It seems the only way to prevent this type of abuse is non-participation, but that is definitely not the way any of us want to go. It plays into one of their goals. What is there to do but be vigilant? Even that can end badly as you are cast out as the paranoid freak that calls every one a shill and posts unending rants about conspiracies and hostile take overs.
You coming into a thread about ways government is infiltrating and subverting public forums and thrashing around like a bull in a china shop is literally one of the ways that government disrupts our speech. So either you are an idiot or a goon.
There has to be a discussion for goal posts to have been moved. Hasn't been one with you yet. Would you like to have one or would you like to thrash around this china shop some more?
But what if you decided to take on that paranoid freak persona in order to shield yourself from others doing it to you, and then used that persona to purposely undermine Voat?
Yes, Perhaps it is the next phase. A way to cloak yourself and play off the concern of a group that has a history of being targeted. If your goal was to undermine them you might take on this roll and then keep pushing it to create derision in the group and attack leaders in the community. It is sort of a concern troll mixed with the constant mantra that you are here to help or improve.
Similar to an agent provocateur. It seems like it would be easy to accomplish, take a stance on a supported ideal push it to the extremes. The opposing side will use them as a poster child for why they should be curtailed, it also forms a factional split with in the group as people oppose the extreme for the moderate position and others support the extreme. Use the extreme angle to sow even further chaos among the moderate position until they fracture into nothing or gradually take on the extreme position at least in name.
All said and done, you have marginalized the moderate opposition and radicalized the extreme opposition and bolstered your own position by pointing out the absurdity of the extremes position and by making it look like the moderates where never moderates to begin with.
Throw in a little no true scottsman, and anyone in the moderate group that starts to catch on to you, can be labeled as part of the opposition and also insulate your self from detection. Since you have already labeled anyone that may bring attention to your actions it becomes more difficult for them to be credible in attacking you for your true goals.
You probably don't even have to take an extreme view point to ingrate yourself into the group to dilute their message.
Take a long look at any power user. They have a niche or cliche they stick to. Even the benign power users. Then they slowly gain a following and moderation powers. All so they can steer the conversation. It seems to easy to be legitimate. But if you consider human nature, how we adjust our ideals to fit with the group, how we silence ourselves to limit ridicule and keep group cohesion.
What is scary is that they are completely indistinguishable from a legitimate user. Maybe HPOP is just a weirdo that likes butt plugs and has to much time on his hands, or he could be a honey pot for weirdos to share any illegal sex acts or some one trying to subvert societies sexual norms. Maybe the "day of the rope" guys are really here to weed out any one that plans on trying to commit hate crimes or they really are genocidal racists(true meaning not the sjw one). Maybe Sane is just a normal guy off his meds and no life...
The maybes are innumerable. That scares me, the uncertainty and the manipulation.
we can really only be sure of ourselves, eh, and even not then with all this fucking mind control going on.
what we do know 100% is that CTR came here, sjws run most of voat, and there's a good amount of bots as accounts on voat.
those have all been proven.
maybe sane is just a normal guy off his meds
there's that script.
do you understand how fucking ironic it is you said the above shit then regurgitated known and proven shills' script attempting to character assassinate me?
you could have quantified it better, or put it in context "there's this scirpt that:"
This isn't telling me how to talk?
you have talked about an issue but not really gotten anywhere this was an exercise in mutual masturbation not progress of thought.
Your opinion. Which is shit.
YOU are the one who bitched about me coming into your thread and speaking
This?
You coming into a thread about ways government is infiltrating and subverting public forums and thrashing around like a bull in a china shop is literally one of the ways that government disrupts our speech. So either you are an idiot or a goon.
Is an observation. No where does it say you are not welcome or to fuck off.
misdirection
From what?
focus on attacking the character
And? Fuck you faggot. Don't like my free speech? Suck my cock.
suggestion doesn't nes. equal tone policing fucktard.
opinion, correct.
this?? what a fully thought out thought! so much many this
no it does not say that, you are correct. prepare for blackboxing to change that. is all you can do quote your own personal attack? not even make a point?
the central topic.
awww personal attacks. falling to the bottom so soon!
fails to have meaningful discussion
spends time making it look like it is meaningful discussion
ends with a personal attack
shilling detected
noting now for posterity your conversation was initially with a known and proven shill
I have been pondering these same thoughts. I hesitate fearing my own paranoia has taken over. I watch and I think through the scenarios. But from your list, I believe I have convinced myself that one of them is what we have been talking about. I am reluctant to say this for fear of being wrong and doing the one thing I have been concerned about, which is fracturing the community, but I an not ready to keep turning a blind eye to what I believe.
Sadly we will never know who is a shill or government puppet. If you even get close they will vanish into the ether and the next faggot will step up their operations.
Yes, but the one thing is that this process take months or maybe years to put into place, so if we can identify then the cost for implementation can be too excessive for the actors.
I would say weeks or months, as a good poster can build up credibility pretty fast if they know the audience and have even a little google-fu. But what is stopping them from having multiple accounts each in different stages each ready to take up the banner when one falls? Nothing, infact it is almost par for course in forums to have multiple accounts for normal users. Power users almost can't work with out a few alts to upvote their content to give it that extra push so the front page algorithm picks it up, and then herd mentality kicks in and people see upvotes or downvotes and most then do similar.
The thing is, that the extreme rolls that are part of this process have to have a transition process from normal to extreme. Each specific niche or flavor has to be curated and not duplicated. I can see that this is possible, but it seems there would be diminishing returns as each account is identified and neutralized.
SaneGoatiSwear ago
i want to point out officially
TheKobold ago
YOU use these tactics.
TheKobold ago
It seems the only way to prevent this type of abuse is non-participation, but that is definitely not the way any of us want to go. It plays into one of their goals. What is there to do but be vigilant? Even that can end badly as you are cast out as the paranoid freak that calls every one a shill and posts unending rants about conspiracies and hostile take overs.
SaneGoatiSwear ago
TheKobold ago
You coming into a thread about ways government is infiltrating and subverting public forums and thrashing around like a bull in a china shop is literally one of the ways that government disrupts our speech. So either you are an idiot or a goon.
SaneGoatiSwear ago
no.
i have made a point
like you made the point about me
in my own way
in essence TLDR: i mirrored how you brought me up.
TheKobold ago
I didn't bring you up, I used you as an example. If i was talking about you I would of been much more straight forward in my accusations.
Nice.
SaneGoatiSwear ago
after, nice goalpost movement attempt
TheKobold ago
There has to be a discussion for goal posts to have been moved. Hasn't been one with you yet. Would you like to have one or would you like to thrash around this china shop some more?
individualin1984 ago
But what if you decided to take on that paranoid freak persona in order to shield yourself from others doing it to you, and then used that persona to purposely undermine Voat?
SaneGoatiSwear ago
hey HEY hey.
individualin1984 ago
Oh hello, Having a nice day are we?
TheKobold ago
Seems like another page from their book that is missing from the article.
SaneGoatiSwear ago
a lot of pages are
individualin1984 ago
Yes, Perhaps it is the next phase. A way to cloak yourself and play off the concern of a group that has a history of being targeted. If your goal was to undermine them you might take on this roll and then keep pushing it to create derision in the group and attack leaders in the community. It is sort of a concern troll mixed with the constant mantra that you are here to help or improve.
SaneGoatiSwear ago
i'm just a goat. who wants to speak free. who was attacked, banned, brigaded, character assassinated.
for what?
for speaking my mind.
hurt fee fees aren't a reason to block, ban, destroy.
that shit is what i'm up against.
TheKobold ago
Similar to an agent provocateur. It seems like it would be easy to accomplish, take a stance on a supported ideal push it to the extremes. The opposing side will use them as a poster child for why they should be curtailed, it also forms a factional split with in the group as people oppose the extreme for the moderate position and others support the extreme. Use the extreme angle to sow even further chaos among the moderate position until they fracture into nothing or gradually take on the extreme position at least in name.
All said and done, you have marginalized the moderate opposition and radicalized the extreme opposition and bolstered your own position by pointing out the absurdity of the extremes position and by making it look like the moderates where never moderates to begin with.
SaneGoatiSwear ago
@individualin1984 and kobold
what do you think of all of this??
first selection of recent evidential comments MEGA
second selection of recent evidential comments MEGA2
third selection of recent evidential comments MEGA3
selection of recent evidential POSTS
calling out all the shills, re: all this evidence
TheKobold ago
I think it is a bunch of whining and persecution complex.
individualin1984 ago
Throw in a little no true scottsman, and anyone in the moderate group that starts to catch on to you, can be labeled as part of the opposition and also insulate your self from detection. Since you have already labeled anyone that may bring attention to your actions it becomes more difficult for them to be credible in attacking you for your true goals.
TheKobold ago
You probably don't even have to take an extreme view point to ingrate yourself into the group to dilute their message.
Take a long look at any power user. They have a niche or cliche they stick to. Even the benign power users. Then they slowly gain a following and moderation powers. All so they can steer the conversation. It seems to easy to be legitimate. But if you consider human nature, how we adjust our ideals to fit with the group, how we silence ourselves to limit ridicule and keep group cohesion.
What is scary is that they are completely indistinguishable from a legitimate user. Maybe HPOP is just a weirdo that likes butt plugs and has to much time on his hands, or he could be a honey pot for weirdos to share any illegal sex acts or some one trying to subvert societies sexual norms. Maybe the "day of the rope" guys are really here to weed out any one that plans on trying to commit hate crimes or they really are genocidal racists(true meaning not the sjw one). Maybe Sane is just a normal guy off his meds and no life...
The maybes are innumerable. That scares me, the uncertainty and the manipulation.
SaneGoatiSwear ago
maybe sane goat is just an asshole
or some amaleky jidf psyop
in all seriousness
we can really only be sure of ourselves, eh, and even not then with all this fucking mind control going on.
what we do know 100% is that CTR came here, sjws run most of voat, and there's a good amount of bots as accounts on voat.
those have all been proven.
there's that script.
do you understand how fucking ironic it is you said the above shit then regurgitated known and proven shills' script attempting to character assassinate me?
lol.
for fucks sake
you are worried about kool aid while drinking it.
you know, just fyi
from the mother fucker himself.
TheKobold ago
Oh no... I repeated a oft repeated phrase to provide an example that any one could be an undercover government goon.
Do you not know how examples work?
SaneGoatiSwear ago
fair enough.
you could have quantified it better, or put it in context "there's this scirpt that:"
you know it's not like you were both just writing quick one liners
that was some intense discussion that i hope continues.
also,
i've interjected myself into it like a fucking asshole so please respond meaningfully if you feel you want to.
this is the heart of a serious issue, or close to it, and i have not seen others get at it like this.
good on ya, mate.
TheKobold ago
Try not to tell me how to conduct my free speech please.
SaneGoatiSwear ago
you have talked about an issue
but not really gotten anywhere
this was an exercise in mutual masturbation not progress of thought.
you can speak however you want
and so can i
if i was just tone policing, then surely you were as well.
except wait a second
i din't tell you how to talk
i simply spoke freely
YOU are the one who bitched about me coming into your thread and speaking
bad kobold
TheKobold ago
This isn't telling me how to talk?
Your opinion. Which is shit.
This?
Is an observation. No where does it say you are not welcome or to fuck off.
From what?
And? Fuck you faggot. Don't like my free speech? Suck my cock.
SaneGoatiSwear ago
suggestion doesn't nes. equal tone policing fucktard.
opinion, correct.
this?? what a fully thought out thought! so much many this
no it does not say that, you are correct. prepare for blackboxing to change that. is all you can do quote your own personal attack? not even make a point?
the central topic.
awww personal attacks. falling to the bottom so soon!
TheKobold ago
https://voat.co/v/whatever/1605853/7834543 Much meaningful, very wow...
Nah, just trying to keep up with your discombobulated way of typing.
Btw "this" was referring to the comment you called bitching about you coming into this thread.
It was an choice. Either like my free speech or suck my cock.
Shilling for what?
Shill : an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others.
According to you. You are nobody of note.
SaneGoatiSwear ago
dat focus
TheKobold ago
Misdirection.
SaneGoatiSwear ago
fail. /|\
:( you haven't changed at all.
TheKobold ago
Still haven't informed me who I am shilling for.
More misdirection, just like every single one of these posts.
I'll save you from reading my comment history.
You are going to say I shill for imgur and reddit.
individualin1984 ago
I have been pondering these same thoughts. I hesitate fearing my own paranoia has taken over. I watch and I think through the scenarios. But from your list, I believe I have convinced myself that one of them is what we have been talking about. I am reluctant to say this for fear of being wrong and doing the one thing I have been concerned about, which is fracturing the community, but I an not ready to keep turning a blind eye to what I believe.
TheKobold ago
Sadly we will never know who is a shill or government puppet. If you even get close they will vanish into the ether and the next faggot will step up their operations.
individualin1984 ago
Yes, but the one thing is that this process take months or maybe years to put into place, so if we can identify then the cost for implementation can be too excessive for the actors.
TheKobold ago
I would say weeks or months, as a good poster can build up credibility pretty fast if they know the audience and have even a little google-fu. But what is stopping them from having multiple accounts each in different stages each ready to take up the banner when one falls? Nothing, infact it is almost par for course in forums to have multiple accounts for normal users. Power users almost can't work with out a few alts to upvote their content to give it that extra push so the front page algorithm picks it up, and then herd mentality kicks in and people see upvotes or downvotes and most then do similar.
individualin1984 ago
The thing is, that the extreme rolls that are part of this process have to have a transition process from normal to extreme. Each specific niche or flavor has to be curated and not duplicated. I can see that this is possible, but it seems there would be diminishing returns as each account is identified and neutralized.
TheKobold ago
Yes. But Identification is the hard part. All we ever have is guesses and coincidence.
individualin1984 ago
Well, Sometimes they reveal themselves.