Seriously!
I figure at least 6-8000 members have joined Voat. Great!
But really is it Great?
No it’s not. All I see is a bunch of reddetors keeping their accounts on redsux and no count being added to other voat subs. I highly suspect the Q folks stick to their own sub and provide no benefit to Voat besides forum sliding.
Can somebody make a point that they are adding any value to voat besides members and some news coverage?
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AngelaC224 ago
So the goal of Voat is to make all of Voat the same with 100% cross pollination of users? That seems lame. "Adding value" = commenting in ways and places that you like? This seems like reverse political correctness. You have to do X, Y and Z in order to fit in here. Otherwise you're told to fuck off ___________. Seems like one part school yard, one part dogs pissing on their territory here. I am surprised that Q sent people here - a place where people think the best way to presevere free speech is to use the same culturally charged five words. Is this place run fifteen year olds? Hurt feelings if people want to hang in one space of those with like minds?
Triceratography ago
You don't have to say one mean word to fit in, but nobody will stop you if you want to.
AngelaC224 ago
If you're willing to reply to my comment, you could at least add an upvote so I can start posting!
Triceratography ago
See, this is part of why we don't like you. Stop demanding welfare and go back to mexico.
I was disagreeing with you. Don't assume that just because I'm not calling you a nigger that I'm not 100% on the side of the people who are.
AngelaC224 ago
So you only upvote those you agree with? Wouldn't that, at its extreme, end up with a bubble and no discourse?
Triceratography ago
You're explicitly trying to game the system, breaking one of the few rules we have here.
By participating in upvote farming, you enable shills like Shareblue to remove their posting restrictions.
I upvote things from leftists and nazis and even Q cultists, if they are honestly adding to the conversation or just funny, it has little to do with agreement.
Look at the explanation I gave in reply to this post, and look how I was upvoted and he was downvoted. I think he has an upvote or two from me in there somewhere for trying. https://voat.co/v/whatever/2731029/13927271
FrozenFire74 ago
You think I was trying to vote farm with that?
Triceratography ago
Not at all, I'm pointing out that you weren't downvoted because all of us disagree with you, and and I didn't get upvoted because white nationalists agree with my political views. My first response there was listing things you and they likely agree on.
@Crensch put it better than anything I said when he called you dishonest
It's likely you didn't think you were being dishonest just as I didn't think talking about pants around ankles was dishonest- I was trying to convey "not all X do A, and some Y do A" and point out that it wasn't addressing the root issue.
You probably didn't realize that you didn't fully understand their positions either.
FrozenFire74 ago
That was literally the entire point I was making. The conclusion of that point was not to make sweeping assumptions about people based on Race, Religion, or Political Ideologies.
Triceratography ago
Right, so you see why I reduced it that way and I as well as some observers thought I was treating your argument fairly?
Unfortunately, the white nationalists are completely right that the exception doesn't prove the rule, so it requires a better argument than just that to counter them. If you want to, you should honestly hear them out first, so you can be sure that you address their real beliefs and their real proposed solutions.
Race and politics, though in both "not all X do Y", are different. I'm more willing to pick on something like feminism, because that's a label people choose to associate with, and in doing so, give strength to these bad actors. I'd also pick on Democrats and Republicans for similar reasons.
You can support a person without supporting every label they choose, but in my opinion, you can't support a label without supporting at least the majority who fall under it.
FrozenFire74 ago
With the amount of white nationalists on this site, I've seen their argument (some of them very valid that I agree with), and you eventually treated some of my arguments fairly after you were done with the Marxist and Gender accusations. You can't deny, however, that there are many Goats who think that all Blacks and Jews need to die, no liberal has a valid argument, and all feminists are man-hating tards. When Crensch made his post stating that all Voat opinions are merit based, I was specifically calling out the absolutism that occurs here, and that's where the downvoats occurred.
Triceratography ago
Nuance is hard on the internet, but if we're going with "not all X" you should know by now that most of the serious ones seem more interested in segregation than genocide.
My argument against any of these various plans is usually to point at examples of communism. 200 million killed in the last century, but somehow they just haven't managed to get those last few billion that still disagree with them.
Genocide is not practical. You can't kill everyone who disagrees with you, it's simply not possible. Enforced segregation is only slightly more practical given our starting conditions today, and either comes at a huge cost.
FrozenFire74 ago
I'm curious what you mean by this; forcing segregation on all communities, or giving people the choice of segregated communities/integrated communities?
I suspect the serious ones are in the minority on this site, based on what gets upvoats.
Triceratography ago
I could have meant either, I suppose. Unless the whole world is segregated people always have a choice, but to have any place segregated, that place needs a way to keep the "others" out, i.e. some kind of enforcement, not to mention the initial invasion to clear out all undesireables.
What makes our arguments different is I'm directly addressing something the majority believes, on their terms, and they're ok with that. They even have some decent counterpoints, but not enough to convince me it's possible.
I think most of the people talking about killing everyone are simply making tasteless jokes, hyperbole about people they genuinely dislike, and "hey I'm totally a nazi too" by edgy kids, though I'm sure a few believe extermination is an answer.
FrozenFire74 ago
Crensch has specifically said that he wants to see all Jews exterminated, which is where I suspect some of our confusion came from in our initial discussion. So in that regard, I was referring to him with my Comment in the 'Voat is merit based argument' submission he made.
Got an example of this?
I would agree with the emboldened part there, as any rule or law needs someone to enforce it somehow.
Triceratography ago
Well he may sincerely wish for that, but I doubt he thinks it can actually work. Even if it did, we'd see rebellious teenagers donning yarmulkes within a few years.
I haven't use this site with an account in ages, so I do not have any examples of them making the points, but they would have pointed to Orania in the past, or places that started off with a more homogeneous racial makeup than where they actually live.
Standard gated communities and HOAs being crypto-racist was also presented, but since they don't effectively prevent people on foot from wandering in, I don't consider those practical forms of segregation in populated areas. Besides, making your own prison to live in is one of those societal costs I mentioned.
Look at the white people working in Johannesburg, they leave their gated homes in their armored cars and go to a gated car park with armed guards to work in a giant cage. That's no way to live.
FrozenFire74 ago
Would you disagree with the idea that there are some ideas on this site that will get downvoated for simply expressing the wrong opinion then?
I have met the people who would want to live in these communities personally. Anecdotal evidence, sure, but people do want to live in their own cages if it means they have control over how that community is run, typically involving keeping out the wrong color people.
Triceratography ago
There are some ideas that are downvoted, but most of them are poorly thought out. There are a few users who everyone recognizes as leftist, but they rarely get downvote swarmed. People can argue for gun bans or transsexuals or the like and not get downvoted.
Off the top of my head, the only one that I think is a total nonstarter is pedos. Even with that, lots of people are skeptical that enemies of the government magically end up with tons of illegal images after seeing the leaks about tools that plant files on remote machines.
As for explicitly racist gated communities? I think we should let them have at it, because they'll be disappointed. Those communities always end up with petty neighbor fights, racist or no.
FrozenFire74 ago
Even if you presented a valid case for an unpopular opinion on Voat, would you agree that users would still downvoat it, be it on principle or a misunderstanding akin to what happened in our initial discussion?
Triceratography ago
Sometimes that happens, sure.
But in 99% of the cases where a someone goes "I'm being silenced, look at this!" it's that they are spamming or being an asshole about it. I'm sure you've seen people spamming about being silenced.
Once in a while they get told "Hey man, we're downvoting you because you won't shut up. If you'd just say it once, people might respond. If they ignore you then figure out how to be more interesting instead of spamming."
But that's work, it's much easier to blame everyone else.
FrozenFire74 ago
SGIS is probably the most apparent example of that. He brought up some interesting points in the million some-odd posts he put up.
Regardless of that, I think you can tell from my staunch interpretation of terminology that I believe strongly in the whole truth of everything being presented, which is why I want to see all Free Speech treated with the respect it deserves. Because of this, I condemn people downvoating 'wrong-think' out of principle or because 'they're being an asshole about it'. Lord knows Voat has it's share of opinions presented by people being assholes about it.