WERE WE LIED TO ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST? (GreatAwakening)

submitted ago by srayzie

I know this will be a controversial topic, but as you all know, we’ve been programmed since we were born to believe what we were taught in school. The media and entertainment industry continue to program us.

Us red pilled Patriots do not just believe what we’re told. We’re no longer blind sheep. We do our own research and spread the word. So why not do the same when it comes to the Holocaust?

For over 2 years now, many people on Voat have said that the Holocaust was a lie. I’ve been researching the subject and found an awesome website about it on https://8ch.net/qresearch. I was up late reading this last night, and I am convinced now that we were absolutely lied to. I’m not saying people didn’t die, but the whole story is very different than we’ve been taught to believe.

There are tons of pictures included. It’s a very interesting read no matter what your belief is regarding the Holocaust. So for those of you that are curious, here’s the link...

https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/

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Dragon40 ago

Utter bullshit.

Crensch ago

It looks to me like they have their affairs in order as far as supporting their position. What do you have to support yours?

Dragon40 ago

Millions of pages of history and decades of experience dealing with the racist morons pimping Holocaust denial. If you believe "they have their affairs in order," I have this nifty orange bridge for sale.

Crensch ago

So you have nothing but more claims? If there's all that evidence, it should be easy to pull some out to present to us, shouldn't it?

Dragon40 ago

I have the historical record. It speaks loudly. https://www.ushmm.org/, http://nizkor.org/, https://www.holocausteducation.org.uk/, the transcripts of the Nurnberg Tribunals (http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/trials, http://nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca/,http://nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/ ), the transcripts from the trial of Adolf Eichmann (http://nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eichmann-adolf/)...in short, several hundred thousand pages of proven facts. That seems like a good place to begin...

Crensch ago

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.2_Charter%20of%20IMT%201945.pdf

What does Article 19 say?

What does Article 21 say?

How would you like to be tried in such a "court"?

https://www.ushmm.org/

"KEY FACTS"

By 1945, the Germans and their collaborators killed nearly two out of every three European Jews as part of the "Final Solution." The "Final Solution" was the Nazi policy to murder the Jews of Europe.

So what they're saying is two out of every three European Jews lived in Germany? Are you fucking serious?

Notice how they beg the question on "The Final Solution" inside of "fact" 1? When you number facts, do you couch other assertions in with them as if they're facts, too?

Dishonest people do that.

During the era of the Holocaust, German authorities also targeted other groups because of their perceived racial and biological inferiority. These included Roma (Gypsies), people with disabilities, and others such as Poles, Soviet civilians, and blacks.

Oh, you mean those that are likely to be enemies and not part of the society in which they have invaded? How is this wrong?

ISRAEL DOES THIS. RIGHT NOW. THEY ADMIT IT.

German authorities persecuted other groups on political, ideological, and behavioral grounds. Among them were Communists, Socialists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and homosexuals.

Please tell me I don't actually have to analyze this one for you.

http://nizkor.org/

LITERALLY DISPROVES THE CLAIM IN YOUR PREVIOUS LINK:

http://nizkor.org/qar-complete.cgi Scroll down for a list of population by country. It looks exactly like this, sans my additions.

Why were the OFFICIAL numbers at Auschwitz dropped nearly 3 million? Why do these website you've linked now claim 12 million despite the camp that was 4 out of the 6 original million claimed no longer being claimed as having killed nearly 3 million?

Your sources are bad, and you should feel bad.

I can tell you just snagged any pro-holocaust links you could to throw at me. You did no research yourself. You know nothing of this subject.

Did you notice that your links all push "holocaust education"? Why are they pushing this narrative on our children? Is it because children in school have not yet reached the age of reason, where they would have the chance to mature to a point that they could reject absurdities like the ones above?

Did you ever grow out of that phase?

@blacksmith21

Dragon40 ago

Why were the OFFICIAL numbers at Auschwitz dropped nearly 3 million? False claim (I'm guessing you're trying to pass Foner off as a reliable source).

Foner's assertions are simply not true; although it is correct to note that the Polish Communist government did claim that four million people were exterminated at Auschwitz, historians (Feig, Reitlinger, Hilberg, et al.) have never supported that figure. Consider the estimates provided by Buszko at the end of his article on Auschwitz, which appeared in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust:

Of the 405,000 registered prisoners, 65,000 survived Of the 16,000 Soviet POW's, 96 survived Various estimates suggest 1.6 million were murdered

Speaking of Smoke & Mirrors, you followed up those Auschwitz whoppers with Why do these websites you've linked now claim 12 million despite the camp, that was 4 out of the 6 original million claimed overall, no longer being claimed as having killed nearly 3 million of the original 4? Smoke and mirrors. The 12 million figure is an estimate of the victims of Hitler's murderous campaign, not solely the number of Jewish victims or the number of victims of a specific camp. Millions of Polish Gentiles were also murdered by the NAZIs, and they were hardly Hitler's only Gentile victims. Smoke and mirrors.

Crensch ago

Why were the OFFICIAL numbers at Auschwitz dropped nearly 3 million? False claim (I'm guessing you're trying to pass Foner off as a reliable source).

Foner? I'm telling you that's what was taught in schools. That's what the narrative stated for years.

Foner's assertions are simply not true; although it is correct to note that the Polish Communist government did claim that four million people were exterminated at Auschwitz, historians (Feig, Reitlinger, Hilberg, et al.) have never supported that figure.

Wait, so some JEWISH historians disagreed the whole time? Fancy that! Any documentation that they disagreed when 4 million was the number for the narrative?

Consider the estimates provided by Buszko at the end of his article on Auschwitz, which appeared in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust:

Got a link to that? I'd LOVE to see if his words matched the narrative at the time.

Of the 405,000 registered prisoners, 65,000 survived Of the 16,000 Soviet POW's, 96 survived Various estimates suggest 1.6 million were murdered

Oh, we're back up to 1.6 million? How'd that happen? Why were there only 405,000 registered prisoners? Weren't the Germans meticulous record-keepers? Wasn't that also drilled into children in schools? Ruthless, efficient, and needed records of EVERYTHING and that's why they have "mountains" of evidence?

So you're arguing that they weren't?

Speaking of Smoke & Mirrors, you followed up those Auschwitz whoppers with Why do these websites you've linked now claim 12 million despite the camp, that was 4 out of the 6 original million claimed overall, no longer being claimed as having killed nearly 3 million of the original 4? Smoke and mirrors.

Notice how you have to repeat yourself here? It's a Jewish persuasion tactic where you repeat yourself over and over again until people finally believe it. You can see for yourself that it works by finding people that believe CNN.

The 12 million figure is an estimate of the victims of Hitler's murderous campaign, not solely the number of Jewish victims or the number of victims of a specific camp. Millions of Polish Gentiles were also murdered by the NAZIs, and they were hardly Hitler's only Gentile victims. Smoke and mirrors.

Nobody gives a fuck about what happened outside of those camps when they're talking about the Holohoax, moron. What he did OUTSIDE of those camps is not the issue. War happens. People die. The part that is FALSE, and hammered into our heads, is the death camps.

Nobody. Nobody is disputing that other people died. The claims of homicidal death camps is the only thing relevant.

That's like making a memorial for the whites in South Africa dying to the current genocide, and adding all the whites being killed by feral savages in the other countries of Africa.

Notice how you didn't bring up the Nuremburg trials in your response? Didn't like what you saw in that charter?

Dragon40 ago

So much bullshit, so little time. Nobody gives a fuck about what happened outside of those camps when they're talking about the Holohoax, moron. So you contend that those murdered by the Einsatzgruppen don't count? That Nobody gives a fuck? How did you (clearly a Holocaust scholar of the first order) determine that? Did you survey the people of the world? Did you ask billions of people whether or not they "give a fuck"?

Crensch ago

So you contend that those murdered by the Einsatzgruppen don't count?

The whole fucking narrative of the holocaust is camp-centric. They even had the numbers of the camps themselves match the 6 million before Auschwitz had to lower theirs because the claim was laughable.

That Nobody gives a fuck?

Because nobody was ever taught about the Einsatzgruppen in school. Nobody ever mentions it unless they're on the internet desperately searching through "holocaust denial debunking" sites.

How did you (clearly a Holocaust scholar of the first order) determine that?

How many times do you think I've had this argument with people? Do you have any idea how many of them brought up anything outside of the camps? No, that's an apologist tactic for when the numbers don't add up. "But muh war casualties outside." Because there were SUCH good records of that?

You just finished saying they kept good records. Where are these records?

Did you survey the people of the world? Did you ask billions of people whether or not they "give a fuck"?

You know what? Someone did that for me.

Nobody. Cares.

Because pushing THAT makes the rest of the holocaust claim even that much more absurd, and the Jews know it.

think- ago

The whole fucking narrative of the holocaust is camp-centric.

Well, from my perspective, 'holocaust' is the name for the genocide which comprises all jews who were killed, inside and outside the camps.

I don't think any scholar nowadays claims that 'holocaust' means only those that were killed in camps.

Or do they?

This would be nonsensical imo, since I think the Nazis took many prisoners out of the camps, and made them walk long distances when the allied troops arrived at the end of the war, and many prisoners were killed IIRC.

Also, sometimes prisoners had to go to sites in cities that were bombed, and had to defuse bombs, some were killed. They died outside of the camps, but of course they died because they were prisoners in the first place.

You might not have been taught about einsatzgruppen killings at school, but from what I remember, this has been recent research of the last 20 years or so.

Some of it maybe has only been possible after the collapse of the Soviet Union, when archives were accessible for the first time.

So not sure why we should neglect these killings, only because it is recent research.

I don't think we should discuss what you were taught at school, but what current research claims, @Crensch.

Otherwise it will boil down to a discussion about what the people here were taught at school - which is quite interesting of course, but doesn't help deciding how many people were killed, and in which way.

@srayzie @Vindicator @Blacksmith21 @Dragon40

think- ago

@PacaGoat @LauraIngalls: please see parent.

PacaGoat ago

Personally, growing up in the 60's we were not that I ever remember taught that the numbers of dead were atributed solely to the camps. It was the figure of the dead from not just Germany but the conqured states as well, which was several states. I also remember the ships loaded with refuges being turned away from our own shores and sent back to occupied territories. The current narrative being pushed is from the same source which infected 8 chan. Championed by one Doug Stewart and one or two pals from over on Reddit. He was changing his IP addy, there are youtube vids on how to do that. And having conversations with himself to appear he was many people.

This entire effort and argument is designed to make us look racist. And to hurt our movement.

It was last week??? I began to see this happening on full chan and then saw the "you" were he outted himself. He and his happy band has moved here to distract and cause trouble. And THAT is why I have been very forward.

You can learn a lot just by triggering some people. Their weakness of mind shows up. Like a flare.

Also, the Jews did not come up with those numbers. Investigators from the allied forces did. I have also found that a plethera of online sources from back in the day are missing. I will continue to do my own digging. To help clear the waters. I very much appreciate your pinging me. My wife and I are totally swamped today and tomorrow but I will be back on this soon. Thanks Srayze.

think- ago

...not that I ever remember taught that the numbers of dead were atributed solely to the camps. It was the figure of the dead from not just Germany but the conqured states as well, which was several states.

Yes, that's what I learned at school, too.

Also, I didn't learn about 4 millions killed at Auschwitz alone (I don't even recall being taught an exact number of deaths at Auschwitz); actually, when @Crensch mentioned that that's what he learned, it was the first time I heard the number 4 millions.

But I believe him; and obviously they had indeed a memorial at Auschwitz which initially said '4 millions' (I looked it up on Wikipedia :-P ;-) ). So I think that's quite interesting that they changed the number.

I also think it's interesting that there were newspaper reports about 6 million deaths in a possible holocaust even before WWII. They don't seem to be forgeries.

I'm not opposed to discussing these things, i.e. who came up with which numbers, and how research changed over time. As I said the other day, from what I gather, current academic research comes up with different numbers anyway, and everybody seems to say they are only 'estimates'.

I just felt that these might be two different discussions: One would be what current research says, and the other would be how research and discussion developed over time. (Although these discussions are connected of course, necessarily.)

I am going to read @Crensch's links and info in the next couple of days; I'm new to this discussion. I'm only on Voat, and not familiar with what's going on at the chans at all, I only go there occasionally when somebody links Pizzagate research.

Also, when you'll find something interesting you feel I should read, please ping me.

Doug Stewart and one or two pals from over on Reddit

I don't know who this is, and I've also never been to Reddit, sorry.

This entire effort and argument is designed to make us look racist. And to hurt our movement.

I'm sure there are Nazi shills here on Voat. But @Crensch certainly isn't one of them, and there are many other Voaters who I think are genuinely into Nazi stuff, too. He really believes what he says; and you should be aware that you will probably not be able to change his mind.

Although I have found him always open, and willing to listen to people when they make valid points or suggest to read new sources.

Also, the Jews did not come up with those numbers. Investigators from the allied forces did.

Would you maybe have a link, if you should have the time? Thank you.

@srayzie @Vindicator @Blacksmith21 @LauraIngalls

PacaGoat ago

What I think is they discoved a mistake and corrected it. But lets look at what we have here.

We have had a influx of Jew haters foisting rewritten historys. If my lap top was up I would absolutely dive into the html on those pages and discover their origins. On youtube there has suddenly popped up a socalled preacher who is parroting the same exact narratives. Another thing is, why now? Why the sudden interest? Israels been around for 70+ years. Now there has been attacks on these people since the 1930's. A lot of what is offered is from Yassar Arafats orginizations. By the way he never lived in Palestine. He came out of Egypt and was associated with Several. Terroriist orgs including the muslim brotherhood. Once Jimmy Carter elevated him to the world stage or about that time he moved to Paris. Now who else was in Paris? Khomanie. I cant speil. The guy who over threw the Shaw of Iran and had our embassy personnel captured. The arguments offered are preplanned. This is a psyop people.

Everything here is connected. This guy I mentioned is the same guy who first was pushing the jew hate hard on full chan. I noticed the very same identical links, pics, everything that was used there happening and being used here. I also took note of the user name(s) they were all goobeldigook. And similar in construction. The guy was using several sock puppets accounts to push out and attack. He also had conversations with (between) his several accounts. He posted something then upvoated himself and replied to his own comments. Using several IP accounts. This is the beginning of all this discussion. I fell into the focus as it were because I fought this false and negative push which was designed to do a few things.

  1. Change our focus

  2. Take advantage of Q's absence and sew doubt and hate

  3. Divide the community.

Arguing against their datapoints falls into the trap. I suggest every patriot move on. They cant win if we dont play their game. People need to try and see through the veil.

Thx for commenting. MAGA

Crensch ago

Also, the Jews did not come up with those numbers. Investigators from the allied forces did.

My Nuremberg comment, I believe, addresses this. The US allied forces put Jewish officers and world jewish orgs in chaarge of everyithing. The non-jews under orders to cooperate from their leaders that were convinced to go along with them.

think- ago

Sorry, didn't have time to read your Nuremberg comment yet.

Crensch ago

Not a problem at all. It's a lot to digest. Take your time.

think- ago

Thank you.

Lauraingalls ago

Thank you for the thoughtful reply, but I have been ripped to SHREDS over this. This place is like entering the GATES OF HELL. I have been accused of all kinds of things non of which are true and every kind of sick and sexual thing has been said to me. These PEOPLE ARE SICK!!!

think- ago

Laura, this is Voat. People speak their mind.

You will get tougher over time, or you might want to decide that this is not your favourite place to hang out. Please don't expect people here to change.

People here come from different backgrounds, they have different opinions, and they are often rude; but this is also a great place because you can actually say what you want without getting censored.

Also, if I may add this, you have said that users here are nuts, so you were also able to speak your mind.