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kestrel9 ago

preemptively banned users that had never been in that sub

coupled with

intention to delete comments

Yes that's a problem, you can't preemptively ban someone who has not been to the sub.

I told her she should ban any accounts that she knew for a fact were his alts.

'knew for a fact' being the operative terms, perhaps for suspected alts, the name can be set up and she could have received a ping if that suspected alt showed up, then see if they break rules. Very difficult to deal with comments, a flood of alts don't have to create a submission that breaks rules in order to wreak havoc. But there was some mitigating factors, the fact that it was so personal by that point, cross sub trolling etc. All that came at the end of a series of events.

The problem in v/greatawakening right now is that after the first night the mod just stopped giving reasons

In general, there should be time to go back and modify reasons if needed. For instance, the naked woman pic that zkb contested saying it wasn't 'porn', that same post could be banned as not Q related, no NSFW reasons etc. So just because an 'other' reason is used, doesn't automatically make the ban something that should be reversed. More specific rules can and I suspect do apply (I'd have to go through them to cite the rules broken). That end of a very hostile and malignant campaign (most PV may not comprehend the full aspects of it, even if they know the history of prior attacks) needed a punch play to satisfy the users who had been dragged through so much drama that they didn't deserve, and I say that that included the PV coming over and opining making srayzie look brow beaten at times, yet the troll seemed to skate.

Before we assume that all the bans were unsubstantiated, they can be reviewed and perhaps those which are really contestable are far fewer than PV assumes. I agree the goal is to avoid a 'police state' within a sub, no one wants that. I was made uncomfortable by the huge push for a long rule list, which in the end didn't help keep srayzie from resigning, or stopping the harassing post to this day (they're just banned effectively now and happen outside the sub).

I spoke out recently about a post that called for a rally of having the users 'go to war' (a troll post btw that was legitimately banned.) and I know this is repeating what I said earlier, but empowering the users does involve having them be able to create an environment where they don't have to be in constant vigilance against each other. In that kind of charged environment mistakes in judgement are made much more often, people don't hear each other's pov, there's less room to have debates about a subject because knee jerk "he's a troll!" accusations will ensue more often (as if it wasn't already a habitual reaction with Qsubs on the whole ;)

kestrel9 ago

I still believe there should be strategies to deal with cases like GA and srayzie. When zkb threw a tantrum about being banned, shouldn't PV also ignore him? Let some bans stand without too much hand wringing and dissertations about who is or isn't at fault, or who talks to much, let the ban stand and be hands off of the sub, especially in a case like zkb, who like you said, had run you around leaving you out of ideas.

Having to chose on sub over another to be attacked by trolls is not a strategy that addresses the problem of troll groups like zkb. You mentioned shizy being one of 1000 alts. Should having alts be limited for users who abuse them? Or does that question bring us back to your answer you just stated:

Putt may not want to start banning VPNs and TOR exit nodes.

Which brings up a question, when the PV policies were developed based on Mod abuse at reddit, was the typical user banned a unique user or an alt? Specifically, were alts as prevalent and easily managed then? Protecting the equivalent of one user one voice is understandable, but banning a person who is known to use dozens or hundreds of alts, does that ban really hold the same potential of dire mod abuse that PV is seeking to preemptively prevent.

kestrel9 ago

okay thanks. She had a few bans on zkb, (I'd have to check dates to see if they were in place then) seems as though repeated bans warranted being banned as unique IP user, regardless of alts. if that's possible.

Hand_of_Node ago

being banned as unique IP user, regardless of alts. if that's possible.

I get a new IP address a couple minutes after turning my modem off and back on. Banning by IP only works with some types of connections. (mine is dsl)

kestrel9 ago

this is something I wanted to have clarified from excerpt cited below: when the claim is made: k begs us to brigade

and the response isn't a denial but a qualification: Trolling and brigading are two different things.

That reads like "you asked us to brigade" ans: 'no I asked you to troll not brigade'.

Is there a private joke in there?

https://voat.co/v/Voat/3239483/18818143/10#18818143

[–] zyklon_b 2 points (+5|-3) 9 days ago

lmao. cry cry cry bitch.

@trigglypuff look how this cuck begs us to brigade rPV but then cried for halp halp halp halp safe space

[–] kevdude -2 points (+1|-3) 9 days ago

"begs us to brigade rPV"

Trolling and brigading are two different things. Besides that sub already has Reddit moderation. You need to provoke subs that don't, right?

[–] zyklon_b -1 points (+2|-3) 9 days ago

i am only provokin GA cause of trump support for Israel. zero other motive. you should have stayed out cause was only gonna last a couple days...NOW it ends when the new @she suicides

[–] kevdude 3 points (+3|-0) 9 days ago

"you should have stayed out cause was only gonna last a couple days"

We do not negotiate with terrorists.

[–] zyklon_b -3 points (+1|-4) 9 days ago

@srayzie seems if i had made such a fool of muh self over a joke the proper action to take to save GA and the plan would be END IT. Suicide =peace is a good meme

Rainy-Day-Dream ago

men create a forum, women join forum, drama ensues.

VISUALIZE MY SURPRISE

sguevar ago

LMAO. Yup and it is up to men to clean up the mess XD

sinclair ago

Thanks for the wave @sguevar, don't be sorry. Any learned approach that helps improve the play pen for everyone, is a welcome net good, to be sure. :-)

Dismember ago

Been really impressed with what I've seen from the new mods/owners here at PV so far. When I had to step down last year I was worried about who @kevdude would put in place, but it seems like he's got a pretty solid group here.

Vindicator ago

I'm sorry sguevar. Given what happened to me in the past 24 Hours, I don't have a lot of faith the issues we've been discussing here will be resolved any time soon. I submitted a fully documented, evidence-based post on it, and it was promptly given a derisive flair and downvoted. The owner of this subverse commented on it within minutes of my submitting it -- without examining any of the evidence -- with a shitty "TL;DR" which proves everything I have been saying.

Most of my attempts to share my perspective on the fundamental issues I believe are behind recent events have been met with similar dismissiveness.

@Peaceseeker

Hand_of_Node ago

what happened to me in the past 24 Hours

What happened?

Vindicator ago

Click the link.

Hand_of_Node ago

Thanks for the ping. Have to say, between that unsupported accusation and ban threat I received from @voat (yet to be rescinded in a follow-up pm), and this drama-fest, 'voat-coin' is crashing hard.