1) Guns are a form of protection.
Shields, armour and helmets protect you. Guns shoot toxic pieces of lead into other people.
2) Guns are a form of self-defence.
They can be, sure. However, statistically speaking, more guns are used in crimes than are used in self-defence.
A study of gun use in the 1990s, by David Hemenway at the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, found that criminal use of guns is far more common than self-defense use of guns.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
Obviously, potential criminals are going to purchase guns if they are legal. Therefore, you make a useless trade: increased personal protection for increased need for it. The only logical outcome of that trade is more people will die.
3) I don't trust the government.
If the government wants to get you, then your Dirty Harry handgun is not going to stop them. End of story.
4) A 100 lb woman shouldn't have to struggle with a 300 lb rapist.
But you can't arm the victim without simultaneously arming the rapist. So, instead of a rape occurring, which is consequently then investigated by the people whose job it is to investigate rapes, you have a bloodbath. Maybe the rapist gets killed, maybe the victim gets killed, maybe they both get killed, or maybe innocent bystanders get killed.
There are alternative ways to deal with rapists which are final, much safer, and do not end in loss of life.
5) Guns don't kill people. People kill people.
Then it is a stupid idea to give them guns then, isn't it? Unless you are trying to make fucking sure.
Any thoughts?
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ShillBuster ago
Good post. Right to the point, for the most part.
I agree with the principle of your arguments, but my issue is a practical one. Asking Americans to give up their guns is like asking them to cut off their dicks. The gun industry is worth tens of billions of dollars in the US -- and that's just the declared profit, without counting the black market stuff. People tend to be a bit reluctant to give up that kind of money. Plus, arms dealers aren't necessarily known as being the most reasonable people anyway.
I'm surprised I got in first, tbh. Asking for, "any thoughts" is pretty much like showing a red rag to a bull.
guinness2 ago
I'm permanently in a state of surprise these days.
So tell me, if you believe that guns aren't a valid form of protection or self defense, do you think the American Military / Defense Force should stop using guns too?
What do you think is the most effective strategy to get gangs and crime syndicates to hand over their guns to the authorities?
How do you suppose a disarmed public should protect itself from a corrupt government / domestic enemies?
That last dot point is an important one - hypothetically: if Hillary Clinton was successful in committing widespread electoral fraud and ending our Constitutional right to participate in free elections with the intention of raping our country into a Mugabe-style corruption-driven dictatorship, how would a disarmed population defend themselves against her and her police and military once she owned us like chattel?
DoestThouEvenLift ago
I don't think it's a case of "belief". OP agreed that guns can be used for self-defence, but they just factually aren't a form of protection. Guns don't stop bullets, cars, planes or even flying squirrels from killing you.
Your question seems to be grounded in the circular reasoning that, since gangs probably won't want to give up their weapons, we should encourage gangs to buy weapons by legalising them. Imagine if we took the same attitude with murder? Gang members won't stop killing folks? Well, shit. Let's just legalise murder! Is that your plan?
There is of course a logical answer to your question, but I get the impression that you don't want to hear it. You simply slap large mandatory prison sentences on anybody found in possession of a gun. You give people five years for carrying a piece when they only get two for larceny and people will be throwing their guns at you.
Again, your question is based on the false reasoning that guns protect you from a corrupt government right now. Haven't you spent the last six months spamming Voat with tales about Hillary's "corruption"? Well, what have your guns done to stop it?
Fuck all is the answer you are looking for, my good friend.
kneo24 ago
Well guns do stop some things. No form of protection is 100% fool proof. If we go by the logic that it's not fool proof, why use any protection anywhere? It's a slippery slope. You use the means you have at your disposal.
Can you show any statistics that gang members get their guns legally? Is that a statistic that even exists? It's my understanding that a lot of them own guns illegally, and a large part of that is they do illegal things with those guns.