The reason given was "Under the Acceptable Use Policy, PayPal may not be used to send or receive payments for certain sexually oriented materials or services or for items that could be considered obscene". This is wrong/false on so many levels. We used PayPal only as a means to receive voluntary donations from people who wanted to support further development of Voat and to help pay for our hosting fees. This is beyond crazy.
According to PayPal User Agreement, our funds can be kept by PayPal for 180 days. I requested further clarification from PayPal, but I would like to advise everyone who planned to donate to Voat - to NOT do so via PayPal.
Honestly, I don't know what I expected when I trusted PayPal with our donation money. I apologize to everyone who donated to us through PayPal and I will badge everyone who did so even if the funds are never released by PayPal.
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Guerilla ago
Well, that was expected. Paypal is a fucking terrible corporation and people should REALLY stop trusting these fucking blackmailers. How many people must these fucks screw before the public stops trusting them with their money?
edit: It seems Google Wallet is just as terrible, so the only solution for an easy to pay system is a build in site pay feature which imo should be a priority now if we want voat to survive. Unless there are other suggestions.
edit2: If you don't want to close your paypal account because you might need it in the future, which is understandable given its popularity, I urge everyone to empty their paypal accounts completely and only use it for direct transactions with their CC. Not just because you're boycotting but to protect your money from these thieving fucks (for example...). Also, if you're buying something from another country make sure to change the settings to stop paypal from converting the currency for you (the setting is in tiny fond during the transaction) because paypal's currency exchange rates are obscenely expensive. It's just another way for paypal to rip off their customers and it's actually an opt-out system which is enraging. And DO NOT "upgrade" your account unless you really need that, iirc there are a couple of scams there too.
Fact_Checking_Alien ago
It may be advisable to begin investing in to any service which agrees solidly with freedom of expression, and supports them likewise. Currently it would appear the best solution is Bitcoin, which is rather ironic because they're pushing an increasing number of persons into its use through censorship. In other words, ironic because they're killing themselves with their ideological rulings.
Perhaps the best thing I can say about Voat and people who've been attracted by it: We don't want your god-damn ideology. We want your service. Let us decide what we want to say with it. If there are any other services on the internet who sides by this, though admitting restrictions forced by law, I would fully support their using Voat to advertise themselves.
Edit: If anyone knows of any such service fitting this description, please respond with it. Maybe we can make a compilation and see where we go from there.
DarkLordGig ago
What about this? https://www.merchantinc.com/ I heard it is better then paypal.
sniper98g ago
Still Bitcoin, but Circle makes bitcoin really easy to send.
SamHH ago
What's best between Circle and Coinbase or alternatives? I haven't followed Bitcoin for around a year and a half now and all this stuff is new to me.
toddgak ago
itbit is a quite new and fully insured and licensed as a bank in the States. There are many other options available to dabble in it.
Pyramidion ago
They're more or less the same. I prefer Coinbase because of their "vault". But if you're not keeping large amounts of BTC with them (and you shouldn't be -- check out something Trezor), you could go with either one. Try downloading their apps and see which one you like most.
xlx ago
Something something all exchanges are Mt Gox
ezen ago
It's going to push the fee on the buyer, though. It makes it harder to purchase as they'd have to open a Circle/Coinbase account, etc. It's a lot of hassle to support a site like this. Consumer adoption of bitcoin has always been hampered by it simply taking more effort to use day to day.
There has to be a payment provider or plugin to easily accept donations that's not PayPal.
Fact_Checking_Alien ago
Unfortunately part of that problem are financial regulations in the U.S. because it's terrifying for anyone to do anything illegal with the funds.
nextasy ago
Unless you're fucking paypal, apparently.
Wellhungguy ago
I know reddit doesn't like bitcoin because lol pyramid scheme hur dur hur, but i've been using it quite happily for awhile. It had a bubble last year, but it's been steady for some time. Useful to have a stash..
Up to you guys though..
arcticblue ago
Likewise, I love bitcoin. No one is going to deny you your money with it.
DoucheBagMcGee ago
Arguments about it being a ripoff aside, unless you are running a business and already received buttcoins as payment, It's a pain in the ass to get them, and a pain in the ass to spend and keep them, not to mention converting them to real money is pretty damn hard.
The last part is important, because for those guys that pump and dump to leave, they need new blood to cash out. Gotta leave somebody holding the bag. It's just a matter of time before another big pump and value loss, or until one group of people own enough miners so that they can start generating their own bogus transactions. Either way the currency is eventually screwed.
Wellhungguy ago
None of what you say is true in my experience. Also, the "buttcoin" thing makes me suspect you're twelve.
DoucheBagMcGee ago
/r/buttcoin is a relatively large sub, actually. Probably had more active users than /r/bitcoin...
toddgak ago
You're talking about the coke and pepsi of echo chambers. r/bitcoin are fanatics who don't understand bitcoin, r/buttcoin are those kids on the bus who like to make fun of retards, who also don't understand bitcoin.
uberdoober ago
Most reddit users understand that Bitcoin is not a pyramid scheme. What I routinely see on Reddit is sockpuppet or shill accounts that actively discourage any person from moving away from the established retail banks or paypal. Credit union and bitcoin is the best combination one could ever need right now.
435947? ago
Not everyone who dislikes Bit Coin is a sock-puppet or shill. We Buttcoiners like to point out the ridiculousness of you guys accusing everyone of being a shill.
j_ ago
In what way? As far as the users go, Changetip is a popular bot/service. Reddit itself as a company accepts Bitcoin for gold.
Wellhungguy ago
I rarely post on reddit. But as i read/lurk, whenever bitcoin is mentioned, people jump in and start talkimg about what a scam it is... Just my experience...
Wellhungguy ago
I rarely post on reddit. But as i read/lurk, whenever bitcoin is mentioned, people jump in and start talkimg about what a scam it is... Just my experience...
j_ ago
I guess it depends on where you lurk :)
edgelord ago
Bitcoin a pyramid scheme? I don't see this as being plausible in the slightest.
wait ago
It's extremely deflationary, because production continually slows down. This greatly benefits early adopters. They become more and more rare over time, so they gain value over time.
Never trust anyone that says "hur dur hur."
edgelord ago
That's how every resource works.
Voat_Poaster ago
More like BUTTcoin! Ha ha! my wrangler wipes the drool from my lips
umilmi81 ago
Pyramid scheme isn't really the right word for it, but bitcoin has the same problem as physical gold. The gold is more valuable as an investment than it is as a currency. When the value of a gold coin is going to be higher next year than it is this year there is incentive to hang on to it and not spend it.
As more people hold on to their gold coins instead of spending them the value of gold coins continues to rise creating a bubble.
Decoupling the US dollar from gold meant we could have inflation. Despite what you will hear from the Gold Bugs, inflation is good as long as the reason for the inflation is private borrowing rather than government borrowing.
When a private entity borrows money that money is "created out of thin air". Well in order to pay back that money created out of thin air the private entity needs to create goods and services "out of thin air". This means more goods and services for the world to consume.
Governments, on the other hand, don't create goods and services. Governments govern. Government is an overhead cost. When the government borrows money they can't pay it back. The only way to pay it back is to take it from someone else who can create goods and services.
snex ago
There is simply no evidence that this is the case. Consumer electronics fall in price every single year, predictably, and yet people constantly buy them and these firms are among the most profitable in the world. And nobody is going to simply starve to death waiting for their gold to appreciate in value so much that they can buy more food down the road. When America was on a gold standard, our economic growth was higher than it was any time after that, bar none.
The idea that inflation is good for you is a lie perpetuated by the people who actually benefit from inflation - the government and Wall Street firms who get to spend the new money before prices in the economy go up.
umilmi81 ago
You've got my point completely backwards. I'm saying bitcoins (and gold) gain value every year, not lose it. If your MP3 player got more valuable every year you'd never get rid of it.
Fiat currency loses value every year. This makes it a hot potato and incentivises investors to get rid of it before it evaporates. Rather than put the money in the bank investors invest in the stock market.
That is what happens when $1 will only be worth $0.94 the next year. However if $1 will be worth $1.06 a year later you would be an idiot to invest that money. Investing is a gamble. If the cash is guaranteed to go up you just put it in a matress and watch yourself get richer. This is exactly what happened with bitcoins. The value kept going up and up and up. Nobody was buying anything with it, just buying more bitcoins to save as an investment. People who bought bitcoins at $0.15 are happy to sell them at $1,100. However people who bought them at $1,100 don't want to sell them (or spend them) for anything less than $1,100. Instead they will hang on to them until they are more valuable.
A currency that nobody uses as a medium of exchange is useless and will never be anything more than a fad.
The irony is that people with lots of excess money are investing in bitcoin to protect themselves against inflation. They are giving away their fiat currency for cryptocurrency because they want a currency that holds it's value. It's like buying gold, but with one big difference. Gold has value and uses other than as an anonymous currency. Gold is lustrous and beautiful to look at. Gold is malleable and can be shaped into anything. Gold doesn't rust. Gold has industrial applications. Bitcoins has no value other than as an anonymous currency.
snex ago
What exactly do you think money in the bank is? Investments are the bricks upon which we improve society. Investments lead to improved technology which leads to improved quality of life which means that prices go down. How can you possibly believe that you will be made better off by the price of beef going up 0.16% every month, when you maybe only get a raise once per year?
umilmi81 ago
Prices don't go up because of efficiency. Everything gets better and cheaper.
snex ago
That's exactly what I said. But these people here think that rising prices are desirable for some reason.
pike ago
your point was not taken backwards. for example, why would i buy an iPhone 6 this year when next year it'll be $100 cheaper? and yet many many people do buy iPhones, and many other gadgets, instead of waiting. that's the point that was made. this disproves that deflation always lowers spending.
umilmi81 ago
You buy an iPhone 6 because it's better than an iPhone 4. Your bitcoin purchased in 2013 doesn't have any features that make it better than a bitcoin purchased in 2015.
LOOK_AT_MY_POT ago
The people calling bitcoin (BTC) a "pyramid scheme" don't really understand the words "pyramid scheme" or "bitcoin".
"Pump and dump" would be a much more accurate term.
Early adopters bought BTC cheap ($0.13 in my case) and then hyped the fuck out of BTC.
More people started buying BTC due to the hype (this is the "pump").
The price skyrocketed.
Then they (we) sold those BTC for >$1000 each (this is the "dump").
I made 769230.7% profit off each BTC.
Now BTC is stable, and can be used as currency, and I made (literally) a metric ton of money.
Rummel ago
The Litecoin gravy boat pump is coming right? guys?
j_ ago
Yep, and that said, any "scheme" was carried out using Bitcoin, but isn't a flaw or attribute of Bitcoin itself.
It's like saying money is a pyramid scheme or a pump-and-dump scheme.
LOOK_AT_MY_POT ago
Exactly, the same thing is done with stocks literally every day, and no one calls that a flaw in the stock market.
Spank_My_Bottom ago
They do, pump and dump is heavily monitored and regulated. Some people are in jail for it. On the other hand, the bitcoin buble was less a product of fraud and more of uneducated investment. Using bitcoin as means to transaction (as opposed to spaculate on the investment) is safe enough.
edgelord ago
I don't even use bitcoin and I know that these accusations are ridiculous. You explained it quite well.