It seems the only way to prevent this type of abuse is non-participation, but that is definitely not the way any of us want to go. It plays into one of their goals. What is there to do but be vigilant? Even that can end badly as you are cast out as the paranoid freak that calls every one a shill and posts unending rants about conspiracies and hostile take overs.
But what if you decided to take on that paranoid freak persona in order to shield yourself from others doing it to you, and then used that persona to purposely undermine Voat?
Yes, Perhaps it is the next phase. A way to cloak yourself and play off the concern of a group that has a history of being targeted. If your goal was to undermine them you might take on this roll and then keep pushing it to create derision in the group and attack leaders in the community. It is sort of a concern troll mixed with the constant mantra that you are here to help or improve.
Similar to an agent provocateur. It seems like it would be easy to accomplish, take a stance on a supported ideal push it to the extremes. The opposing side will use them as a poster child for why they should be curtailed, it also forms a factional split with in the group as people oppose the extreme for the moderate position and others support the extreme. Use the extreme angle to sow even further chaos among the moderate position until they fracture into nothing or gradually take on the extreme position at least in name.
All said and done, you have marginalized the moderate opposition and radicalized the extreme opposition and bolstered your own position by pointing out the absurdity of the extremes position and by making it look like the moderates where never moderates to begin with.
Throw in a little no true scottsman, and anyone in the moderate group that starts to catch on to you, can be labeled as part of the opposition and also insulate your self from detection. Since you have already labeled anyone that may bring attention to your actions it becomes more difficult for them to be credible in attacking you for your true goals.
You probably don't even have to take an extreme view point to ingrate yourself into the group to dilute their message.
Take a long look at any power user. They have a niche or cliche they stick to. Even the benign power users. Then they slowly gain a following and moderation powers. All so they can steer the conversation. It seems to easy to be legitimate. But if you consider human nature, how we adjust our ideals to fit with the group, how we silence ourselves to limit ridicule and keep group cohesion.
What is scary is that they are completely indistinguishable from a legitimate user. Maybe HPOP is just a weirdo that likes butt plugs and has to much time on his hands, or he could be a honey pot for weirdos to share any illegal sex acts or some one trying to subvert societies sexual norms. Maybe the "day of the rope" guys are really here to weed out any one that plans on trying to commit hate crimes or they really are genocidal racists(true meaning not the sjw one). Maybe Sane is just a normal guy off his meds and no life...
The maybes are innumerable. That scares me, the uncertainty and the manipulation.
I have been pondering these same thoughts. I hesitate fearing my own paranoia has taken over. I watch and I think through the scenarios. But from your list, I believe I have convinced myself that one of them is what we have been talking about. I am reluctant to say this for fear of being wrong and doing the one thing I have been concerned about, which is fracturing the community, but I an not ready to keep turning a blind eye to what I believe.
Sadly we will never know who is a shill or government puppet. If you even get close they will vanish into the ether and the next faggot will step up their operations.
Yes, but the one thing is that this process take months or maybe years to put into place, so if we can identify then the cost for implementation can be too excessive for the actors.
I would say weeks or months, as a good poster can build up credibility pretty fast if they know the audience and have even a little google-fu. But what is stopping them from having multiple accounts each in different stages each ready to take up the banner when one falls? Nothing, infact it is almost par for course in forums to have multiple accounts for normal users. Power users almost can't work with out a few alts to upvote their content to give it that extra push so the front page algorithm picks it up, and then herd mentality kicks in and people see upvotes or downvotes and most then do similar.
The thing is, that the extreme rolls that are part of this process have to have a transition process from normal to extreme. Each specific niche or flavor has to be curated and not duplicated. I can see that this is possible, but it seems there would be diminishing returns as each account is identified and neutralized.
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TheKobold ago
It seems the only way to prevent this type of abuse is non-participation, but that is definitely not the way any of us want to go. It plays into one of their goals. What is there to do but be vigilant? Even that can end badly as you are cast out as the paranoid freak that calls every one a shill and posts unending rants about conspiracies and hostile take overs.
individualin1984 ago
But what if you decided to take on that paranoid freak persona in order to shield yourself from others doing it to you, and then used that persona to purposely undermine Voat?
TheKobold ago
Seems like another page from their book that is missing from the article.
individualin1984 ago
Yes, Perhaps it is the next phase. A way to cloak yourself and play off the concern of a group that has a history of being targeted. If your goal was to undermine them you might take on this roll and then keep pushing it to create derision in the group and attack leaders in the community. It is sort of a concern troll mixed with the constant mantra that you are here to help or improve.
TheKobold ago
Similar to an agent provocateur. It seems like it would be easy to accomplish, take a stance on a supported ideal push it to the extremes. The opposing side will use them as a poster child for why they should be curtailed, it also forms a factional split with in the group as people oppose the extreme for the moderate position and others support the extreme. Use the extreme angle to sow even further chaos among the moderate position until they fracture into nothing or gradually take on the extreme position at least in name.
All said and done, you have marginalized the moderate opposition and radicalized the extreme opposition and bolstered your own position by pointing out the absurdity of the extremes position and by making it look like the moderates where never moderates to begin with.
individualin1984 ago
Throw in a little no true scottsman, and anyone in the moderate group that starts to catch on to you, can be labeled as part of the opposition and also insulate your self from detection. Since you have already labeled anyone that may bring attention to your actions it becomes more difficult for them to be credible in attacking you for your true goals.
TheKobold ago
You probably don't even have to take an extreme view point to ingrate yourself into the group to dilute their message.
Take a long look at any power user. They have a niche or cliche they stick to. Even the benign power users. Then they slowly gain a following and moderation powers. All so they can steer the conversation. It seems to easy to be legitimate. But if you consider human nature, how we adjust our ideals to fit with the group, how we silence ourselves to limit ridicule and keep group cohesion.
What is scary is that they are completely indistinguishable from a legitimate user. Maybe HPOP is just a weirdo that likes butt plugs and has to much time on his hands, or he could be a honey pot for weirdos to share any illegal sex acts or some one trying to subvert societies sexual norms. Maybe the "day of the rope" guys are really here to weed out any one that plans on trying to commit hate crimes or they really are genocidal racists(true meaning not the sjw one). Maybe Sane is just a normal guy off his meds and no life...
The maybes are innumerable. That scares me, the uncertainty and the manipulation.
individualin1984 ago
I have been pondering these same thoughts. I hesitate fearing my own paranoia has taken over. I watch and I think through the scenarios. But from your list, I believe I have convinced myself that one of them is what we have been talking about. I am reluctant to say this for fear of being wrong and doing the one thing I have been concerned about, which is fracturing the community, but I an not ready to keep turning a blind eye to what I believe.
TheKobold ago
Sadly we will never know who is a shill or government puppet. If you even get close they will vanish into the ether and the next faggot will step up their operations.
individualin1984 ago
Yes, but the one thing is that this process take months or maybe years to put into place, so if we can identify then the cost for implementation can be too excessive for the actors.
TheKobold ago
I would say weeks or months, as a good poster can build up credibility pretty fast if they know the audience and have even a little google-fu. But what is stopping them from having multiple accounts each in different stages each ready to take up the banner when one falls? Nothing, infact it is almost par for course in forums to have multiple accounts for normal users. Power users almost can't work with out a few alts to upvote their content to give it that extra push so the front page algorithm picks it up, and then herd mentality kicks in and people see upvotes or downvotes and most then do similar.
individualin1984 ago
The thing is, that the extreme rolls that are part of this process have to have a transition process from normal to extreme. Each specific niche or flavor has to be curated and not duplicated. I can see that this is possible, but it seems there would be diminishing returns as each account is identified and neutralized.
TheKobold ago
Yes. But Identification is the hard part. All we ever have is guesses and coincidence.
individualin1984 ago
Well, Sometimes they reveal themselves.