Everyone has seen at least a few of the various gore posts by now, and I would like to address the problem. Up until now, I've left them alone because I think a default subverse like /v/aww should remain free of censorship as much as possible, with the only exceptions including violations of site-wide voat rules about spam, personal information, and illegal content. Troll posts, off-topic content, and a few other things that don't really fit the spirit of the subverse don't have any kind of formal prohibition, so I've allowed them thus far.
For the most part, the system has worked and troll posts have gotten heavily downvoated. The community here has rallied together and started posting and upvoating lots of good quality content to drown it out. Special thanks (in no particular order) to @plankO, @ExpertShitposter, @gabara, @LisaScienceQueen, and numerous others for all you've done to fill this place with aww-worthy stuff. I and many other people here truly appreciate it.
I would still like to formalize some rules for the subverse and discuss what a default subverse should prohibit. I don't want gore in this subverse and don't want anyone subjected to it, but I still don't want to hurt the integrity or spirit of voat by imposing content restrictions. I understand that even the trolls and weird mentally disturbed freaks have the right to use this website, and any restrictions on their freedoms affects my freedoms as well. So what does everyone think about adding rules prohibiting gore, animal abuse, and disturbing content? What else should this subverse formally prohibit? What do you think the moderators here should enforce, and what rules would justify the removal of a post or comment? Should the rules work as mere guidelines for a default subverse, or should they define the kinds of content the moderators can remove? I welcome all thoughts and ideas. Above all, I think the community should have its say and maintain control rather than someone like me dictate the rules as I see fit. I don't have any real claim to this subverse even if I moderate it, it belongs to everyone.
Finally, I would like to extend an offer to anyone interested in helping moderate this subverse. Even if we don't start enforcing any new rules, it would never hurt to have more people available to remove spam and other site-wide rule violations. This subverse hasn't had very much activity for a long time and hasn't really needed any help, but I'd say its recent rise in activity warrants having a larger mod team. Leave a comment making your case if you would like to moderate /v/aww, and provide info about any moderating you've done or any other relevant details. Everything for this process will stay out in the open, no PMs or back-room dealings. @KatHarzso and @HateCumbuckets have offered to help, but the offer extends to everyone of course, and I won't play favorites. I hate you all equally. :)
Unrelated: https://i.imgtc.com/RFGleB6.jpg
Edit 12/2: For now, I will tag gore/troll posts as NSFW and apply the appropriate flair. If you see an untagged post, please ping me or reply here. Lots of good arguments for and against enforcing a well-defined set of rules and I will consider all options presented, but I most certainly won't rush to implement anything here. Same goes for adding other moderators.
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redpilldessert ago
I had this exact problem posed to me for the alternative right sub.
I love you for how you've presented this to us all. Whatever decision you make, I'm not going to mind too much, but I think what you've done is pointed out a more fundamental problem which affects all subs, and Voat in general.
Honestly, in a perfect world, we'd leave it to the downvotes. HOWEVER, v/aww fans may absolute detest seeing such content. Therefore my proposed solution is to leave it to the downvotes, but also where u/PuttItOut (sorry for the ping) employs a system where users can create a threshold (either site-wide, or for each sub), so that they can say: "Okay, only show me posts OVER -5 votes" or "only show my posts over 0 votes", or "only show me posts over +5 votes". Those who are more brave to battles the stormy waters of trolls can have the threshold set to very low, whilst those who are more sensitive can set it to say, +5 or +10.
ScientificRacism ago
I have yet to see anyone explain how this effects freedom of speech though. Voat is a freedom of speech website. And banning people who post gore to a specific subverse that's oriented towards the polar opposite of gore does not impede anyones speech. They're still able to post gore to Voat. They can create a subverse, or they can post it to v/WTF or other subverses where it's relevant.
I don't understand how you can reach the conclusions you're reaching, because if that's the case why even have subverses? Why aren't we all just posting to v/whatever?
redpilldessert ago
Because subs gain momentum and being banned from a popular sub is going to bias its content, no matter how minutely. I think gore is utterly out of place on this sub, BUT I'm talking about a principle here, a principle of downvoting which fundamentally makes almost ANY kind of moderation unnecessary.
And so does banning someone who posts the wrong opinions to r/news on Plebbit. Yes they can create their own sub (or post on say r/politic or r/worldpolitics), which is better than nothing, but we want something more than than just "better than nothing".
ScientificRacism ago
No, you're a fucking kike. We have subverses for a reason. Posting the polar opposite of what a subverse is themed for strictly to harass the moderators and most active members of the community is harassment. This website doesn't run itself, and it's real easy for you to sit back and pontificate about your principles when you're not doing the work of sifting through pictures of mutilated corpses.
Even taking principle into account. They're not being silenced. They can post their shit on Voat still. End of story.
The fact that you're comparing posting pictures of mutilated corpses in v/aww to posting the wrong opinions in r/news is utterly ridiculous and you fucking know it.
Meanwhile you're a fucking Redditor. Can't make this shit up.
redpilldessert ago
I sympathize with you here. That's what the threshold idea is for though, and in the end, the trolls will get bored, and have their karma reduced to zero or worse.
Check me out over there, look at my posts and comments. I like to redpill people, and some subs here are too quiet right now (I'm trying to change that). I like to be in places where people are disagreeing with me.
Your arguments of censorship are like Reddit mods, but obviously less (or far less) extreme. Apart from illegal stuff, moderators SHOULD NOT be needed if the voting system works correctly and as intended. Normal people who just want to see cute stuff should simply set the threshold to a high number, and call it a day.
ScientificRacism ago
If that's the case, I'm amazed you haven't been shadowbanned. I'm the same way in general, but Reddit is such an insufferable pile of shit that I'd rather comment on Youtube videos. At least my comments don't get deleted there.
I don't even think they're in the same ballpark man, but you've made up your mind. Apparently removing content aimed strictly at harassing people and making the life of those who operate the website hell, apparently that's not malicious, apparently that's just the same as sharing your opinion on r/news. I don't know, that's kike level bullshit. They can't take the website down, so they try to make it as terrible as they can so people just leave. I already blocked v/aww due to all this nonsense. I don't want half my damn frontpage being v/aww posts because people are trying to "fight back" against pictures of mutilated corpses. On the other hand I don't want to miss out on conversations like this one we're having right now.
Again, why do we even have subverses? They're thematic. They're meant to help organize the website. The reason I'm not on 8ch is because it's an chaotic pile of unorganized shit. Voat brings a bit of sanity to the chaos, I feel it's what most people whether they realize it or not actually like about Voat.
In general I agree with you though, in 99% of instances it should be up to the votes. The whole gore posting thing wouldn't even be that big of a deal to me if it was happening in other subverses where it went against the theme. It's that they're doing this specifically to v/aww to have the greatest possible shock effect on people that they can. I'm for freedom of speech, not freedom to harass people and hide behind it being your speech when you're not even saying anything.
redpilldessert ago
To clarify, it wouldn't bother me that much if they went ahead with the gore ban. But to be honest, it just gnaws at me that mods should have to worry about censoring and banning people in the first place. It's an ugly solution to an ugly problem.
Did you catch my edit in the previous comment where I said:
Can you see how that would have the effect that you want, but by going about it in an automated and systematic way? These things shouldn't be binary, but on a scale which allows for grey shades (and hell, posting gore is gonna get heavily downvoted to allow for very dark shades).
ScientificRacism ago
Honestly man, I view downvoats as a bigger threat to 'freedom of speech' than banning people posting gore to v/aww
Downvoats regularly silence users on Voat. We have several regulars with massively negative ccp and all they're doing technically speaking is "posting the wrong opinions to v/news"
If you think Voat doesn't have some version of Reddits hive mind, well, you're being a bit naive in my opinion.
For instance when I first showed up here a few years back, my original account received a lot of downvoats on a regular basis because I personally disagreed with a lot of what people were saying. At the time I was pretty against racism. Because I had never been part of a community that wasn't heavily censored. If I came to Voat now acting like I did three years ago i firmly believe my account would be in the negatives for ccp, and that might have forced me to leave ( the restrictions for negative ccp are pretty heavy handed ). I never would have been red pilled. I can't help but wonder how many people like me we have chased away because they were regurgitating their programming and we downvoated them because they're cucks.
So yeah, banning people from v/aww for posting stuff with the goal of harassing people just doesn't feel like a freedom of speech issue to me. Who knows. Maybe I'm still just a brainwashed cuck.
redpilldessert ago
Fair points. Bear in mind though my formula would apply to each sub independently.
I agree that left-wingers are in danger of being overly-censored now, and I suppose in that regard, comments should be punished far less heavily than actual posts.
ScientificRacism ago
And yeah I could definitely see there being ways of automating that sort of thing like you suggested, I'm just worried it would end up catching people who are far more innocent than individuals posting gore in v/aww. Instead of just penalizing situations as they arise we would be implementing something that would most likely work, but could still potentially get undeserving randoms caught in its net.
ScientificRacism ago
I guess ideologically speaking, I tend to lean towards penalizing specific instances of behavior and that's why I lean towards simply banning them. In my mind it's a clear cut situation, they're not attempting to say anything of value and that's from an objective standpoint, they're doing it strictly to harass people and I'm not against harassing people because fuck banning "harassment" but when it's to the extent of posting mutilated bodies... I don't know. For me it's the same as CP. I don't disagree with CP because it's illegal for instance, I disagree with it because the whole situation enrages me on a fundamental level.
The idea of trying to trick people who are wanting to decompress and just see a cute picture into looking at mutilated corpses... Fuck man. That's some shit. I'm all for trolling, even in pretty extreme ways, but there's just something about this that irks me in a pretty unique way.
redpilldessert ago
I suppose I've always been heavily against permanent bans because even the worst trolls can change for the better even if it takes months or years
ScientificRacism ago
Well it would be subverse specific, and Voat is the sort of community where people could honestly PM the mods that banned them months later and apologize, and they would probably get unbanned. I could see there being a system in place where people can appeal bans after a certain amount of time and then be placed on a probationary period or something, where if they repeat the behavior etc etc -- but again I'm only talking about really really specific circumstances that I even support banning people in the first place etc.