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ShillBuster ago

Good post. Right to the point, for the most part.

I agree with the principle of your arguments, but my issue is a practical one. Asking Americans to give up their guns is like asking them to cut off their dicks. The gun industry is worth tens of billions of dollars in the US -- and that's just the declared profit, without counting the black market stuff. People tend to be a bit reluctant to give up that kind of money. Plus, arms dealers aren't necessarily known as being the most reasonable people anyway.

I'm surprised I got in first, tbh. Asking for, "any thoughts" is pretty much like showing a red rag to a bull.

MiMx ago

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." -- George Washington

“Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference. When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour.” -- George Washington, Address to 1st session of Congress

Sonic ago

http://www.snopes.com/george-washington-gun-quote/

Second one is a real quote, but by C.S. Wheatly

MiMx ago

Among the many interesting objects, which will engage your attention, that of providing for the common defence will merit particular regard. To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined; to which end a Uniform and well digested plan is requisite: And their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories, as tend to render them independent on others, for essential, particularly for military supplies.

The proper establishment of the Troops which may be deemed indispensible, will be entitled to mature consideration. In the arrangements which may be made respecting it, it will be of importance to conciliate the comfortable support of the Officers and Soldiers with a due regard to economy.

-- George Washington

MiMx ago

“[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.” ― James Madison

I'm here all day folks.

Sonic ago

Ok, I agree with you, but you shouldn't be posting misinformation. It undermines your point if someone can easily google and shoot holes in your argument.

carlinco ago

Which to me implies that the right to keep arms includes not only the light weapons allowed right now.

MiMx ago

George Washington saw the terror of tyranny, and the greatness of freedom. He saw, and lead good men to die for it to create one of the greatest republics ever. Not to mention his life, actions, and words counter almost every point every made (as well as the overwelming amounts of history) of the OP.

Over time governments gain power which they are slow, if impossible, to reliqish it. As these governments gain power it is important to have freedom over saftey, and one way to have freedom is through the threat of violence.

"It should be that man controls government, not that government controls man." - Gary Johnson

“Civil Wars happen when the victimized are armed. Genocide happens when they are not.” ― A.E. Samaan

JodaMAX ago

This is not a good post, it's the least thought out piece of anti gun rhetoric I've ever seen. How the hell did it get this far?

xeemee ago

How the hell did it get this far?

bot/shill brigade

tribblepuncher ago

Bots, probably.

MiMx ago

“A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.” ― George Washington

carlinco ago

What he's saying here is, get a job before you get guns. But if you do work hard, get guns, too.

piratse ago

Why does an 8 day old account that is saying the opposite of the average voater have +133 upvoats and -43 votes? That's a LOT from a 2 hour old post......... VERY sketchy. For example a recent Pizza gate thread with over 400 upvoats, the top comment has +49 votes....... Looks like a bot to me!!

guinness2 ago

I'm surprised I got in first, tbh.

I'm permanently in a state of surprise these days.

  • So tell me, if you believe that guns aren't a valid form of protection or self defense, do you think the American Military / Defense Force should stop using guns too?

  • What do you think is the most effective strategy to get gangs and crime syndicates to hand over their guns to the authorities?

  • How do you suppose a disarmed public should protect itself from a corrupt government / domestic enemies?

That last dot point is an important one - hypothetically: if Hillary Clinton was successful in committing widespread electoral fraud and ending our Constitutional right to participate in free elections with the intention of raping our country into a Mugabe-style corruption-driven dictatorship, how would a disarmed population defend themselves against her and her police and military once she owned us like chattel?

DoestThouEvenLift ago

So tell me, if you believe that guns aren't a valid form of protection or self defense

I don't think it's a case of "belief". OP agreed that guns can be used for self-defence, but they just factually aren't a form of protection. Guns don't stop bullets, cars, planes or even flying squirrels from killing you.

What do you think is the most effective strategy to get gangs and crime syndicates to hand over their guns to the authorities?

Your question seems to be grounded in the circular reasoning that, since gangs probably won't want to give up their weapons, we should encourage gangs to buy weapons by legalising them. Imagine if we took the same attitude with murder? Gang members won't stop killing folks? Well, shit. Let's just legalise murder! Is that your plan?

There is of course a logical answer to your question, but I get the impression that you don't want to hear it. You simply slap large mandatory prison sentences on anybody found in possession of a gun. You give people five years for carrying a piece when they only get two for larceny and people will be throwing their guns at you.

How do you suppose a disarmed public should protect itself from a corrupt government

Again, your question is based on the false reasoning that guns protect you from a corrupt government right now. Haven't you spent the last six months spamming Voat with tales about Hillary's "corruption"? Well, what have your guns done to stop it?

Fuck all is the answer you are looking for, my good friend.

kneo24 ago

Guns don't stop bullets, cars, planes or even flying squirrels from killing you.

Well guns do stop some things. No form of protection is 100% fool proof. If we go by the logic that it's not fool proof, why use any protection anywhere? It's a slippery slope. You use the means you have at your disposal.

Your question seems to be grounded in the circular reasoning that, since gangs probably won't want to give up their weapons, we should encourage gangs to buy weapons by legalising them. Imagine if we took the same attitude with murder? Gang members won't stop killing folks? Well, shit. Let's just legalise murder! Is that your plan?

Can you show any statistics that gang members get their guns legally? Is that a statistic that even exists? It's my understanding that a lot of them own guns illegally, and a large part of that is they do illegal things with those guns.

guinness2 ago

Guns don't stop bullets, cars, planes or even flying squirrels from killing you.

Incorrect.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people... and dead people don't shoot at me.

Also, if you think a gun can't stop a squirrel then you're a retard.

Let's just legalise murder! IS that your plan?

That's a silly contradiction. What you really meant to say is: "Let's legalize self defense!", but we don't need to because it's already legal.

Again, your question is based on the false reasoning that guns protect you from a corrupt government right now.

Why wouldn't a government fear an armed population who is enraged by their corruption?

tribblepuncher ago

How do you suppose a disarmed public should protect itself from a corrupt government / domestic enemies?

You aren't. That's the point. The government, under this model, is the sole user of force, leading individuals to be protected by words and words alone, in a country where freedom of speech is slowly choked to death in a manner where it technically still exists but your life is systematically destroyed if you try to exercise it.

Of course, we all know that and this is a shill account mass-dumping upvoats, so we really shouldn't be surprised.

8Hz_WAN_IP ago

He got in first because it is the same guy posting under an alt. This thread did not get upvoted organically.

Gorillion ago

Yep, saw the upvoats and title and instantly called bullshit once I saw it wasn't some kind of trick post. It's a legitimate "Doi! Gun Nuts. Ammiright!?" posting.

piratse ago

This thread has an abnormal amount of total votes. VERY suspicious.

CRKT_M16Z ago

2 day old account posting an anti-gun discussion submission on a right leaning website with nearly 200 upvotes when most post barely get 100.....

Totally not suspicious. /s

GrandpaPepe ago

Yea in such a short time period...

8Hz_WAN_IP ago

This is not the first thread to have some manipulation in recent days.

piratse ago

Don't worry, the admins are on top of it /s They REALLY need to hire people and take the advice of myself and other business minded voaters (we mailed him and/or posted in the announcement thread).

Ashra ago

with thunderous applause... (the retard cucks anyways)