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argosciv ago

Thanks for presenting this.

Something which people have consistently overlooked here, is indeed the relationship between adrenochrome(+ derivatives), endorphins, elevated levels of in vivo heavy-metals & oxidative compounds/enzymes, DMT and pineal gland function.

It was never solely about adrenochrome, despite that for some reason, it is the only compound being focused on.

As an aside, per what I have tried to allude to without explicitly saying it:

Humans can indeed take control of the relevant factors/compounds/elements within their own body. Stimulating autonomous functions can produce and influx of adrenochrome along with DMT; one does NOT need external sources of adrenochrome/DMT('harvested' from other humans/plants or otherwise) in order to achieve the effects being sought by those who commit atrocities explored in pizzagate.

Mind over matter, so to speak.

Worth noting:

'Energy drinks' & coffee can be utilized to elevate in vivo heavy-metals levels and to stimulate the adrenal glands. Many activities such as singing and self-mutilation can induce endorphin release and again stimulate the adrenal glands. Put 2 and 2 together with a knowledge of other biological processes and you can induce the sought-after effects.

We are chemical engines; "the more you know..."


cc: @Factfinder2 @Vindicator

abattoirdaydream ago

Tobacco contains MAOIs? Does it remain intact after heating? MAOI Anti-depressants/anti-anxiety medicine are some of the most frequently prescribed.

Might explain the anti-smoking push and lies surrounding it. Tobacco wasn't Pfisers territory.

Sorry for the aside...

argosciv ago

Tobacco contains MAOIs?

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16177026 | https://archive.is/cyPhU]:

J Neurosci. 2005 Sep 21;25(38):8593-600.

Monoamine oxidase inhibition dramatically increases the motivation to self-administer nicotine in rats.

Guillem K1, Vouillac C, Azar MR, Parsons LH, Koob GF, Cador M, Stinus L.


Nicotine is the major neuroactive compound of tobacco, which has, by itself, weak reinforcing properties. It is known that levels of the enzymes monoamine oxidase A (MAO-A) and MAO-B are reduced in the platelets and brains of smokers and that substances, other than nicotine, present in tobacco smoke have MAO-inhibitory activities. Here, we report that inhibition of MAO dramatically and specifically increases the motivation to self-administer nicotine in rats. These effects were more prominent in rats selected for high responsiveness to novelty than in rats with low responsiveness to novelty. The results suggest that the inhibition of MAO activity by compounds present in tobacco smoke may combine with nicotine to produce the intense reinforcing properties of cigarette smoking that lead to addiction.

Will add link to initial comment. Thanks for prompting me to confirm <3

cc: @Vindicator @Factfinder2 @13uddha

Kekmet-Peperoni ago

THIS totally this. Ive been thinking something like this for years, i noticed that when i switched to tobacco from the tobacconist (sort of organic tobacco) i smoked Alot less, and didnt crave a cig in the morning straight away unlike cigarettes or store bought rolling, i had way fewer cravings, similar to how people smoke less when vaping and find it easier to cut down. Now that i vape its even better, but it seems to be the case for a lot of other people who are surprised at how little they vape compared to cigs. My hypothesis was they had extra nicotine they put in from the pesticide phase with neo-nicotinide. Centuries ago it was know that the nicotine plant was special why? because no bugs would go near it was a natural pesticide. I did a little digging years ago and there where reports of tobacco plant crops being regularly sprayed. So i just assumed that because tobacco plants didnt need any pesticide then Neo nicotinides seemed to be a good bet as to why this was, but MAOI seems to fit the symptoms alot better which could just reinforce my hypothesis (i dont know enough about chemistry though) but I find it interesting that MAOA's are used in pesticides too.

argosciv ago

My hypothesis was they had extra nicotine they put in from the pesticide phase with neo-nicotinide.

Here's what makes cigarettes and most big-brand puch tobacco more addictive:

It's the extra chemicals/compounds added to the end product. Basically, cigarettes trick the body into feeling more nourished, than say, raw/'organic' tobacco("chop chop").

Centuries ago it was know that the nicotine plant was special why? because no bugs would go near it was a natural pesticide.

It was mostly used(in 'ancient'/pre-historic times) in a 'religious' setting, ie, it was treated as as a 'sacred' plant due to its psychoactive properties(MAOIs and the effects thereof) and used in conjunction with psychedelics(DMT extracts).

(i dont know enough about chemistry though)

Ditto, I don't at all claim to be a professional in the field.

but I find it interesting that MAOA's are used in pesticides too.

Ditto again. It's fascinating, really, learning about this kind of stuff, even if the best resources available are the internet and self-exploration.

Kekmet-Peperoni ago

It was mostly used(in 'ancient'/pre-historic times) in a 'religious'(shamanic) setting, ie, it was treated as as a 'sacred' plant due to its psychoactive properties(MAOIs and the effects thereof) and used in conjunction with psychedelics(DMT extracts, 'magic mushrooms', etc).

oh yeah thats where ive heard of them before (MAOA), my ahem research into DMT, or specifically the mix called Changa.

argosciv ago

my ahem research into DMT, or specifically the mix called Changa.

/smirk

Trying to avoid doing the music thing, but, in commemoration of coming across a fellow researcher:

CAPTAIN HOOK & ASTRIX - BUNGEE JUMP (ZAOULI DANCE) ♮ L.S.D MUSIC ॐ

Kekmet-Peperoni ago

Ha, I bust a gut watching that without dmt! I recommend watching WebM's whilst researching. Although due to their random nature its imperative to have the one thing you love easily on hand to lift your spirits incase you run into something that feels bad or in this case looks absolutely demonic and unsettling like this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgzFDAvIhZg lol.

argosciv ago

Hahaha yeah always gotta be careful what you surround yourself with at the time.

I don't go too hard with it regardless, though.

Kekmet-Peperoni ago

yeah me too. everything in moderation. well not everything but you get what i mean.

abattoirdaydream ago

MAOIs boost the influence of some weak reinforcers huh? So...that's interesting, and they like to prescribe this a LOT huh?

This could explain certain newer "cultural" phenomenon. What if you become addicted to something inane. Can you get addicted to certain thought cycles?

argosciv ago

Whoops! Just saw your reply after I reposted comment, sorry!

Next question. If MAOI encourages self-medication as seen in those rats, regarding the weak reinforcer, nicotine, then what other weak reinforcers could MAOIs boost?

Not sure I understand the question...

The inhibition of MAOs(via nicotine and other harmala alkaloids) results in higher concentrations of some neurotransmitters(tryptamines), resulting in a desirable effect on the CNS(Central Nervous System), resulting in re-dosing.

Sorry if unsatisfactory answer, happy to answer again if I read the question wrong.

What would a population encouraged to engage in activities that provided minimal to moderate, but regular, positive chemical reinforcement look like?

Can have positive and negative effects, positive being the opportunity to relax, negative being addiction leading to undesirable results such as agitation in the absence of the addictive substances(eg: nicotine addiction).

Monopolization of MAOI-containing-products is also considerable here.

How chemically drained would they be?

In a case of addiction, very much so, but, dietary considerations can help to correct this. For example, one could make a strong habit of consuming foods containing L-tyrptophan(such as eggs, for example) in order to provide the building blocks for more serotonin.


MAOIs boost the influence of some weak reinforcers huh? So...that's interesting, and they like to prescribe this a LOT huh?

This could explain certain newer "cultural" phenomenon. What if you become addicted to something inane. Can you get addicted to certain thought cycles?

So, what an MAOI does, is to lessen or outright prevent the breakdown of tryptamine neurostransmitters, this can have a variety of effects on thought processes, most notably an 'anti-depressant' effect. This doesn't necessarily reinforce certain thoughts by itself, but, it can have an affect on your sensitivity to external factors which might be depressing.

In effect, this could be good or bad depending on one's personal circumstances, ie, the anti-depressant effect may help you to cope with some things but t may also prompt ignorance of problems that need addressing.

It's a double-edged sword, for one of a way to put it. It's important to understand the effects these substances have on you, so that you aren't just using them as an escape, so to speak.

To answer more directly, yes, you could become addicted to certain thought processes, but, this is again, a situation where "mind over matter" comes into play. Knowledge is the key here, rather than just taking something because it makes you 'feel good'.

abattoirdaydream ago

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer. It is very informative! :)

argosciv ago

Tobacco contains MAOIs?

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16177026 | https://archive.is/cyPhU]:

J Neurosci. 2005 Sep 21;25(38):8593-600.

Monoamine oxidase inhibition dramatically increases the motivation to self-administer nicotine in rats.

Guillem K1, Vouillac C, Azar MR, Parsons LH, Koob GF, Cador M, Stinus L.


Nicotine is the major neuroactive compound of tobacco, which has, by itself, weak reinforcing properties. It is known that levels of the enzymes monoamine oxidase A (MAO-A) and MAO-B are reduced in the platelets and brains of smokers and that substances, other than nicotine, present in tobacco smoke have MAO-inhibitory activities. Here, we report that inhibition of MAO dramatically and specifically increases the motivation to self-administer nicotine in rats. These effects were more prominent in rats selected for high responsiveness to novelty than in rats with low responsiveness to novelty. The results suggest that the inhibition of MAO activity by compounds present in tobacco smoke may combine with nicotine to produce the intense reinforcing properties of cigarette smoking that lead to addiction.

Will add link to initial comment. Thanks for prompting me to confirm <3

cc: @Vindicator @Factfinder2

abattoirdaydream ago

Thank You for the confirmation.

Next question. If MAOI encourages self-medication as seen in those rats, regarding the weak reinforcer, nicotine, then what other weak reinforcers could MAOIs boost?

What would a population encouraged to engage in activities that provided minimal to moderate, but regular, positive chemical reinforcement look like?

How chemically drained would they be?

argosciv ago

Tobacco contains MAOIs?

Last I checked, yes.

Does it remain intact after heating?

Good question, initial exposure to flame likely destroys, but, heat from embers would likely vaporize/release from plant matter.

MAOI Anti-depressants/anti-anxiety medicine are some of the most frequently prescribed.

Because MAOIs prevent breakdown of many tryptamines, including serotonin. For better or worse.

Might explain the anti-smoking push and lies surrounding it. Tobacco wasn't Pfisers territory.

Things that make you go "hmmm"

Sorry for the aside...

Don't be, I love this topic and prompts to think on or research it more :)