You ask me about my sources, and I can tell you that they are first hand knowledge by living in the middle east. Do you want links to that?
Regarding christianity, I am quite familiar with the first christians and how they puzzled the romans with their no-fighting attitude, even when they were tortured and killed. Trust me, I don't need lessons on that, or on how christianity started changing to accept war, violence and conflict.
The video you share of politicalislam is flawed as it is driven by conclusions and biased.
For example, he simplifies that the invasion of Spain by the muslims was blody and driven by expansionism. The fact that the invasion was initiated by the request of support from a noble called Julian to the governor of North Africa so to fight the Visigoth king Don Rodrigo. While the figure of Julian/Olban is in dispute, the fact is that after the battle of Guadalete the muslim army invaded the peninsula in just seven years, with little to non resistance, due mainly to the genorous surrender terms they offered compared to the Visigoth. Moreover the infrastructure (many back from the romans) was in disrepair and the muslims were bringing with them improvements in living standards.
You may judge islam as that time as expansionist, but so where all other empires, kingdoms and powers. That there is people in the islamic world nowadays that argue that the Al-Andalus needs to be recovered and the world conquered, does not mean that all the islamic world thinks so or supports the idea. Those radicals are an extreme minority. That minority does exist. Even within Salasfism there are different currents and the jihadist one (advocating violence) is a minority, and the majority of salafists (at least in Europe) condemn violence. That doesn't mean that they have to be given free pass, and do whatever they want. Don't get me wrong. I do believe they should adapt to local culture and I oppose the regulation of the public space or laws by religious principles as much as the next one (for any religion, regardless). And I do believe that Salafism is a very dangerous ideology that should be nurtured, supported or facilitated in any possible way (neither many extreme christian churches). But guess what, Salafism/wahabism is being exported by Saudi, and none of the initiatives that Trump has proposed or made address that. No prosecution of the Saudis suspects of facilitating the 9/11, or end of relationships, or ban to enter US, ... nothing. Why?
My guess, because this is just a distraction. But before of explaining why, let me ask you a question. How many muslim people you know? And I mean people that you are friends with, that you have talked with beyond chitchat and shared a meal with.
How many muslim people you come across your daily life? Have you ever had a conflict with any due to their believes more than you would have had with any other group?
I do agree that there should be limits set so people that cross the line (disrispect, stealing, violence, etc) are managed and put away. I do understand that the immigration crisis in Europe has been horribly managed and that the lukewarm response (due to the left-confused) has brought a lot of problems.
But I do believe that this trend of fostering racism and hate among working class people only benefits those on the top that are reaping millions of a system that is crooked.
I am sure that you are a hard working person, law abiding, and that you would do anything for the people you love and your family. From that perspective you have all in common with the immigrants, and the only difference is that you probably didn't need to leave your country to be able to improve your and their lives. But if the time comes, and you need to choose between staying in your country or providing a better life for them, I bet you would go and do what is needed or whatever you can.
So the big irony of all this is that who is really taking the money from our pockets, who is benefiting of the system of corruption and influence, the ones that really don't want anything to change, are the ones that will benefit the most of getting the society focusing on race, religion, origin, or class issues.
All these measures from Trump that will spark the race discussion will allow them to get away with a lot of decisions that will benefit the top minority, and will damage the whole majority. Because both right and left will be engaged on a fratricide discussion that will lead nowhere.
Your interpretation of christianity as a willing war religion fits very well with the nationalistic right movement, but clashes with the essence of its core values. We will certainly not get to agree on this as probably this sits very close to your identity and would not accept any challenge on this regard so we can move on from it.
First of all you need to understand that you don't know what are my sources, and they are not propagandized reports. We need to distinguish between refugees, and economic migrants.
Refugees need asistance. There are over four million Syrian refugees outside of Syria, 90% of them just in Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey and others. How many do you think make it to US?
Economic migrants, as cowardly as you see them, is basically everybody that has moved from their hometown and their neighborhood to find a living. There is nothing more american than striving and wanting to improve. If you are american you will most probably be an economic migrant or descendant of one as everybody else. And economic migrants want to work.
But you are admitting that the ban is targeting to stop migrants and refugees. It has nothing to do with Terrorism. You just want to keep your neighborhood as white as possible even at expense of the principles that made your country great.
Tell me how it is in Syria.
Tell me how many Syrian refugees has US accepted.
Tell me how many Christian communities have volunteered to host and support Syrians in the US.
Tell me how the ban will help the people running away from war to be safer
The problem is that you need to address the root cause first, and it is the lack of safety or future in their home countries. You may ban the immigrants and hope they stay back home rebuilding their homeland, and that's what they wish the most, but they can't. Emigrating is the last resort when everything else has failed.
Do you believe the Syrian refugees have options to rebuild their homeland at the moment? Yemen? Sudan? Libya? No, they are fucked in a fucked up situation. The ban only brings more suffering and blocks one possible getaway option.
It is amazing how the people that call themselves god loving christians, that support Trump, aren't outraged by this measure that only increases human suffering.
And Iran? Seriously? how many terrorists from Iran or linked to Iran have there been in US? This is pure BS. You know who is happy with that? Saudi and Israel. You know who is damaged? The progressive iranians that could help to get Iran moving forward and that are chased in Iran for non conforming.
Saudi is financing the islamic extremists that create many of the conflicts that create the refugees when people run away from them.
So let's ban the common people and let's allow those that create the problem. Yeah, great way to solve the root cause. (/Sarcasm)
You weren't here complaining about Hillary when she was nearly elected or prior to it.
I wasn't active on Voat period then, but if I had been I would have said what I said elsewhere. I was convinced Trump was a patsy to get her elected and she was going to steal the election. Fortunately I was wrong.
You clearly have a bias going on.
A bias toward the USA, bootlicker.
I'm not wasting anymore energy on non-voaters
Boo hoo hoo. Wahh cry me a fucking river I'm not in your faggot circlejerk club. If your man can't stand up to scrutiny then he's bad for America.
Basically: In third world countries you can buy papers (like a passport for example) from any other country. You can easily buy a Somalian or Syrian passport. If you have a, for example, Saudi passport, then you better have a really good reason to ask for refuge or you will most likely be denied.
This is about a religion that aims for world dominance.
Ignoring the rest of your post to focus on just this.
Saudi Arabia is the fucking enemy here. They're the #1 enemy in that fight, banning flights from Iran is fucking retarded if you're going to gloss over the one country that has been a thorn in our side since the 1950's. They fuck with us whenever they can, they finance terrorism, including the deadliest terror attack ever committed on US soil, they ruin our plans overseas, they have actively tried to destroy American companies by tanking oil prices, they've tried to destroy our economy consistently since the 1970's and all the while they infiltrate our government by corrupting weak traitors.
Do you remember when the families of 9/11 victims tried to sue Saudi Arabia? I do. It didn't go so well because the shitheads in the D.C. swamp didn't want the Saudis to get upset. Obama didn't want the Saudis to get upset. Hillary Clinton's campaign was heavily financed by Saudi money.
Oh, and Trump has business ties to Saudi Arabia too. Actually I think (digging for a source is hard) he was introduced to prince Al-Waheed Bin Talal back in the mid 2000's by his old buddy Bill Clinton. Funny! That same prince who suddenly wasn't Donald's friend when Hillary was running but when she lost he did another flip and is now buddies with Trump again.
I'm not ashamed of a motherfucking thing, this needs to be known because if we elected a fucking Saudi shill to office it can't be ignored. Election's over with, if impeachment needs to happen it needs to happen.
They are all either on the list of state-sponsored terrorism or have been at one time.
It's not a Muslim ban. If it was that list would include the largest Muslim nation, Indonesia, as well as Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, Jordan, Malaysia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, and other African nations.
The ban prevents citizens of Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Somalia, Syria, Yemen and Libya.
You are correct when you point out that there are countries with more terrorists. But the banned countries are all countries, that over the last few years, have been completely fucked over by the US. (Thanks Obama)
There are terrorist organizations all over the world. But then there are these countries, where their people have recently lost everything because of the US.
It is not an issue of which governments support what, it is an issue of which countries have people trying to flood into the US. Saudi nationals are pretty happy to stay in their own country and are not trying to come here in large numbers.
Saudi is financing islamic extremists right and left, either directly or privately. See ISIS, Al Nusra, wahabi mosques in Pakistan, UK, France, etc. So that's how you get terrorists.
The ban is just a band aid. The true problem is Saudi (not Iran for example), and it is a full blown internal hemorrhage that no band aid will fix. If Trump really wanted to stop ISIS and terrorism, would target Saudi and its wahabisim. But he only wants cosmetic measures and to keep the money flowing apparently.
OP asked why the ban didn't include Saudi Arabia, I said it wouldn't help to include them. Banning Saudi immigrates does nothing to stop their government and elites from funding terrorists.
Banning Iran doesn't help either, and makes even less sense than banning Saudi for that matter. Saudi is the heart of the terrorist issue, Iran isn't, yet Iran is in the list and Saudi is not. I am sorry but I just can't see this as a meaningful decision and just a cosmetic one to get the alt-right media cheer-leading.
Yeah they just love financing terrorists to plow airliners loaded with Americans into American buildings.
Remember when people were trying to sue Saudi Arabia? Then the politicians in the Saudis pockets stopped it? I remember that, it's why I didn't vote for Hillary Clinton.
I don't know about the USA but the UK sells a hell of a lot of weapons to Saudi.
Between May 2010 and March 2015 the Coalition government licensed almost £4billion of arms to Saudi Arabia, according to the Campaign Against Arms Trade (CAAT).
Not surprising.. Iv'e watched a few interviews with politicians of democratic countries trying to make excuses as to why they're in bed with a country that is one of the worst in the world for human rights. You can see them lying through their teeth.
Could this temporary ban because shit is going to go down about US funding terrorists in the middle east...travelers from there would be rightly outraged.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but last I checked there weren't many Saudi refugees?
I doesn't really matter where you were born, you can just buy a fake passport from anywhere in the middle east. He banned migrants from war torn countries because one pretends to be from one of those countries to have an excuse to claim asylum.
Saudi Arabia is the enemy. They finance terrorist groups who want to destroy us, tried to destroy American companies by crashing oil prices, and they routinely benefit from American money. They have bought American politicians and the last administration was rife with Saudi influence.
They need to go, they need to be put on the list of countries that sponsor terrorism, and anyone who works for them (Obama, Clinton, etc fucking etc) needs to be tried for treason.
Hmm... I do agree the US/West should work hard becoming energy independent, but don't see the 0,1% MENAPs benefiting from oil sales saying no to $, no matter what rules Trump/the West sets up, as they have nothing else of value to export/enrich themselves.
I don't even see them reciprocating the travel ban, since who should they then kidnap for ransom, who should buy their shitty touristy handicraft + it would be harder for NGOs to waste money there. MENAP is worthless and a burden, best left contained but otherwise ignored.
What this does is narrow the available avenues of infiltration. So countries that covertly support terrorism (take S. Arabia for instance) are forced to take more blatant actions than they already are. If they do, the chances of them tipping their hand increases significantly. Which means they may not. Which further slows down the influx of malicious actors.
Just a theory. I don't know a lot about geopolitics. But maybe by leaving those countries like Saudi Arabia out of the list, refugees from the listed countries might make their way to the nonlisted ones. For example, a Somalian would try to get to UAE or Saudi Arabia instead of going directly to the US.
Trump has been promoting "extreme vetting" which I presume means if there are any doubts, such as if the applicant is undocumented, then Trump won't be taking any risks.
If a Muslim tried to get in from a "tolerated" Muslim country then their visa / documentation should show their travels... and they will be told to fuck off because they are intolerably disgusting pieces of human garbage.
Exactly, and it's so perfect because once the US turns them away, they go back to Saudi Arabia or UAE and... boom. Now radical Islamic countries deal with radical Islamists.
Trump can then say "see how good the ban was?" . Like I said, I'm not very read up on geopolitics, but it's just a thought.
Echo59 ago
You ask me about my sources, and I can tell you that they are first hand knowledge by living in the middle east. Do you want links to that?
Regarding christianity, I am quite familiar with the first christians and how they puzzled the romans with their no-fighting attitude, even when they were tortured and killed. Trust me, I don't need lessons on that, or on how christianity started changing to accept war, violence and conflict.
The video you share of politicalislam is flawed as it is driven by conclusions and biased. For example, he simplifies that the invasion of Spain by the muslims was blody and driven by expansionism. The fact that the invasion was initiated by the request of support from a noble called Julian to the governor of North Africa so to fight the Visigoth king Don Rodrigo. While the figure of Julian/Olban is in dispute, the fact is that after the battle of Guadalete the muslim army invaded the peninsula in just seven years, with little to non resistance, due mainly to the genorous surrender terms they offered compared to the Visigoth. Moreover the infrastructure (many back from the romans) was in disrepair and the muslims were bringing with them improvements in living standards.
You may judge islam as that time as expansionist, but so where all other empires, kingdoms and powers. That there is people in the islamic world nowadays that argue that the Al-Andalus needs to be recovered and the world conquered, does not mean that all the islamic world thinks so or supports the idea. Those radicals are an extreme minority. That minority does exist. Even within Salasfism there are different currents and the jihadist one (advocating violence) is a minority, and the majority of salafists (at least in Europe) condemn violence. That doesn't mean that they have to be given free pass, and do whatever they want. Don't get me wrong. I do believe they should adapt to local culture and I oppose the regulation of the public space or laws by religious principles as much as the next one (for any religion, regardless). And I do believe that Salafism is a very dangerous ideology that should be nurtured, supported or facilitated in any possible way (neither many extreme christian churches). But guess what, Salafism/wahabism is being exported by Saudi, and none of the initiatives that Trump has proposed or made address that. No prosecution of the Saudis suspects of facilitating the 9/11, or end of relationships, or ban to enter US, ... nothing. Why?
My guess, because this is just a distraction. But before of explaining why, let me ask you a question. How many muslim people you know? And I mean people that you are friends with, that you have talked with beyond chitchat and shared a meal with.
How many muslim people you come across your daily life? Have you ever had a conflict with any due to their believes more than you would have had with any other group?
I do agree that there should be limits set so people that cross the line (disrispect, stealing, violence, etc) are managed and put away. I do understand that the immigration crisis in Europe has been horribly managed and that the lukewarm response (due to the left-confused) has brought a lot of problems. But I do believe that this trend of fostering racism and hate among working class people only benefits those on the top that are reaping millions of a system that is crooked.
I am sure that you are a hard working person, law abiding, and that you would do anything for the people you love and your family. From that perspective you have all in common with the immigrants, and the only difference is that you probably didn't need to leave your country to be able to improve your and their lives. But if the time comes, and you need to choose between staying in your country or providing a better life for them, I bet you would go and do what is needed or whatever you can.
So the big irony of all this is that who is really taking the money from our pockets, who is benefiting of the system of corruption and influence, the ones that really don't want anything to change, are the ones that will benefit the most of getting the society focusing on race, religion, origin, or class issues.
All these measures from Trump that will spark the race discussion will allow them to get away with a lot of decisions that will benefit the top minority, and will damage the whole majority. Because both right and left will be engaged on a fratricide discussion that will lead nowhere.
Echo59 ago
Your interpretation of christianity as a willing war religion fits very well with the nationalistic right movement, but clashes with the essence of its core values. We will certainly not get to agree on this as probably this sits very close to your identity and would not accept any challenge on this regard so we can move on from it.
First of all you need to understand that you don't know what are my sources, and they are not propagandized reports. We need to distinguish between refugees, and economic migrants.
Refugees need asistance. There are over four million Syrian refugees outside of Syria, 90% of them just in Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey and others. How many do you think make it to US?
Economic migrants, as cowardly as you see them, is basically everybody that has moved from their hometown and their neighborhood to find a living. There is nothing more american than striving and wanting to improve. If you are american you will most probably be an economic migrant or descendant of one as everybody else. And economic migrants want to work.
But you are admitting that the ban is targeting to stop migrants and refugees. It has nothing to do with Terrorism. You just want to keep your neighborhood as white as possible even at expense of the principles that made your country great.
Who do you think that wins with this measure?
Jameshp ago
yep and Obama is the one who brought in executive orders as well
Kommander ago
The order never outlines which countries are banned
v4Zz ago
I hope Trump bombs Saudi Arabia to oblivion.
Echo59 ago
Tell me how it is in Syria. Tell me how many Syrian refugees has US accepted. Tell me how many Christian communities have volunteered to host and support Syrians in the US. Tell me how the ban will help the people running away from war to be safer
Echo59 ago
First you create the safe zone, then you ban the access to a safe country. Not all the way around.
Echo59 ago
The problem is that you need to address the root cause first, and it is the lack of safety or future in their home countries. You may ban the immigrants and hope they stay back home rebuilding their homeland, and that's what they wish the most, but they can't. Emigrating is the last resort when everything else has failed. Do you believe the Syrian refugees have options to rebuild their homeland at the moment? Yemen? Sudan? Libya? No, they are fucked in a fucked up situation. The ban only brings more suffering and blocks one possible getaway option.
It is amazing how the people that call themselves god loving christians, that support Trump, aren't outraged by this measure that only increases human suffering.
And Iran? Seriously? how many terrorists from Iran or linked to Iran have there been in US? This is pure BS. You know who is happy with that? Saudi and Israel. You know who is damaged? The progressive iranians that could help to get Iran moving forward and that are chased in Iran for non conforming.
beetles ago
If you look which Arab countries countries have been giving our politicians money it starts to make sense... https://theintercept.com/2016/07/14/donald-trump-praises-dictators-but-hillary-clinton-befriends-them/
Echo59 ago
Saudi is financing the islamic extremists that create many of the conflicts that create the refugees when people run away from them. So let's ban the common people and let's allow those that create the problem. Yeah, great way to solve the root cause. (/Sarcasm)
Bfwilley ago
Ah there are no refugees coming in from Saudi Arabia because they aren't dumb enough to take any.
Jixijenga ago
I wasn't active on Voat period then, but if I had been I would have said what I said elsewhere. I was convinced Trump was a patsy to get her elected and she was going to steal the election. Fortunately I was wrong.
A bias toward the USA, bootlicker.
Boo hoo hoo. Wahh cry me a fucking river I'm not in your faggot circlejerk club. If your man can't stand up to scrutiny then he's bad for America.
belphegorsprime ago
American and Brittish sheep never get the real story regarding the middle east, do they?
Some history to help put things in perspective.
NeedPolyGF ago
It's important to end terrorism, so what' wrong with upvoating this kind of news?
Jixijenga ago
If.
"If" is the word you missed there.
josemon ago
Basically: In third world countries you can buy papers (like a passport for example) from any other country. You can easily buy a Somalian or Syrian passport. If you have a, for example, Saudi passport, then you better have a really good reason to ask for refuge or you will most likely be denied.
NeedPolyGF ago
If Saudi Arabia isn't on the list of banned nations for immigration, then Trump is a damn LIAR. Will Rand Paul expose this crap?
Jixijenga ago
Ignoring the rest of your post to focus on just this.
Saudi Arabia is the fucking enemy here. They're the #1 enemy in that fight, banning flights from Iran is fucking retarded if you're going to gloss over the one country that has been a thorn in our side since the 1950's. They fuck with us whenever they can, they finance terrorism, including the deadliest terror attack ever committed on US soil, they ruin our plans overseas, they have actively tried to destroy American companies by tanking oil prices, they've tried to destroy our economy consistently since the 1970's and all the while they infiltrate our government by corrupting weak traitors.
Do you remember when the families of 9/11 victims tried to sue Saudi Arabia? I do. It didn't go so well because the shitheads in the D.C. swamp didn't want the Saudis to get upset. Obama didn't want the Saudis to get upset. Hillary Clinton's campaign was heavily financed by Saudi money.
Oh, and Trump has business ties to Saudi Arabia too. Actually I think (digging for a source is hard) he was introduced to prince Al-Waheed Bin Talal back in the mid 2000's by his old buddy Bill Clinton. Funny! That same prince who suddenly wasn't Donald's friend when Hillary was running but when she lost he did another flip and is now buddies with Trump again.
I'm not ashamed of a motherfucking thing, this needs to be known because if we elected a fucking Saudi shill to office it can't be ignored. Election's over with, if impeachment needs to happen it needs to happen.
NeedPolyGF ago
And the Saudis are in cahoots with the Zionists.
Jixijenga ago
I'd say they have similar ambitions, the rest of us are just pawns to them. Both are enemies of America.
SChalice ago
"Basically, saudis should utimately build a wall, too"
Allah already did it for them. It is called the Arabian Desert.
physicscat ago
They are all either on the list of state-sponsored terrorism or have been at one time.
It's not a Muslim ban. If it was that list would include the largest Muslim nation, Indonesia, as well as Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, Jordan, Malaysia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, and other African nations.
Why are you hashtagging on Voat?
NeedPolyGF ago
All Muslims (or at least terrorist types like Wahhabis & Sunnis) and Zionists need to be banned from immigrating here.
birds_sing ago
The ban prevents citizens of Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Somalia, Syria, Yemen and Libya.
You are correct when you point out that there are countries with more terrorists. But the banned countries are all countries, that over the last few years, have been completely fucked over by the US. (Thanks Obama)
There are terrorist organizations all over the world. But then there are these countries, where their people have recently lost everything because of the US.
jw48335 ago
Trump has business interests in Saudi Arabia. That is why it's not part of the band.
Jameshp ago
Trump has business interests with country that backs isis and shares the same wahhabi ideology.
NeedPolyGF ago
What are those business interests exactly?
Runaway-White-Slave ago
You seem to have spelled ISRAEL wrong..........
Slayfire122 ago
*2914
Coolidges_Ghost ago
This.
moonlaundry ago
All the shit talk against Saudi Arabia and he can't touch them. You ever wonder who really runs things?
Girthcontrol ago
Hezbollah receives funding and weapons from Iran.
8Hz_WAN_IP ago
It is not an issue of which governments support what, it is an issue of which countries have people trying to flood into the US. Saudi nationals are pretty happy to stay in their own country and are not trying to come here in large numbers.
Echo59 ago
I think you might be missing the bigger picture.
Saudi is financing islamic extremists right and left, either directly or privately. See ISIS, Al Nusra, wahabi mosques in Pakistan, UK, France, etc. So that's how you get terrorists.
The ban is just a band aid. The true problem is Saudi (not Iran for example), and it is a full blown internal hemorrhage that no band aid will fix. If Trump really wanted to stop ISIS and terrorism, would target Saudi and its wahabisim. But he only wants cosmetic measures and to keep the money flowing apparently.
8Hz_WAN_IP ago
OP asked why the ban didn't include Saudi Arabia, I said it wouldn't help to include them. Banning Saudi immigrates does nothing to stop their government and elites from funding terrorists.
Echo59 ago
Banning Iran doesn't help either, and makes even less sense than banning Saudi for that matter. Saudi is the heart of the terrorist issue, Iran isn't, yet Iran is in the list and Saudi is not. I am sorry but I just can't see this as a meaningful decision and just a cosmetic one to get the alt-right media cheer-leading.
Jixijenga ago
Yeah they just love financing terrorists to plow airliners loaded with Americans into American buildings.
Remember when people were trying to sue Saudi Arabia? Then the politicians in the Saudis pockets stopped it? I remember that, it's why I didn't vote for Hillary Clinton.
newoldwave ago
Why is Saudi Arabia given a pass?
Echo59 ago
Money, it's just because money. So much for anti-terrorism but the love of money surpasses everything else.
ToVoatOrNotToGoat ago
I don't know about the USA but the UK sells a hell of a lot of weapons to Saudi.
SChalice ago
US sells more... $115 billion
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/08/obama-administration-offered-115-billion-weapons-saudi-arabia-report
ToVoatOrNotToGoat ago
Not surprising.. Iv'e watched a few interviews with politicians of democratic countries trying to make excuses as to why they're in bed with a country that is one of the worst in the world for human rights. You can see them lying through their teeth.
Aaanndgo ago
Could this temporary ban because shit is going to go down about US funding terrorists in the middle east...travelers from there would be rightly outraged.
witchy_Woahman ago
Fantastic post, thanks for the info.
josemon ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but last I checked there weren't many Saudi refugees?
I doesn't really matter where you were born, you can just buy a fake passport from anywhere in the middle east. He banned migrants from war torn countries because one pretends to be from one of those countries to have an excuse to claim asylum.
Jixijenga ago
Saudi Arabia is the enemy. They finance terrorist groups who want to destroy us, tried to destroy American companies by crashing oil prices, and they routinely benefit from American money. They have bought American politicians and the last administration was rife with Saudi influence.
They need to go, they need to be put on the list of countries that sponsor terrorism, and anyone who works for them (Obama, Clinton, etc fucking etc) needs to be tried for treason.
josemon ago
Ok, I understand but how can you know that the papers the person is showing you are real?
Jixijenga ago
What papers and what person? I'm a bit confused.
YoungerX ago
Iran is a huge sponsor of terrorism. Iraq and Syria have many terrorists in their nations.
fagnig ago
Unless the OPEC dropping oil prices broke the back of US fracking (it didnt) then its energy independence is almost a done deal.
jsac ago
Trump should be held accountable we (this country!!) didnt vote him in to get more of the same bs half lies.... BAN THEM ALL.
7803172? ago
Hmm... I do agree the US/West should work hard becoming energy independent, but don't see the 0,1% MENAPs benefiting from oil sales saying no to $, no matter what rules Trump/the West sets up, as they have nothing else of value to export/enrich themselves.
I don't even see them reciprocating the travel ban, since who should they then kidnap for ransom, who should buy their shitty touristy handicraft + it would be harder for NGOs to waste money there. MENAP is worthless and a burden, best left contained but otherwise ignored.
Mr_Meesek ago
What this does is narrow the available avenues of infiltration. So countries that covertly support terrorism (take S. Arabia for instance) are forced to take more blatant actions than they already are. If they do, the chances of them tipping their hand increases significantly. Which means they may not. Which further slows down the influx of malicious actors.
7802524? ago
Nothing good come from the countries on the list, but I agree it should be longer. Entirety of MENAP should be included.
witchy_Woahman ago
Just a theory. I don't know a lot about geopolitics. But maybe by leaving those countries like Saudi Arabia out of the list, refugees from the listed countries might make their way to the nonlisted ones. For example, a Somalian would try to get to UAE or Saudi Arabia instead of going directly to the US.
Not very well thought out, but just a thought.
guinness2 ago
Trump has been promoting "extreme vetting" which I presume means if there are any doubts, such as if the applicant is undocumented, then Trump won't be taking any risks.
If a Muslim tried to get in from a "tolerated" Muslim country then their visa / documentation should show their travels... and they will be told to fuck off because they are intolerably disgusting pieces of human garbage.
witchy_Woahman ago
Exactly, and it's so perfect because once the US turns them away, they go back to Saudi Arabia or UAE and... boom. Now radical Islamic countries deal with radical Islamists.
Trump can then say "see how good the ban was?" . Like I said, I'm not very read up on geopolitics, but it's just a thought.