If you recognise there is a difference between spamming the sunb and spamming the mod queue
For the most part I don't.
There are differences in context, but the actions are the same.
Key things to keep in mind: It is only intentionally malicious users that would ever be hit with it.
As you can see in comments like this one he knows exactly what he is doing and is intentionally trying to disrupt the sub in an effort to force his wishes against the communitys.
In addition to that, the ban would be dropped if he agreed to stop abusing the sub.
Rules are made or changed by the users. We inturpret, and enforce them as best we can.
If someone wants change, they must take it up with the community, not threaten the mods.
We have periodic rule review stickys, we sticky all significant changes, and users can leave feedback or raise concerns in /v/videosModTalk or anywhere else appropriate, at any time.
He has done none of that.
He is using the threat of drama to get his way, without the community getting any input.
That will not happen. Ever.
Discussion with the community will precede any rule changes.
but this is someone whos spamming is not affecting the sub
It affects the sub.
The problem with spam is that it fills up the queues with garbage, whether the new queue or the smail queue it has the same result of slowing the activity, and causing more to slip past without inspection.
We are not opposed to discussion around that, if users feel differently.
So far though, you are the first genuine user to question the practice.
None of those fit the definition.
You've been told, if you want the definition to change, that is up to the community.
Threatening the mods in a effort to get your way, will not work.
Discuss it with the community, if they agree we would do something, if they don't care, then no amount of harrasment by you will change anything.
I don't have much time to comment, I'm at work and busy but regardless of whether they are spammers or not, a 1 month ban is ridiculous. I suggest @THC@InnocentBystander@Violentlight@Atko And @PuttItOut you all need to have a chat about this and see if heavy handed, punitive bans on defaults for genuine users is going to be the way forward.
Heavy-handed?
We gave many, many warnings. And enforce only community supported rules.
What he did was spamming.
I will say to you what I've said to him:
If you want to see the rules change, start a community dialogue. If the community wants changes made, it will happen.
But that is the only way it will happen.
We don't cater to whiners who feel the communitys wishes should be ignored because they know best.
A one month ban is not excessive. We perma-ban most spammers, so it is soft.
On top of that, he could easily get it removed if he agreed to stop.
He wont though because he is using that as an excuse to play you for a fool.
You are being used as a tool for his harassment.
I do think a 1 month ban for this offence is excessive and I think its been handed out in a situation where you cannot remain objective. I agree with others that it is a seperate issue to spamming the sub. The problem with you saying people are welcome to post a meta thread about the issue is that is useless unless it is stickied. Are you willing to sticky a thread asking the users about this specific situation? @Violentlight@THC please see my reply here.
The problem with you saying people are welcome to post a meta thread about the issue is that is useless unless it is stickied
It's getting a bit old having to repeat the exact same thing over and over.
You should know this if you have bothered to look into it before passing judgement :
If he wants to see change, then engage in discussion with the community. Post in /v/videosModTalk, or /v/whatever, or anywhere else appropriate.
If other users agree that it should be looked into, then a sticky will be made.
So far, the community does not seem to care, despite a malicious users best trolling, and some PV mods attempts to inflame it.
If you want change. Start a community dialogue. Anywhere.
Hostility, accusations, threats, demands, and such, will gain you nothing.
You should know better than to go off half-cocked, demanding answers that have already been given.
The hostility can be seen in your first comment. Not a great way to start off if honest communication is your goal. The misleading nature of your second comment is also hostile. It is painting us as if we were doing something you know is not the case.
The rest can be found spread through this post, but not by you specifically.
There's no hostility from me at all. I was frustrated at trying to post at all yesterday and still am a bit. That first comment I typed out 5 times before it let me post some form of it, lol. Also I have no idea which comment you mean by second, it could mean overall in this thread or in this chain.
a 1 month ban is ridiculous
Atko And PuttItOut you all need to have a chat about this and see if heavy handed, punitive bans on defaults for genuine users is going to be the way forward.
Disappointed is disappointed.
you cannot remain objective
That is mostly you making accusations that don't stand up to even basic scrutiny. You even called the admins before looking into it at all.
I call that hostile.
Bonus:
The problem with you saying people are welcome to post a meta thread about the issue is that is useless unless it is stickied.
You had to already know that was not the case. If you saw me say to make a meta post, then you saw me also say that we would put up a sticky if users showed interest in it.
You say you want honest dialogue, and I want to believe you. But that is not how it is coming across.
Calling the admins is something I do pretty much straightaway on defaultt subs as they are the effective owners.
You had to already know that was not the case. If you saw me say to make a meta post, then you saw me also say that we would put up a sticky if users showed interest in it.
No, I didn't because just previously the last issue I dealt with was v/news mods saying to make a rules post but refusing to say whether they would sticky it or not. Thats the reason I took the tack I did. The fact that you would be willing to says a lot. Anyway please see my reply to Violentlight where I pinged you.
Well thats the part thats confusing me. We have mentioned a few times that this issue was already discussed. We explained that to AOU many times. So your asking for a sticky to discuss something that we have already discussed. AOU is mad at a community decision on how to handle these types of posts.
But certainly, after his 1 month ban, we will be making another sticky. As with all the stickies, it will allow people to talk about any issues or topics they want to bring to our attention. But we will be sure to point out this one specifically as well.
But again, we are currently acting on the last sticky where this specific issue was discussed. When I say specific, I mean down to the user. Evrocot specifically was brought up in that discussion. We were told to let the Voats decide it.
This is all stuff we made many attempts to explain to AOU.
So we have no problem discussing it. But since we just had an empty sticky (no one responded with issues) 2 months ago, we will hold another one in 1 month. Then AOU can be active in this discussion. He can make his arguments as to what he wants spam to be defined as for v/videos.
Discussed by you 3 but not by the community, if I'm mistaken and you have discussed a scenario where someone is spamming the mod queue with users before in a sticky then I apologize but I think rather you are using a previous discussion where most users would see a "spammer" as someone spamming the actual sub. You are extrapolating that and expanding the spammer definition to cover this scenario yourselves. So your answer is you are unwilling to sticky anything that asks the users about this specific scenario until you deem this user has served "justice"? You and I both know an unstickied discussion will be buried. I am not asking whether evrocot is deemed spammer on your sub, I think I've made that more than clear.
Oh I see. Ya, so you want to talk about how to handle if someone is misusing the spam report button?
Here is how I see the misuse of the spam report button. This thread has gotten pretty large, so I can't remember who said it. But someone said that AOU is a monkey on crack, but that we should just ignore it.
I find the spam report button is a tool. One that is very, very helpful. It allows the community to get stuff to our attention quickly. I love it. I can't wait till they add notifications back to it. Because I just love the damn thing. But to say that we should just ignore people who misuse it, is taking personal responsibility away from the user. We didn't see him report 6 posts and then ban him. He reported a bunch of posts, we explained why they were not considered spam. He reported the same type of posts, we explained why its not spam. He started to just ramp up the reports as we continued to try and explain that the community does not want us to delete it. The same treatment happens with all the reports of spam we get when someone had their feelings hurt and wanted us to step in. We tell them that is not what we do. We tell them to not abuse the report spam button.
We explained it as much as we could until AOU made it clear he had no intention of using the button to actually help us. But to use the button to make a point. So then we gave him a final warning, letting him know that the next time would be a 1 month ban. We made it very clear. Next day another 6 reports of the same stuff that we cannot do anything about. So he got a 1 month ban.
I'm just confused why personal responsibility is being removed from AOU. We had told him many times to bring his concerns to the next community discussion. Because we cannot make changes to the rules without the community telling us to. So AOU could have collected his data. Worked on his argument, and then brought it to the community. We had recently had a sticky that had no response. The sticky asked v/videos to let us know any issues. Not even issues, just talk to us. About anything. But no one did.
I think @THC mentioned it earlier that the community wanted us to deal with spammers with permanent bans. We actually tweaked that a little with the 1 month temp ban to create some leniency.
I'm sorry, I really was mis-understanding you before. But I get that the issue your concerned with is that AOU got banned for the misuse of the spam report button. So I'm just wondering why AOU gets no accountability? Why are we treating him like a child that can scream to get his way. We didn't surprise him with this. We worked hard to help him understand that it was a community decision that we are simply enforcing. We told him straight up that continued misuse of the button would lead to a 1 month ban. He continued. So I'm a little confused how that becomes our fault? We are not springing this on him like a surprise. He knew exactly what he was doing. We provided his options to bring this issue to the community.
I totally get what your saying about the issue not getting viability without a sticky. But we are not going to create a sticky so soon after the (very empty) one we just had because one single user is freaking out. We certainly heard his complaints. It certainly was going to be brought up in the next sticky. But he just had to wait till the next sticky. I get that he thinks its spam and should removed. The community disagrees and we have to function off of the communities wishes.
But ultimately, I just don't understand why we are taking personal responsibility away from AOU.
I'm not trying to dodge your questions. I honestly just mis-heard(read... understood?) your point. So please let me know if I'm still missing your point entirely still.
No you got it right this time I am focused completely on the 1 month ban in THIS PARTICUlAR situation and if it should carry the same punishment you deal out to spammers of the sub who fit in to the traditional definition of a spammer on Voat or not. I'm not convinced yet either if a sticky on v/videos would be appropriate and I think this discussion might be enough. I did want to hear whether or not you would sticky one if made though. People are also focused on the election and its just been a few of us in here despite the high amount of posts. I would like to see more input from others on this and I doubt we'll get that given the timing and your post has provided a bit more background information as well. Let me think on it some more. @InnocentBystander@THC
I did want to hear whether or not you would sticky one if made though.
At this point no.
But if more users were concerned, we would.
We're not going to put up a sticky when 1-3 users are upset over something, we try to keep the number of stickys down. It is a video sub. Stickys also get less attention where there is always one up, people stop paying attention to it.
It is definitely something we will bring up in the next feedback post, but not something that merits a new sticky now.
If that changes, so will our stance.
@AOU are you willing to stop making reports about the users like evrocot at least until next month when the mods of v/videos make a sticky and people/you can bring up those those specific posts to the users of the sub? I'd assume that the mods wouldn't mind if you still reported the traditional spammers in that time if you were unbanned like they said you would be if you made a deal to stop the multiple reports until the users address it. @THC@InnocentBystander@Violentlight correct me if I've misinterpreted anything you've said regarding this. @AOU in this way you'll get your opportunity to address the situation in a way where you might get a resolution and more eyes on what you see as a problem highlighted. With the election going on and if the user and the mods can agree here then this might be the best resolution we get. How about it guys?
We discussed it. If he agrees to only report posts that fit the subs definition of spam, then we will lift the temp-ban.
If he does it again, the ban goes back into effect until it's original end-date.
But he has not even asked for it to be removed, and I'll be surprised if he agrees to that.
Slight modification to the wording:
If he agrees to not make reports on any posts that do not fit the subs definition of spam.
If he agrees to that, we would probably remove it. But I would have to discuss that with the other mods first.
I doubt he will though. This is the only thing he has to hold against us. He's drama whoring.
You have delved into attacks and I was trying to lighten the mood. That you are unable to separate yourself from the actual discussion at hand is telling.
if they wanted you to start enforcing their spamming rules would you make a sticky and let the community decide?
If 'they' means a number of users, then yes. Definitely.
What if AOU was right? Not about you specifically but hypothetically a couple of spammers like Evrocot got control of v/videos? Do you think thats a risk?
At this point I have seen no signs of that in any of the big subs, and I don't expect it in the near future. We're still too small for there to be the kind of $$ to draw that effort.
We face different opponents right now. Ranging from Eastern Lightning cultists, to click-spam. It is always evolving.
The last general feedback post was about 2 months ago.
If more than one users wanted us to, we would.
But if it is just one user, we encourage them to make a post. If people show interest, then we would make a sticky.
And I do care what Atko thinks. But I am firm on free speech, and limits for mods.
Atko always has been too. But if he ever change his mind, I wouldn't.
As a user of voat, I am free to render any opinion or judgment as I see fit. A user has brought an issue to the attention of the community and we all have the right to weigh in, regardless of whether this apparently ruffles your feathers or not.
You seem to have missed that I linked your mod log as my first comment in this post, not only for other users to observed but to reflect that I took the time to evaluate whether this post was bullshit. Obviously, this discussion has merit.
I am free to make any comments or demands that I choose, you know that this is how voat works, and you of course are free to ignore me or any other wishes of the community.
What you should not ignore is the trust that the Admins have placed in you as a moderator of a Default Sub to respect and follow the wishes of the community and them.
But when your opinion is half-baked at best, he has the right to respond in whatever way he feels.
We created that sub in a effort to be even more open than Voat already was.
We link to it in the side bar and encourage users to spy on us.
We encourage them to join the conversation if they have something to say.
They can make posts of any kind about any issue there and get our attention, and a response.
We sticky all significant conversations in /v/videos itself.
Lately we use that sticky to link to a feedback in /v/videosModTalk, so that users, and us, can find past conversations easier.
And after showing that much effort, you pipe up with bullshit about us not being open?
Deal with his annoyance. He'd of been justified if he'd been worse.
C'mon, now you're trying to put words in my mouth - I simply suggested that having a separate sub is a little reddit-y and that having discussion in the sub itself is more in keeping with Voat's philosophy.
having a separate sub is a little reddit-y and that having discussion in the sub itself is more in keeping with Voat's philosophy.
Is that there putting words in your mouth too?
"Reddit-y"?
You've got to be fucking with me right?
We use public comments, instead of PMs, and you think that is reddit-y?
We made and use the sub so that all history can be found easily, at any time. reddit-y?!
Do you understand why people are here at Voat
Cyna, you're making me sad. You're one of my fav users. But this is really not cool.
I can see your point, but I am not looking at it as an annoying user. I've had a few of them, and just ignore them.
He is knowingly, and maliciously abusing the sub.
Having to sort through his spam slows us from our other tasks.
It was explained many times, we have offered him alternative means to get what he wants.
That fits our posted definition for spam, and will be treated the same.
We are, as always, open to feedback, but that is how it stands.
What kind of concerns me here is that you have defined spam above and beyond the definition for the site, and it seems to me that this is really what we need to stick to here. If this were a niche sub, I'd say nuke this guy from fucking orbit with prejudice.
This is something that has been talked about more than once.
Some of the oldest are hard to find because we used to make the mistake of posting them in the sub. But I can probably dig up a few if you'd like. Some related stuff can also be found in /v/videosModTalk.
We do not use the self-promotion site-wide rule.
Otherwise, the spam definition is more of less the same. It was never clearly specified in the Voat rule, so we came up with one, with the community. That is what we will use, until someone comes up with something the community would prefer.
The reason we do not use the self-promotion aspect is because /v/videos has never had a problem with spam from that source, but we have been getting some good, valued, OC from it.
Users have had their say, and will be consulted again as things progress.
But we're not gonna get worked up or make a sticky when one user disagrees with the community consensus.
He has every right to report what he believes is spam in a Default subverse; it's absolutely no different than account that post the same content over and over and over again (spAmalek).
Atko has given us his thoughts on what should be given attention in these system subs that we've been entrusted with and that's to leave shit alone. Why is it such a difficult concept to ignore this OP's reports?
So you're calling AOU a spammer because he hits the report spam button too much??
Dude, do you know how many report-spam messages I get to delete Amalek's rantings on v/whatever? It's a shitton, but no matter how nuts he is, he's not ad spam hitting a default subverse so these reports get ignored, and that's what you guys need to be doing too.
We don't get to pick and chose on the Defaults -- these belong to @Atko and @PuttitOut and the entire Voat Community.
Please, reverse the ban and just ignore his reports if they have no merit.
You guys have a separate subverse to discuss matters concerning the sub? Do you post a sticky to the main sub so that all the users are aware of this sidebar conversation??
The point of the sub is so that users can spy on us and see what we're talking about.
We also have started posting feedback threads there, then posting a link to it as a sticky in /v/videos. That way after a couple weeks or whatever when we take the sticky down, the feedback post can be easily found.
This way users can stay in the loop, and add their say at any time.
Edit:
It also allows banned users to see what led to the ban, and a place they can post/comment to appeal it.
I noted the linking in the sidebar but if you have an active conversation on a matter that really concerns the community, seems like the most transparent course of action is to post a sticky to the subverse for all to see. Having a separate sub for 'mod talk' is a bit on the reddit-y side and never seems to go very well on Voat.
You should really take a closer look before making accusations.
Visit the sub. Look at what we talk about.
Do you really think we should make a discussion post in /v/videos for each of those comments?
Really?
We put a sticky up in /v/videos for every big event or decision, or if it has been a while since we had much feedback.
Point to one mod on this site, including you that is more transparent and open to the community as we are.
My only accusation at this point is that I think you guys have made a very wrong decision banning a user because he apparently bugged you too much. I observed and commented that having a separate subverse for mod-conversations, even if the sub is open to all, is not really in keeping with how a Default should be run; at least that's my take from some of the comments made at various times by Admins.
And yes, I think it's in the best interest of the community to have conversations IN THE COMMUNITY that is directly being affected as opposed to in a different subverse, again, especially if the sub is a default.
I'm truly not trying to get into a pissing contest here but I still stand by my opinion that banning a user for bugging you all with spam reports too much is a crappy move for a Default, even if you have warned this user 1000 times. Time and again, Admins have urged us to go the way of leniency and to "calm our tits" on the Defaults, and I just don't see that happening in this instance.
and commented that having a separate subverse for mod-conversations, even if the sub is open to all, is not really in keeping with how a Default should be run;
There it is.
That is where your head is backwards.
You think we should do it all in PMs and make arbitrary calls?
You can do what you want. But that is not how we choose to operate.
Everything that can be public, will be.
I think it's in the best interest of the community to have conversations IN THE COMMUNITY that is directly being affected as opposed to in a different subverse,
Oh? You can't? How about the last few? Simple eh?
Starting to understand why we post them there now?
A sticky goes up for a few weeks. We make it a link to a post there that can be found forever, instead of one that gets lost forever the moment we unsticky it.
This is what I mean by 'half-baked'. You're not thinking this through before stopping at conclusions.
I think for this OP to call you guys paid spammers is crap and you'll notice that I didn't even address this in my comment. It was dumb tactic that did not even warrant my attention.
That said, v/Videos is a DEFAULT sub and the only thing you should be banning are spammers who do not heed your warnings, period. Like it or not, the report spam function serves a purpose and I get a ton of these very same reports, but I'm not about to ban a user for abusing the button. Believe me, I appreciate your frustration, but just Ignore his reports and Move on.
@InnocentBystander@THC@Violentlight :: As mods of a Default Subverse, I don't think you have any business banning a user for reporting what they perceive to be as spam. No one says you have to do anything about it, but this is NOT COOL. Please reverse this ban at once as it is utter bullshit.
Hey there. It seems I've shown up late to this 'party'. So for a while now AOU has been reporting Evrocot posts as spam. Among others of course. But Evrocot is the most recognizable, so I'll be using his name as the example. I personally, and I believe @THC and @InnocentBystander have explained to him as well, that Evrocot was discussed specifically with the community. We also tried to explain and make the subs definition of spam clear. We made multiple attempts to explain that he was not actually reporting spam. We consider it an abuse of the report spam button. The reason we try to explain it so many times, is because we do certainly appreciate the communities help in tracking down the spam. Makes our jobs easier, and holy hell, I love that.
The problem is that we have a lot of people who use the report spam button to try and silence someone because they disagree. That is one of the reasons I became a mod. I figured that I bitch so much about what happened at reddit, I might as well do something to help protect Voat from the same fate. So when we run into people who are using the report spam button to try and silence someone because their fee fees got hurt, we explain what the button is for. We tell them not to abuse the button, because we are not stepping in to silence anyone. We protect the users from action thats prevalent in reddit right now. You simply call on the mods to smite your foes. You call on this team of mods to shut down a discussion, and your the one in trouble. We work very hard to work as the community has told us to. We don't consult with the admins, we consult with the community. So there is a site-wide definition of spam that the v/videos community doesn't fully agree with. Because it would actually be harmful to our Original Content providers. Some of who have put front page content on Voat, exclusive to Voat. Thats pretty cool. So we modified the sub definition of spam based on the feedback from the community.
Our modding is to protect the community from having a screaming minority make changes to the rules that the majority has decided upon. In this case, we have 1 user asking us to take action against accounts that we have already discussed with the community. The consensus is to let the Voats decide with these videos. We specifically asked how they wanted us to proceed with Evrocot. We were told specifically to let the voats decide. Since that is what the community has asked for, we defend it. We defend it from anyone who tries to compromise that.
So we explained to AOU many times where we were coming from. We asked many times for him to not abuse the report spam button. But he made it clear that he was going to continue to abuse it. He also made it clear that he was going to ramp it up. It was his idea of a protest to us not taking action against the videos. We let him know that continued abuse would lead to a ban. He continued. He continued so he had something tangible to take to Protect Voat. But we had told him that if he really thought that it should change, that he can discuss it with the community. He never said anything in our last sticky.
As THC and InnocentBystander have already mentioned. We create a sticky in v/videos that links to our v/videosmodtalk for discussion. It stays at the top where every visitor to v/videos can see it. It invites everyone to please let us know if there is any issues. Because we want to know. We want to make sure we are still working with the community. We want to make sure we are being the mods they expect us to be. In the interm, we have places in v/videosmodtalk for anyone to start a discussion. From there, we can create an early sticky to deal with any situation that appears to be an issue.
But I just can't apologize for trying to protect Voat from reddits fate. Allowing a very loud single person demand that we break community created guidelines and rules because he doesnt agree with them, is exactly how reddit functions.
I still think 1 month as an initial ban is way too much. You could even ask the users now what they think or link back to this comment. Sorry, I wont be able to reply again for a few hours(if this even gets through) the site has swallowed my comment 5 times already.
Oh crap, forgot to say. The 1 month ban is the time period we always use for temp bans. So that was nothing personal. We remain consistent in that so we are not putting any bias into it. 1 month ban has always been the first ban length.
AOU has made it clear that he is using Spam Report as some kind of protest. We had a sticky 2 months ago. As we mentioned before. This issue was specifically discussed with the community. This is simply one user who does not like that these users keep getting to post in the sub. Nothing we can do about that. We have tried to talk this through with him many times. Even now, his argument to Protect Voat is more posts he wants us to remove. He is barely even arguing about his ban. He is trying to convince Protect Voat that he is right and that we are not doing our jobs. We cannot, and will not be removing the posts he has deemed unworthy of v/videos. These are posts that fit in the guidelines. So this single user does not get say over v/videos. AOU does not get to override what the community wants.
AOU has had a problem with what we consider spam for a while. But he still made no effort to bring it up in our last sticky.
After our many attempts to explain this all to him, we told him that further abuse of the spam report button would lead to a temp ban. He continued because he wanted something tangible to bring to Protect Voat. I love you guys, but in this case, hes trying to use you. Hes not even trying to use you to remove his ban. He wants us to change how we mod v/videos because he feels hes right. We can't change the definition without the community. Hes the only one telling us that the current definition is wrong. We have invited him to bring it up in the next community discussion so we can be sure that the communities feelings on the issue have not changed.
We have not been unreasonable. In order to keep our spam report button useful, we are holding a user accountable. He is simply using the spam report button as protest now. Hes not using it to help. He has made that clear. He is not protesting his ban. Hes protesting community guidelines.
So this is why the 1 month ban is fine. It gives him time to try and convince Protect Voat that v/video rules and guidelines are wrong. It gives Protect Voat the time to look into this and realize that we are working with and for the community. It gives you time to find out that this is one user having a tantrum because we refuse to work for a single user.
When his 1 month ban is over, we can create another sticky. He will have time to calm down. He will have the time to create his case with examples. As he has done in this post 6 hours ago. But so far, everything he has provided was specifically discussed in previous stickies. We are not trying to avoid discussion on this topic. We are simply trying to avoid a single user manipulating the situation to try and get his way regardless of what the community wants.
He received many warnings, the ban is only temporary, and we reverse bans when the person agrees to stop abusing the sub.
But he was spamming us with reports that did not fit the criteria. Ironically, he's spamming.
He is a monkey on crack hitting the report button but he is not ad spam for removal, and he may be an idiot for doing so, but ad spam is the only crap that should be addressed by mods in the default subverses.
Manhood, Spamalak, Insane cultists, and others are no better than ads
It's hard to disagree that these are annoying as all get out, but I'm not sure that Atko would agree with this guideline on your sidebar especially in light of his recent visit to v/News
Honestly, I don't care.
I have a great deal of respect for the guy. But..
We run it how the community wishes. End of debate, as far as I am concerned.
We are always listening. And as I've said to AOU, make a post and start a dialogue with the community if he wants change.
No one person will decide, not AOU, not even if it was Atko.
But I think that Atko is happy if the community is anyway.
I just looked at the Hot and New pages, and it didn't seem super spam filled, but maybe I'm not sure which posters you're referring to.
Anyway, this topic has come up before, specifically with Evrocot, and if I'm not mistaken the general consensus was to leave him be and just downvote if ya don't like it, or upload higher quality vids, because the amount of content submitted is rather low.
AOU ago
lol
InnocentBystander ago
For the most part I don't.
There are differences in context, but the actions are the same.
Key things to keep in mind: It is only intentionally malicious users that would ever be hit with it.
As you can see in comments like this one he knows exactly what he is doing and is intentionally trying to disrupt the sub in an effort to force his wishes against the communitys.
In addition to that, the ban would be dropped if he agreed to stop abusing the sub.
Rules are made or changed by the users. We inturpret, and enforce them as best we can.
If someone wants change, they must take it up with the community, not threaten the mods.
We have periodic rule review stickys, we sticky all significant changes, and users can leave feedback or raise concerns in /v/videosModTalk or anywhere else appropriate, at any time.
He has done none of that.
He is using the threat of drama to get his way, without the community getting any input.
That will not happen. Ever.
Discussion with the community will precede any rule changes.
InnocentBystander ago
It affects the sub.
The problem with spam is that it fills up the queues with garbage, whether the new queue or the smail queue it has the same result of slowing the activity, and causing more to slip past without inspection.
We are not opposed to discussion around that, if users feel differently.
So far though, you are the first genuine user to question the practice.
InnocentBystander ago
No.
The community decided on perma-bans, but we felt being more lenient would be appropriate in this case.
InnocentBystander ago
If you don't like the community wishes, talk to them.
We don't choose the rules, they do.
InnocentBystander ago
Not 'redefined'.
It had never been defined.
The community was consulted and a usable one added.
I'm sorry if you don't like the community wishes. But that is how we will do things until the community changes its mind.
Cuckbot ago
No, you didn't ban a spammer of a default sub you banned someone who was spamming you mods.
AOU ago
Mods of /v/videos said:
Let the community decide, but let's ban those who go against our thoughts.
Example of spam in v/videos in the past hours:
https://voat.co/v/videos/1396004 (obvious spambot tagged as news/politic by mods. lol)
https://voat.co/v/videos/1395987 (seems like the community didn't like his spam)
https://voat.co/v/videos/1396086 (obvious youtube channel spam for revenues tagged as OC by mods. lol)
https://voat.co/v/videos/1396108 (yet another spammer that is under protection of the mods)
https://voat.co/v/videos/1396500 (and another one)
https://voat.co/v/videos/1395374 (and another VIP one)
https://voat.co/v/videos/1395269 (and again the VIP one)
https://voat.co/v/videos/1395278 (and a new one)
Edit: And 3 more.
https://voat.co/v/videos/1397029
https://voat.co/v/videos/1397008
https://voat.co/v/videos/1396405
There are much more, and you can see it for yourself.
InnocentBystander ago
None of those fit the definition.
You've been told, if you want the definition to change, that is up to the community.
Threatening the mods in a effort to get your way, will not work.
Discuss it with the community, if they agree we would do something, if they don't care, then no amount of harrasment by you will change anything.
AOU ago
TL;DR Fuck you for not agreeing with me.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is a mod of default subs!
AOU ago
Well, they seem to be far more active at telling voaters not to report spammers, than taking care of them.
Disappointed ago
I don't have much time to comment, I'm at work and busy but regardless of whether they are spammers or not, a 1 month ban is ridiculous. I suggest @THC @InnocentBystander @Violentlight @Atko And @PuttItOut you all need to have a chat about this and see if heavy handed, punitive bans on defaults for genuine users is going to be the way forward.
Disappointed is disappointed.
InnocentBystander ago
Heavy-handed?
We gave many, many warnings. And enforce only community supported rules.
What he did was spamming.
I will say to you what I've said to him:
If you want to see the rules change, start a community dialogue. If the community wants changes made, it will happen.
But that is the only way it will happen.
We don't cater to whiners who feel the communitys wishes should be ignored because they know best.
A one month ban is not excessive. We perma-ban most spammers, so it is soft.
On top of that, he could easily get it removed if he agreed to stop.
He wont though because he is using that as an excuse to play you for a fool.
You are being used as a tool for his harassment.
Disappointed ago
I do think a 1 month ban for this offence is excessive and I think its been handed out in a situation where you cannot remain objective. I agree with others that it is a seperate issue to spamming the sub. The problem with you saying people are welcome to post a meta thread about the issue is that is useless unless it is stickied. Are you willing to sticky a thread asking the users about this specific situation? @Violentlight @THC please see my reply here.
InnocentBystander ago
It's getting a bit old having to repeat the exact same thing over and over.
You should know this if you have bothered to look into it before passing judgement :
If he wants to see change, then engage in discussion with the community. Post in /v/videosModTalk, or /v/whatever, or anywhere else appropriate.
If other users agree that it should be looked into, then a sticky will be made.
So far, the community does not seem to care, despite a malicious users best trolling, and some PV mods attempts to inflame it.
If you want change. Start a community dialogue. Anywhere.
Hostility, accusations, threats, demands, and such, will gain you nothing.
You should know better than to go off half-cocked, demanding answers that have already been given.
Disappointed ago
We are having a dialogue right here and a discussion right here.
Where have I done any of these?
Where have I done this?
InnocentBystander ago
The hostility can be seen in your first comment. Not a great way to start off if honest communication is your goal. The misleading nature of your second comment is also hostile. It is painting us as if we were doing something you know is not the case.
The rest can be found spread through this post, but not by you specifically.
The point is, attacking is not the way forward.
Disappointed ago
There's no hostility from me at all. I was frustrated at trying to post at all yesterday and still am a bit. That first comment I typed out 5 times before it let me post some form of it, lol. Also I have no idea which comment you mean by second, it could mean overall in this thread or in this chain.
InnocentBystander ago
That is mostly you making accusations that don't stand up to even basic scrutiny. You even called the admins before looking into it at all.
I call that hostile.
Bonus:
You had to already know that was not the case. If you saw me say to make a meta post, then you saw me also say that we would put up a sticky if users showed interest in it.
You say you want honest dialogue, and I want to believe you. But that is not how it is coming across.
Disappointed ago
Calling the admins is something I do pretty much straightaway on defaultt subs as they are the effective owners.
No, I didn't because just previously the last issue I dealt with was v/news mods saying to make a rules post but refusing to say whether they would sticky it or not. Thats the reason I took the tack I did. The fact that you would be willing to says a lot. Anyway please see my reply to Violentlight where I pinged you.
Violentlight ago
Well thats the part thats confusing me. We have mentioned a few times that this issue was already discussed. We explained that to AOU many times. So your asking for a sticky to discuss something that we have already discussed. AOU is mad at a community decision on how to handle these types of posts.
But certainly, after his 1 month ban, we will be making another sticky. As with all the stickies, it will allow people to talk about any issues or topics they want to bring to our attention. But we will be sure to point out this one specifically as well.
But again, we are currently acting on the last sticky where this specific issue was discussed. When I say specific, I mean down to the user. Evrocot specifically was brought up in that discussion. We were told to let the Voats decide it.
This is all stuff we made many attempts to explain to AOU.
So we have no problem discussing it. But since we just had an empty sticky (no one responded with issues) 2 months ago, we will hold another one in 1 month. Then AOU can be active in this discussion. He can make his arguments as to what he wants spam to be defined as for v/videos.
@InnocentBystander @THC
Disappointed ago
Discussed by you 3 but not by the community, if I'm mistaken and you have discussed a scenario where someone is spamming the mod queue with users before in a sticky then I apologize but I think rather you are using a previous discussion where most users would see a "spammer" as someone spamming the actual sub. You are extrapolating that and expanding the spammer definition to cover this scenario yourselves. So your answer is you are unwilling to sticky anything that asks the users about this specific scenario until you deem this user has served "justice"? You and I both know an unstickied discussion will be buried. I am not asking whether evrocot is deemed spammer on your sub, I think I've made that more than clear.
Violentlight ago
Oh I see. Ya, so you want to talk about how to handle if someone is misusing the spam report button?
Here is how I see the misuse of the spam report button. This thread has gotten pretty large, so I can't remember who said it. But someone said that AOU is a monkey on crack, but that we should just ignore it.
I find the spam report button is a tool. One that is very, very helpful. It allows the community to get stuff to our attention quickly. I love it. I can't wait till they add notifications back to it. Because I just love the damn thing. But to say that we should just ignore people who misuse it, is taking personal responsibility away from the user. We didn't see him report 6 posts and then ban him. He reported a bunch of posts, we explained why they were not considered spam. He reported the same type of posts, we explained why its not spam. He started to just ramp up the reports as we continued to try and explain that the community does not want us to delete it. The same treatment happens with all the reports of spam we get when someone had their feelings hurt and wanted us to step in. We tell them that is not what we do. We tell them to not abuse the report spam button.
We explained it as much as we could until AOU made it clear he had no intention of using the button to actually help us. But to use the button to make a point. So then we gave him a final warning, letting him know that the next time would be a 1 month ban. We made it very clear. Next day another 6 reports of the same stuff that we cannot do anything about. So he got a 1 month ban.
I'm just confused why personal responsibility is being removed from AOU. We had told him many times to bring his concerns to the next community discussion. Because we cannot make changes to the rules without the community telling us to. So AOU could have collected his data. Worked on his argument, and then brought it to the community. We had recently had a sticky that had no response. The sticky asked v/videos to let us know any issues. Not even issues, just talk to us. About anything. But no one did.
I think @THC mentioned it earlier that the community wanted us to deal with spammers with permanent bans. We actually tweaked that a little with the 1 month temp ban to create some leniency.
I'm sorry, I really was mis-understanding you before. But I get that the issue your concerned with is that AOU got banned for the misuse of the spam report button. So I'm just wondering why AOU gets no accountability? Why are we treating him like a child that can scream to get his way. We didn't surprise him with this. We worked hard to help him understand that it was a community decision that we are simply enforcing. We told him straight up that continued misuse of the button would lead to a 1 month ban. He continued. So I'm a little confused how that becomes our fault? We are not springing this on him like a surprise. He knew exactly what he was doing. We provided his options to bring this issue to the community.
I totally get what your saying about the issue not getting viability without a sticky. But we are not going to create a sticky so soon after the (very empty) one we just had because one single user is freaking out. We certainly heard his complaints. It certainly was going to be brought up in the next sticky. But he just had to wait till the next sticky. I get that he thinks its spam and should removed. The community disagrees and we have to function off of the communities wishes.
But ultimately, I just don't understand why we are taking personal responsibility away from AOU.
I'm not trying to dodge your questions. I honestly just mis-heard(read... understood?) your point. So please let me know if I'm still missing your point entirely still.
@InnocentBystander
Disappointed ago
No you got it right this time I am focused completely on the 1 month ban in THIS PARTICUlAR situation and if it should carry the same punishment you deal out to spammers of the sub who fit in to the traditional definition of a spammer on Voat or not. I'm not convinced yet either if a sticky on v/videos would be appropriate and I think this discussion might be enough. I did want to hear whether or not you would sticky one if made though. People are also focused on the election and its just been a few of us in here despite the high amount of posts. I would like to see more input from others on this and I doubt we'll get that given the timing and your post has provided a bit more background information as well. Let me think on it some more. @InnocentBystander @THC
InnocentBystander ago
At this point no.
But if more users were concerned, we would.
We're not going to put up a sticky when 1-3 users are upset over something, we try to keep the number of stickys down. It is a video sub. Stickys also get less attention where there is always one up, people stop paying attention to it.
It is definitely something we will bring up in the next feedback post, but not something that merits a new sticky now.
If that changes, so will our stance.
Disappointed ago
@AOU are you willing to stop making reports about the users like evrocot at least until next month when the mods of v/videos make a sticky and people/you can bring up those those specific posts to the users of the sub? I'd assume that the mods wouldn't mind if you still reported the traditional spammers in that time if you were unbanned like they said you would be if you made a deal to stop the multiple reports until the users address it. @THC @InnocentBystander @Violentlight correct me if I've misinterpreted anything you've said regarding this. @AOU in this way you'll get your opportunity to address the situation in a way where you might get a resolution and more eyes on what you see as a problem highlighted. With the election going on and if the user and the mods can agree here then this might be the best resolution we get. How about it guys?
InnocentBystander ago
We discussed it. If he agrees to only report posts that fit the subs definition of spam, then we will lift the temp-ban.
If he does it again, the ban goes back into effect until it's original end-date.
But he has not even asked for it to be removed, and I'll be surprised if he agrees to that.
@AOU @THC @Violentlight
Disappointed ago
Alright thanks let's see what comes of it.
InnocentBystander ago
Slight modification to the wording:
If he agrees to not make reports on any posts that do not fit the subs definition of spam.
If he agrees to that, we would probably remove it. But I would have to discuss that with the other mods first.
I doubt he will though. This is the only thing he has to hold against us. He's drama whoring.
Cynabuns ago
You have delved into attacks and I was trying to lighten the mood. That you are unable to separate yourself from the actual discussion at hand is telling.
InnocentBystander ago
If 'they' means a number of users, then yes. Definitely.
At this point I have seen no signs of that in any of the big subs, and I don't expect it in the near future. We're still too small for there to be the kind of $$ to draw that effort.
We face different opponents right now. Ranging from Eastern Lightning cultists, to click-spam. It is always evolving.
Cynabuns ago
Ya no thank you; you seem a little too grumpy even for a pity fuck.
InnocentBystander ago
The last general feedback post was about 2 months ago.
If more than one users wanted us to, we would.
But if it is just one user, we encourage them to make a post. If people show interest, then we would make a sticky.
And I do care what Atko thinks. But I am firm on free speech, and limits for mods.
Atko always has been too. But if he ever change his mind, I wouldn't.
Cynabuns ago
As a user of voat, I am free to render any opinion or judgment as I see fit. A user has brought an issue to the attention of the community and we all have the right to weigh in, regardless of whether this apparently ruffles your feathers or not.
You seem to have missed that I linked your mod log as my first comment in this post, not only for other users to observed but to reflect that I took the time to evaluate whether this post was bullshit. Obviously, this discussion has merit.
I am free to make any comments or demands that I choose, you know that this is how voat works, and you of course are free to ignore me or any other wishes of the community.
What you should not ignore is the trust that the Admins have placed in you as a moderator of a Default Sub to respect and follow the wishes of the community and them.
InnocentBystander ago
You have that right.
But when your opinion is half-baked at best, he has the right to respond in whatever way he feels.
We created that sub in a effort to be even more open than Voat already was.
We link to it in the side bar and encourage users to spy on us.
We encourage them to join the conversation if they have something to say.
They can make posts of any kind about any issue there and get our attention, and a response.
We sticky all significant conversations in /v/videos itself.
Lately we use that sticky to link to a feedback in /v/videosModTalk, so that users, and us, can find past conversations easier.
And after showing that much effort, you pipe up with bullshit about us not being open?
Deal with his annoyance. He'd of been justified if he'd been worse.
Cynabuns ago
C'mon, now you're trying to put words in my mouth - I simply suggested that having a separate sub is a little reddit-y and that having discussion in the sub itself is more in keeping with Voat's philosophy.
InnocentBystander ago
Is that there putting words in your mouth too?
"Reddit-y"?
You've got to be fucking with me right?
We use public comments, instead of PMs, and you think that is reddit-y?
We made and use the sub so that all history can be found easily, at any time. reddit-y?!
Do you understand why people are here at Voat
Cyna, you're making me sad. You're one of my fav users. But this is really not cool.
Cynabuns ago
You are one of my favorite too, IB, and this damn sure isn't a road I want to go down with you, any of you.
Can we instead get back to the issue at hand, which is banning a user for simply bugging you guys too much, please?
InnocentBystander ago
Lets do that.
That one is a fair question.
I can see your point, but I am not looking at it as an annoying user. I've had a few of them, and just ignore them.
He is knowingly, and maliciously abusing the sub.
Having to sort through his spam slows us from our other tasks.
It was explained many times, we have offered him alternative means to get what he wants.
That fits our posted definition for spam, and will be treated the same.
We are, as always, open to feedback, but that is how it stands.
Edit:
Grammer
Cynabuns ago
What kind of concerns me here is that you have defined spam above and beyond the definition for the site, and it seems to me that this is really what we need to stick to here. If this were a niche sub, I'd say nuke this guy from fucking orbit with prejudice.
InnocentBystander ago
This is something that has been talked about more than once.
Some of the oldest are hard to find because we used to make the mistake of posting them in the sub. But I can probably dig up a few if you'd like. Some related stuff can also be found in /v/videosModTalk.
We do not use the self-promotion site-wide rule.
Otherwise, the spam definition is more of less the same. It was never clearly specified in the Voat rule, so we came up with one, with the community. That is what we will use, until someone comes up with something the community would prefer.
The reason we do not use the self-promotion aspect is because /v/videos has never had a problem with spam from that source, but we have been getting some good, valued, OC from it.
Users have had their say, and will be consulted again as things progress.
But we're not gonna get worked up or make a sticky when one user disagrees with the community consensus.
Cynabuns ago
He has every right to report what he believes is spam in a Default subverse; it's absolutely no different than account that post the same content over and over and over again (spAmalek).
Atko has given us his thoughts on what should be given attention in these system subs that we've been entrusted with and that's to leave shit alone. Why is it such a difficult concept to ignore this OP's reports?
Cynabuns ago
So you're calling AOU a spammer because he hits the report spam button too much??
Dude, do you know how many report-spam messages I get to delete Amalek's rantings on v/whatever? It's a shitton, but no matter how nuts he is, he's not ad spam hitting a default subverse so these reports get ignored, and that's what you guys need to be doing too.
We don't get to pick and chose on the Defaults -- these belong to @Atko and @PuttitOut and the entire Voat Community.
Please, reverse the ban and just ignore his reports if they have no merit.
InnocentBystander ago
Relevant convorsation
As we explained, many times, to him, we enforce community rules only. We have had multiple conversations with the community about exactly this.
We are always open to feedback and new ideas. But one guy by himself means little when the rest of the community has had its say and seems content.
Cynabuns ago
You guys have a separate subverse to discuss matters concerning the sub? Do you post a sticky to the main sub so that all the users are aware of this sidebar conversation??
InnocentBystander ago
It is linked in the sidebar.
The point of the sub is so that users can spy on us and see what we're talking about.
We also have started posting feedback threads there, then posting a link to it as a sticky in /v/videos. That way after a couple weeks or whatever when we take the sticky down, the feedback post can be easily found.
This way users can stay in the loop, and add their say at any time.
Edit:
It also allows banned users to see what led to the ban, and a place they can post/comment to appeal it.
Cynabuns ago
I noted the linking in the sidebar but if you have an active conversation on a matter that really concerns the community, seems like the most transparent course of action is to post a sticky to the subverse for all to see. Having a separate sub for 'mod talk' is a bit on the reddit-y side and never seems to go very well on Voat.
InnocentBystander ago
You should really take a closer look before making accusations.
Visit the sub. Look at what we talk about.
Do you really think we should make a discussion post in /v/videos for each of those comments?
Really?
We put a sticky up in /v/videos for every big event or decision, or if it has been a while since we had much feedback.
Point to one mod on this site, including you that is more transparent and open to the community as we are.
Cynabuns ago
My only accusation at this point is that I think you guys have made a very wrong decision banning a user because he apparently bugged you too much. I observed and commented that having a separate subverse for mod-conversations, even if the sub is open to all, is not really in keeping with how a Default should be run; at least that's my take from some of the comments made at various times by Admins.
And yes, I think it's in the best interest of the community to have conversations IN THE COMMUNITY that is directly being affected as opposed to in a different subverse, again, especially if the sub is a default.
I'm truly not trying to get into a pissing contest here but I still stand by my opinion that banning a user for bugging you all with spam reports too much is a crappy move for a Default, even if you have warned this user 1000 times. Time and again, Admins have urged us to go the way of leniency and to "calm our tits" on the Defaults, and I just don't see that happening in this instance.
InnocentBystander ago
There it is.
That is where your head is backwards.
You think we should do it all in PMs and make arbitrary calls?
You can do what you want. But that is not how we choose to operate.
Everything that can be public, will be.
Go find the first rules post in /v/videos.
Oh? You can't? How about the last few? Simple eh?
Starting to understand why we post them there now?
A sticky goes up for a few weeks. We make it a link to a post there that can be found forever, instead of one that gets lost forever the moment we unsticky it.
This is what I mean by 'half-baked'. You're not thinking this through before stopping at conclusions.
Cynabuns ago
I think for this OP to call you guys paid spammers is crap and you'll notice that I didn't even address this in my comment. It was dumb tactic that did not even warrant my attention.
That said, v/Videos is a DEFAULT sub and the only thing you should be banning are spammers who do not heed your warnings, period. Like it or not, the report spam function serves a purpose and I get a ton of these very same reports, but I'm not about to ban a user for abusing the button. Believe me, I appreciate your frustration, but just Ignore his reports and Move on.
Now please reverse this ban on u/AOU
Cynabuns ago
I think the more important issue here is the BAN that's been placed on AOU, https://voat.co/v/videos/modlog/banned
@InnocentBystander @THC @Violentlight :: As mods of a Default Subverse, I don't think you have any business banning a user for reporting what they perceive to be as spam. No one says you have to do anything about it, but this is NOT COOL. Please reverse this ban at once as it is utter bullshit.
@PuttitOut @Atko
Violentlight ago
Hey there. It seems I've shown up late to this 'party'. So for a while now AOU has been reporting Evrocot posts as spam. Among others of course. But Evrocot is the most recognizable, so I'll be using his name as the example. I personally, and I believe @THC and @InnocentBystander have explained to him as well, that Evrocot was discussed specifically with the community. We also tried to explain and make the subs definition of spam clear. We made multiple attempts to explain that he was not actually reporting spam. We consider it an abuse of the report spam button. The reason we try to explain it so many times, is because we do certainly appreciate the communities help in tracking down the spam. Makes our jobs easier, and holy hell, I love that.
The problem is that we have a lot of people who use the report spam button to try and silence someone because they disagree. That is one of the reasons I became a mod. I figured that I bitch so much about what happened at reddit, I might as well do something to help protect Voat from the same fate. So when we run into people who are using the report spam button to try and silence someone because their fee fees got hurt, we explain what the button is for. We tell them not to abuse the button, because we are not stepping in to silence anyone. We protect the users from action thats prevalent in reddit right now. You simply call on the mods to smite your foes. You call on this team of mods to shut down a discussion, and your the one in trouble. We work very hard to work as the community has told us to. We don't consult with the admins, we consult with the community. So there is a site-wide definition of spam that the v/videos community doesn't fully agree with. Because it would actually be harmful to our Original Content providers. Some of who have put front page content on Voat, exclusive to Voat. Thats pretty cool. So we modified the sub definition of spam based on the feedback from the community.
Our modding is to protect the community from having a screaming minority make changes to the rules that the majority has decided upon. In this case, we have 1 user asking us to take action against accounts that we have already discussed with the community. The consensus is to let the Voats decide with these videos. We specifically asked how they wanted us to proceed with Evrocot. We were told specifically to let the voats decide. Since that is what the community has asked for, we defend it. We defend it from anyone who tries to compromise that.
So we explained to AOU many times where we were coming from. We asked many times for him to not abuse the report spam button. But he made it clear that he was going to continue to abuse it. He also made it clear that he was going to ramp it up. It was his idea of a protest to us not taking action against the videos. We let him know that continued abuse would lead to a ban. He continued. He continued so he had something tangible to take to Protect Voat. But we had told him that if he really thought that it should change, that he can discuss it with the community. He never said anything in our last sticky.
As THC and InnocentBystander have already mentioned. We create a sticky in v/videos that links to our v/videosmodtalk for discussion. It stays at the top where every visitor to v/videos can see it. It invites everyone to please let us know if there is any issues. Because we want to know. We want to make sure we are still working with the community. We want to make sure we are being the mods they expect us to be. In the interm, we have places in v/videosmodtalk for anyone to start a discussion. From there, we can create an early sticky to deal with any situation that appears to be an issue.
But I just can't apologize for trying to protect Voat from reddits fate. Allowing a very loud single person demand that we break community created guidelines and rules because he doesnt agree with them, is exactly how reddit functions.
Violentlight ago
@Disappointed
Disappointed ago
I still think 1 month as an initial ban is way too much. You could even ask the users now what they think or link back to this comment. Sorry, I wont be able to reply again for a few hours(if this even gets through) the site has swallowed my comment 5 times already.
Violentlight ago
Oh crap, forgot to say. The 1 month ban is the time period we always use for temp bans. So that was nothing personal. We remain consistent in that so we are not putting any bias into it. 1 month ban has always been the first ban length.
Disappointed ago
Well I was unaware that the 1 month ban is normal practice but I still believe that is heavy-handed for a genuine user of the site.
Violentlight ago
AOU has made it clear that he is using Spam Report as some kind of protest. We had a sticky 2 months ago. As we mentioned before. This issue was specifically discussed with the community. This is simply one user who does not like that these users keep getting to post in the sub. Nothing we can do about that. We have tried to talk this through with him many times. Even now, his argument to Protect Voat is more posts he wants us to remove. He is barely even arguing about his ban. He is trying to convince Protect Voat that he is right and that we are not doing our jobs. We cannot, and will not be removing the posts he has deemed unworthy of v/videos. These are posts that fit in the guidelines. So this single user does not get say over v/videos. AOU does not get to override what the community wants.
AOU has had a problem with what we consider spam for a while. But he still made no effort to bring it up in our last sticky.
After our many attempts to explain this all to him, we told him that further abuse of the spam report button would lead to a temp ban. He continued because he wanted something tangible to bring to Protect Voat. I love you guys, but in this case, hes trying to use you. Hes not even trying to use you to remove his ban. He wants us to change how we mod v/videos because he feels hes right. We can't change the definition without the community. Hes the only one telling us that the current definition is wrong. We have invited him to bring it up in the next community discussion so we can be sure that the communities feelings on the issue have not changed.
We have not been unreasonable. In order to keep our spam report button useful, we are holding a user accountable. He is simply using the spam report button as protest now. Hes not using it to help. He has made that clear. He is not protesting his ban. Hes protesting community guidelines.
So this is why the 1 month ban is fine. It gives him time to try and convince Protect Voat that v/video rules and guidelines are wrong. It gives Protect Voat the time to look into this and realize that we are working with and for the community. It gives you time to find out that this is one user having a tantrum because we refuse to work for a single user.
When his 1 month ban is over, we can create another sticky. He will have time to calm down. He will have the time to create his case with examples. As he has done in this post 6 hours ago. But so far, everything he has provided was specifically discussed in previous stickies. We are not trying to avoid discussion on this topic. We are simply trying to avoid a single user manipulating the situation to try and get his way regardless of what the community wants.
@Cynabuns @THC @InnocentBystander
Disappointed ago
OK thanks see my reply to Innocentbystander whwre I pinged you.
AOU ago
lol
InnocentBystander ago
He received many warnings, the ban is only temporary, and we reverse bans when the person agrees to stop abusing the sub.
But he was spamming us with reports that did not fit the criteria. Ironically, he's spamming.
Cynabuns ago
He is a monkey on crack hitting the report button but he is not ad spam for removal, and he may be an idiot for doing so, but ad spam is the only crap that should be addressed by mods in the default subverses.
InnocentBystander ago
Ad-spam is not the only spam we deal with.
The definition we use is posted in the sidebar as follows:
Spam comes in more forms than ad.
Manhood, Spamalak, Insane cultists, and others are no better than ads
Nobody has ever said it was too much in any of the feedback posts, or other. There have been requests to expand it, but nothing usable yet.
Cynabuns ago
It's hard to disagree that these are annoying as all get out, but I'm not sure that Atko would agree with this guideline on your sidebar especially in light of his recent visit to v/News
InnocentBystander ago
Honestly, I don't care.
I have a great deal of respect for the guy. But..
We run it how the community wishes. End of debate, as far as I am concerned.
We are always listening. And as I've said to AOU, make a post and start a dialogue with the community if he wants change.
No one person will decide, not AOU, not even if it was Atko.
But I think that Atko is happy if the community is anyway.
heygeorge ago
Godddddaaaaammmm Voat swallowing comments arrrreggggggggghhhhh
I just looked at the Hot and New pages, and it didn't seem super spam filled, but maybe I'm not sure which posters you're referring to.
Anyway, this topic has come up before, specifically with Evrocot, and if I'm not mistaken the general consensus was to leave him be and just downvote if ya don't like it, or upload higher quality vids, because the amount of content submitted is rather low.
heygeorge ago
Linky: v/videos