4,11, Norbert Wex6, Robert Wharton6, Maciek Wielgus4,11, George N. Wong43, Qingwen Wu (吴庆文)94, André Young17, Ken Young11, Ziri Younsi95,36, Feng Yuan (袁峰)30,46,96, Ye-Fei Yuan (袁业飞)97, J. Anton Zensus6, Guangyao Zhao21, Shan-Shan Zhao17,61, Ziyan Zhu42, Roger Cappallo2, Joseph R. Farah11,98,4, Thomas W. Folkers10, Zheng Meyer-Zhao7,99, Daniel Michalik100,101, Andrew Nadolski44, Hiroaki Nishioka7, Nicolas Pradel7, Rurik A. Primiani11,102, Kamal Souccar74, Laura Vertatschitsch11,102, and Paul Yamaguchi11
You posted a giant list of every person on the project, from every organization involved. Obviously it's alphabetical. I cited a paper specifically about the imaging process, which highlights my point that she was a primary contributor, and it was largely her algorithm.
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cdglow ago
I have not analyzed the code or this issue in depth and based on the surface level discussions, it seems like the woman's role in this project was exaggerated by a media that is desperate to highlight vaginal accomplishments.
But I would strongly suggest that lines of code written is a poor metric for productivity to be used by either side. Some of the hardest parts of a project could involve just a small percentage of the code. Some of the best developers out there might end up writing very little, but very important code for a project. Sometimes the best developers even shrink your codebase down in size and manage to find new abstractions and turn thousands of line of code into hundreds and contribute negative lines of code per day. Whatever the truth is, lines of code is a very poor way to accurately spell it out IMO.
Hellboar ago
If you look through the software revisions she added thinks like an interface feature to change the font size, and integrated someone else's code dealing with the dataset.
Fine contributions, but certainly sophomoric in contrast with the bulk of the program.
NiklausTheNaked ago
How many commits did you read? She added a lot of complex math as well.
Hellboar ago
There is no doubt she contrbuted. I think the argment is based on the idea of giving a junior member of the programming team credit for the rest.
Say the new Dodge Challenger had a woman engineer develop a new transmission concept. Then the media goes to say that woman engineer designed the entire car. It is clear in this example the media is distorting things, and to those of us who write code it's just as clear in the subject case.
NiklausTheNaked ago
What makes you think she was a junior member? She was the PHD student. She gave the TEDx talk, and her name was listed first on the whitepapers. She literally created the algorithm by which the information was processed, and the entire team helped to implement it in code.
Hellboar ago
She created the central sorting algo? That is not what I have read. I read she came in towards the end, and there is no mention anywhere of her writing any algorithms much less a 'central one. Where do you get your information?
You know how we talk about fake news?
'According to data provided publicly by GitHub, Bouman made 2,410 contributions to the over 900,000 lines of code required to create the first-of-its-kind black hole image, or 0.26 per cent. Bouman’s contributions also occurred toward the end of the work on the code.'
NiklausTheNaked ago
How about the TEDx talk she gave in 2016, where she describes the process, and specifically says it's her algorithm? She's been working on this for years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7n2rYt9wfU
Also, the guy who wrote "850k lines" of code admits that most of that code was data models, and that there are only about 68k lines of actual code in the project: https://twitter.com/thisgreyspirit/status/1116518544961830918
How about the white paper, wherein her name is first? https://dspace.mit.edu/openaccess-disseminate/1721.1/103077
Andrew may have written more code than her, but that doesn't mean he deserves more credit. Someone had to work out that math, and processes, and design the data flow. That's an incredible amount of work. I have been a software engineer for a decade, and can confidently tell you that lines of code committed is an absolutely terrible metric for measuring performance or project impact of an individual.
Hellboar ago
Citations are in alphabetical order for exactly this reason, btw.
NiklausTheNaked ago
Did you even read the citations in that document? Top of the page. Definitely not alphabetical. She's listed first.
Hellboar ago
It is alphabetical by last name. You people are incredible.
NiklausTheNaked ago
So that gives us: BJZFDF
You fucking idiot.
Hellboar ago
You're right. She wrote it all. You don't need men. We're all idiots.
NiklausTheNaked ago
Sarcastic backpedaling. Nice save.
I'm not saying others didn't make massive contributions, I'm just saying you have no reading comprehension, faggot.
Hellboar ago
The Event Horizon Telescope Collaboration, Kazunori Akiyama1,2,3,4, Antxon Alberdi5, Walter Alef6, Keiichi Asada7, Rebecca Azulay8,9,6, Anne-Kathrin Baczko6, David Ball10, Mislav Baloković4,11, John Barrett2, Dan Bintley12, Lindy Blackburn4,11, Wilfred Boland13, Katherine L. Bouman4,11,14, Geoffrey C. Bower15, Michael Bremer16, Christiaan D. Brinkerink17, Roger Brissenden4,11, Silke Britzen6, Avery E. Broderick18,19,20, Dominique Broguiere16, Thomas Bronzwaer17, Do-Young Byun21,22, John E. Carlstrom23,24,25,26, Andrew Chael4,11, Chi-kwan Chan10,27, Shami Chatterjee28, Koushik Chatterjee29, Ming-Tang Chen15, Yongjun Chen (陈永军)30,31, Ilje Cho21,22, Pierre Christian10,11, John E. Conway32, James M. Cordes28, Geoffrey B. Crew2, Yuzhu Cui33,34, Jordy Davelaar17, Mariafelicia De Laurentis35,36,37, Roger Deane38,39, Jessica Dempsey12, Gregory Desvignes6, Jason Dexter40, Sheperd S. Doeleman4,11, Ralph P. Eatough6, Heino Falcke17, Vincent L. Fish2, Ed Fomalont1, Raquel Fraga-Encinas17, Per Friberg12, Christian M. Fromm36, José L. Gómez5, Peter Galison4,41,42, Charles F. Gammie43,44, Roberto García16, Olivier Gentaz16, Boris Georgiev19, Ciriaco Goddi17,45, Roman Gold36, Minfeng Gu (顾敏峰)30,46, Mark Gurwell11, Kazuhiro Hada33,34, Michael H. Hecht2, Ronald Hesper47, Luis C. Ho (何子山)48,49, Paul Ho7, Mareki Honma33,34, Chih-Wei L. Huang7, Lei Huang (黄磊)30,46, David H. Hughes50, Shiro Ikeda3,51,52,53, Makoto Inoue7, Sara Issaoun17, David J. James4,11, Buell T. Jannuzi10, Michael Janssen17, Britton Jeter19,20, Wu Jiang (江悟)30, Michael D. Johnson4,11, Svetlana Jorstad54,55, Taehyun Jung21,22, Mansour Karami18,19, Ramesh Karuppusamy6, Tomohisa Kawashima3, Garrett K. Keating11, Mark Kettenis56, Jae-Young Kim6, Junhan Kim10, Jongsoo Kim21, Motoki Kino3,57, Jun Yi Koay7, Patrick M. Koch7, Shoko Koyama7, Michael Kramer6, Carsten Kramer16, Thomas P. Krichbaum6, Cheng-Yu Kuo58, Tod R. Lauer59, Sang-Sung Lee21, Yan-Rong Li (李彦荣)60, Zhiyuan Li (李志远)61,62, Michael Lindqvist32, Kuo Liu6, Elisabetta Liuzzo63, Wen-Ping Lo7,64, Andrei P. Lobanov6, Laurent Loinard65,66, Colin Lonsdale2, Ru-Sen Lu (路如森)30,6, Nicholas R. MacDonald6, Jirong Mao (毛基荣)67,68,69, Sera Markoff29,70, Daniel P. Marrone10, Alan P. Marscher54, Iván Martí-Vidal32,71, Satoki Matsushita7, Lynn D. Matthews2, Lia Medeiros10,72, Karl M. Menten6, Yosuke Mizuno36, Izumi Mizuno12, James M. Moran4,11, Kotaro Moriyama33,2, Monika Moscibrodzka17, Cornelia Müller6,17, Hiroshi Nagai3,34, Neil M. Nagar73, Masanori Nakamura7, Ramesh Narayan4,11, Gopal Narayanan74, Iniyan Natarajan39, Roberto Neri16, Chunchong Ni19,20, Aristeidis Noutsos6, Hiroki Okino33,75, Héctor Olivares36, Gisela N. Ortiz-León6, Tomoaki Oyama33, Feryal Özel10, Daniel C. M. Palumbo4,11, Nimesh Patel11, Ue-Li Pen18,76,77,78, Dominic W. Pesce4,11, Vincent Piétu16, Richard Plambeck79, Aleksandar PopStefanija74, Oliver Porth36,29, Ben Prather43, Jorge A. Preciado-López18, Dimitrios Psaltis10, Hung-Yi Pu18, Venkatessh Ramakrishnan73, Ramprasad Rao15, Mark G. Rawlings12, Alexander W. Raymond4,11, Luciano Rezzolla36, Bart Ripperda36, Freek Roelofs17, Alan Rogers2, Eduardo Ros6, Mel Rose10, Arash Roshanineshat10, Helge Rottmann6, Alan L. Roy6, Chet Ruszczyk2, Benjamin R. Ryan80,81, Kazi L. J. Rygl63, Salvador Sánchez82, David Sánchez-Arguelles50,83, Mahito Sasada33,84, Tuomas Savolainen6,85,86, F. Peter Schloerb74, Karl-Friedrich Schuster16, Lijing Shao6,49, Zhiqiang Shen (沈志强)30,31, Des Small56, Bong Won Sohn21,22,87, Jason SooHoo2, Fumie Tazaki33, Paul Tiede18,19, Remo P. J. Tilanus17,45,88, Michael Titus2, Kenji Toma89,90, Pablo Torne6,82, Tyler Trent10, Sascha Trippe91, Shuichiro Tsuda33, Ilse van Bemmel56, Huib Jan van Langevelde56,92, Daniel R. van Rossum17, Jan Wagner6, John Wardle93, Jonathan Weintroub4,11, Norbert Wex6, Robert Wharton6, Maciek Wielgus4,11, George N. Wong43, Qingwen Wu (吴庆文)94, André Young17, Ken Young11, Ziri Younsi95,36, Feng Yuan (袁峰)30,46,96, Ye-Fei Yuan (袁业飞)97, J. Anton Zensus6, Guangyao Zhao21, Shan-Shan Zhao17,61, Ziyan Zhu42, Roger Cappallo2, Joseph R. Farah11,98,4, Thomas W. Folkers10, Zheng Meyer-Zhao7,99, Daniel Michalik100,101, Andrew Nadolski44, Hiroaki Nishioka7, Nicolas Pradel7, Rurik A. Primiani11,102, Kamal Souccar74, Laura Vertatschitsch11,102, and Paul Yamaguchi11
NiklausTheNaked ago
You posted a giant list of every person on the project, from every organization involved. Obviously it's alphabetical. I cited a paper specifically about the imaging process, which highlights my point that she was a primary contributor, and it was largely her algorithm.
Hellboar ago
Who is Andrew? Haven't heard of him in the news.
NiklausTheNaked ago
He's the guy that committed the most lines of code, and is being lauded (in opposition to Katie) as the most accomplished contributor.