I know this will be a controversial topic, but as you all know, we’ve been programmed since we were born to believe what we were taught in school. The media and entertainment industry continue to program us.
Us red pilled Patriots do not just believe what we’re told. We’re no longer blind sheep. We do our own research and spread the word. So why not do the same when it comes to the Holocaust?
For over 2 years now, many people on Voat have said that the Holocaust was a lie. I’ve been researching the subject and found an awesome website about it on https://8ch.net/qresearch. I was up late reading this last night, and I am convinced now that we were absolutely lied to. I’m not saying people didn’t die, but the whole story is very different than we’ve been taught to believe.
There are tons of pictures included. It’s a very interesting read no matter what your belief is regarding the Holocaust. So for those of you that are curious, here’s the link...
https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/
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Dragon40 ago
Utter bullshit.
Crensch ago
It looks to me like they have their affairs in order as far as supporting their position. What do you have to support yours?
Dragon40 ago
Millions of pages of history and decades of experience dealing with the racist morons pimping Holocaust denial. If you believe "they have their affairs in order," I have this nifty orange bridge for sale.
Crensch ago
So you have nothing but more claims? If there's all that evidence, it should be easy to pull some out to present to us, shouldn't it?
Dragon40 ago
I have the historical record. It speaks loudly. https://www.ushmm.org/, http://nizkor.org/, https://www.holocausteducation.org.uk/, the transcripts of the Nurnberg Tribunals (http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/trials, http://nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca/,http://nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/ ), the transcripts from the trial of Adolf Eichmann (http://nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eichmann-adolf/)...in short, several hundred thousand pages of proven facts. That seems like a good place to begin...
Crensch ago
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.2_Charter%20of%20IMT%201945.pdf
What does Article 19 say?
What does Article 21 say?
How would you like to be tried in such a "court"?
https://www.ushmm.org/
"KEY FACTS"
So what they're saying is two out of every three European Jews lived in Germany? Are you fucking serious?
Notice how they beg the question on "The Final Solution" inside of "fact" 1? When you number facts, do you couch other assertions in with them as if they're facts, too?
Dishonest people do that.
Oh, you mean those that are likely to be enemies and not part of the society in which they have invaded? How is this wrong?
ISRAEL DOES THIS. RIGHT NOW. THEY ADMIT IT.
Please tell me I don't actually have to analyze this one for you.
http://nizkor.org/
LITERALLY DISPROVES THE CLAIM IN YOUR PREVIOUS LINK:
http://nizkor.org/qar-complete.cgi Scroll down for a list of population by country. It looks exactly like this, sans my additions.
Why were the OFFICIAL numbers at Auschwitz dropped nearly 3 million? Why do these website you've linked now claim 12 million despite the camp that was 4 out of the 6 original million claimed no longer being claimed as having killed nearly 3 million?
Your sources are bad, and you should feel bad.
I can tell you just snagged any pro-holocaust links you could to throw at me. You did no research yourself. You know nothing of this subject.
Did you notice that your links all push "holocaust education"? Why are they pushing this narrative on our children? Is it because children in school have not yet reached the age of reason, where they would have the chance to mature to a point that they could reject absurdities like the ones above?
Did you ever grow out of that phase?
@blacksmith21
Dragon40 ago
Why were the OFFICIAL numbers at Auschwitz dropped nearly 3 million? False claim (I'm guessing you're trying to pass Foner off as a reliable source).
Foner's assertions are simply not true; although it is correct to note that the Polish Communist government did claim that four million people were exterminated at Auschwitz, historians (Feig, Reitlinger, Hilberg, et al.) have never supported that figure. Consider the estimates provided by Buszko at the end of his article on Auschwitz, which appeared in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust:
Of the 405,000 registered prisoners, 65,000 survived Of the 16,000 Soviet POW's, 96 survived Various estimates suggest 1.6 million were murdered
Speaking of Smoke & Mirrors, you followed up those Auschwitz whoppers with Why do these websites you've linked now claim 12 million despite the camp, that was 4 out of the 6 original million claimed overall, no longer being claimed as having killed nearly 3 million of the original 4? Smoke and mirrors. The 12 million figure is an estimate of the victims of Hitler's murderous campaign, not solely the number of Jewish victims or the number of victims of a specific camp. Millions of Polish Gentiles were also murdered by the NAZIs, and they were hardly Hitler's only Gentile victims. Smoke and mirrors.
Crensch ago
Foner? I'm telling you that's what was taught in schools. That's what the narrative stated for years.
Wait, so some JEWISH historians disagreed the whole time? Fancy that! Any documentation that they disagreed when 4 million was the number for the narrative?
Got a link to that? I'd LOVE to see if his words matched the narrative at the time.
Oh, we're back up to 1.6 million? How'd that happen? Why were there only 405,000 registered prisoners? Weren't the Germans meticulous record-keepers? Wasn't that also drilled into children in schools? Ruthless, efficient, and needed records of EVERYTHING and that's why they have "mountains" of evidence?
So you're arguing that they weren't?
Notice how you have to repeat yourself here? It's a Jewish persuasion tactic where you repeat yourself over and over again until people finally believe it. You can see for yourself that it works by finding people that believe CNN.
Nobody gives a fuck about what happened outside of those camps when they're talking about the Holohoax, moron. What he did OUTSIDE of those camps is not the issue. War happens. People die. The part that is FALSE, and hammered into our heads, is the death camps.
Nobody. Nobody is disputing that other people died. The claims of homicidal death camps is the only thing relevant.
That's like making a memorial for the whites in South Africa dying to the current genocide, and adding all the whites being killed by feral savages in the other countries of Africa.
Notice how you didn't bring up the Nuremburg trials in your response? Didn't like what you saw in that charter?
Dragon40 ago
So much bullshit, so little time. Nobody gives a fuck about what happened outside of those camps when they're talking about the Holohoax, moron. So you contend that those murdered by the Einsatzgruppen don't count? That Nobody gives a fuck? How did you (clearly a Holocaust scholar of the first order) determine that? Did you survey the people of the world? Did you ask billions of people whether or not they "give a fuck"?
Crensch ago
The whole fucking narrative of the holocaust is camp-centric. They even had the numbers of the camps themselves match the 6 million before Auschwitz had to lower theirs because the claim was laughable.
Because nobody was ever taught about the Einsatzgruppen in school. Nobody ever mentions it unless they're on the internet desperately searching through "holocaust denial debunking" sites.
How many times do you think I've had this argument with people? Do you have any idea how many of them brought up anything outside of the camps? No, that's an apologist tactic for when the numbers don't add up. "But muh war casualties outside." Because there were SUCH good records of that?
You just finished saying they kept good records. Where are these records?
You know what? Someone did that for me.
Nobody. Cares.
Because pushing THAT makes the rest of the holocaust claim even that much more absurd, and the Jews know it.
think- ago
Well, from my perspective, 'holocaust' is the name for the genocide which comprises all jews who were killed, inside and outside the camps.
I don't think any scholar nowadays claims that 'holocaust' means only those that were killed in camps.
Or do they?
This would be nonsensical imo, since I think the Nazis took many prisoners out of the camps, and made them walk long distances when the allied troops arrived at the end of the war, and many prisoners were killed IIRC.
Also, sometimes prisoners had to go to sites in cities that were bombed, and had to defuse bombs, some were killed. They died outside of the camps, but of course they died because they were prisoners in the first place.
You might not have been taught about einsatzgruppen killings at school, but from what I remember, this has been recent research of the last 20 years or so.
Some of it maybe has only been possible after the collapse of the Soviet Union, when archives were accessible for the first time.
So not sure why we should neglect these killings, only because it is recent research.
I don't think we should discuss what you were taught at school, but what current research claims, @Crensch.
Otherwise it will boil down to a discussion about what the people here were taught at school - which is quite interesting of course, but doesn't help deciding how many people were killed, and in which way.
@srayzie @Vindicator @Blacksmith21 @Dragon40
Crensch ago
They certainly used to.
Do you accept that Auschwitz was claimed to, at one point be the site of 4 million of the supposed deaths?
If so, please check the table below the selection here and add up the numbers only down to Sobibor.
I believe it's relevant that children were taught these lies before the age of reason. Factoids that stick around long after the fact.
Auschwitz: A Doctor's Eyewitness Account, where the 4 million of Auschwitz was originally published, and The Chicago Tribune article about the four million memorial of Auschwitz changing long after the fact are not really enough, in my opinion, to show people that the original 6 million was added up from the camps, and Auschwitz was 2/3 of that number. Children were taught this, because it was canon enough to be on a memorial at Auschwitz itself.
Meaning the narrative, the claims, of the time, disseminated to children were basically in agreement.
I've got plenty of that, too.
think- ago
That's interesting.
I looked it up on Wikipedia, so yes. ;-) grin
Also, I believe you when you say that's that what you've been taught at school.
As I pointed out in my previous comment, I think these are two different discussions, which are necessarily connected.
I think both are interesting: How did the research / discussion develop over time, and what does current resarch say?
@srayzie @Vindicator @Blacksmith21 @PacaGoat
PacaGoat ago
I am not impressed with hour rewritten data points in a neffort to smear. The veey fact you pursue this day in and day out smacks of true racism and perversion of thought.
Maybe you could try knitting for a hobby because this ine aint working for you.
srayzie ago
That was sexist
PacaGoat ago
I did. My mother taught me. And how to crochet. To sew and repair my clothes how to cook, clean house. Its not a sexist thing. Its a hobby and creative. And it is calming at least it was to me. Since I damaged my eyes workjng offshore, its a bit difficult anymore.
srayzie ago
Well guess what? I didn’t have a mom to teach me anything. She chose drugs over me and I was raised by my dad. You made me feel just wonderful. Thanks for telling me how a woman SHOULD be.
PacaGoat ago
Im so sorry. Had a problem with my dad. He beat my mom and made our life HELL. My mother was amazing and I wish you had had that. I also had a great grandmother. I took my mom away from dad when I turned 18 and got her away from all that. When he came around I put him on the road. Crazy crazy times.
Today my mom is gone. Cancer and I helped take care of dad. I had to forgive him.
srayzie ago
My mom was in and out of prison and both are gone
PacaGoat ago
So sorry to hear that. When I became an adult, I determined to not be the man my dad was. The only male role model I had was his younger brother who was killed in an accident when I was 14. I had to figure that part on my own somewhat. My mother could only go so far.
I remember at 16 one of dads girlfriends husband walked into our store and pulled a 357 on dad. I jumped in front of dad. Even though he was not a good dad. He was all I had.
We have survived Srayze. Now Im just an old broken down coot. Lol well not to broken down. You will do just fine. And I did appoligize to think. Like I said, i have some vision issues now. Why its taking me so dadgum long to type this.
srayzie ago
Ok thank you. That hit me wrong.
PacaGoat ago
Well. I am just getting up andbbarely had coffee also.😫 We have a big day today here. Have a lot to do. But good things for us.
srayzie ago
Where are you from?
PacaGoat ago
Mis'sippi