Pizzagate was amplified by Russian social media accounts from the very beginning. Proven Russian troll accounts were pushing the spirit cooking nonsense.
Whew... if Mueller knew or didn't know, it doesn't even matter. A key witness in the Trump/Russia investigation has a legal history and charges, 10 counts of pedophilia.
It's not really unusual for witness in a criminal investigation to have a legal history, especially if they become cooperating witnesses. We have several in this case.
George Poppadopolous plead guilty and is cooperating.
Gen Michael Flynn plead guilty and is cooperating.
Rick Gates plead guilty and is cooperating.
In the Sacramento Bee article you posted, you saw the description of how he became a witness for Mueller?
Nader was caught in Mueller's web a few days before the anniversary of Trump's inauguration. He was transiting through Dulles International Airport outside Washington, on his way to Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort, when his plans changed — abruptly and involuntarily.
Mueller's investigators stopped him, people familiar with the case said. His electronics were seized and he was then allowed to go see his lawyer. Nader later agreed to cooperate with Mueller's investigation, said the people with knowledge of the case as it pertains to Nader. They weren't authorized to speak publicly on the case and demanded anonymity.
This is a description of an arrest. This sounds very much like Nader was arrested in January and since then has taken a plea deal and will plead guilty to other crimes and that Mueller was keeping that under wraps, just like he did with Poppadopoluos. Why would he plea guilty? Probably because Mueller presented him with overwhelming evidence of his criminal actions. We don't know what these are yet, because this Nader story leaked before Mueller filed any court papers.
This is connected with Pizzagate in another way as well.
Nader helped organize, and attended, that curious Seychelles meeting on January 11, 2017, shortly before Trump’s inauguration. The meeting brought together Erik Prince, Trump donor and founder of the private security company Blackwater, with Kirill Dmitriev, who manages a Russian sovereign wealth fund and is thought to be close to Vladimir Putin.
If Nader is telling the truth, Erik Prince lied under oath to Congress. Erik Prince, of course, was one of disinformationists behind the hoax story about what the NYPD found on [ Anthony Wiener's laptop.]
(http://www.breitbart.com/radio/2016/11/04/erik-prince-nypd-ready-make-arrests-weiner-case/). This hoax is still believed by many pizzagaters today. The problem with this hoax is the laptop was never seized by the NYPD, the FBI were the ones who seized it because it was seized under a federal subpoena, not a local subpoena. Prince also claimed Wiener and Huma were cooperating for the government. Also part of this hoax is the truepundit website you link to. This story was also told on infowars, by Doug Hagmann of the Hagmann report. Hagmann slipped up and mentioned that Rudy Guiliani was his source. As soon as he mentioned Giuliani, Alex Jones changed topics immediately. They were apparently supposed to keep Giuliani's name out of it. At the time Erik Prince gave his fake story, it was not known that he was working behind the scenes for Trump. This is why Rudy Giuliani never got to be part of the Trump Administration and why he is keeping such a low profile, he started bragging about this before the Comey letter. He would have faced questions about what he knew about this.
Thanks! You're counterpoints are always thoughtful and well laid out. Appreciate the balanced views from both sides. Will keep all of that in mind re: future developments.
As to your point regarding the NYPD/Huma/Weiner laptop, that's always been a mystery to me. So many details/descriptions/reported "quotes" from the NYPD it did seem* real awhile back, but, none of those apparent promises made by the NYPD were ever kept in terms of leaking the material - so, it seems limited to hearsay and HTML based text. I gave up on that angle awhile ago.
As for this:
It's not really unusual for witness in a criminal investigation to have a legal history, especially if they become cooperating witnesses. We have several in this case.
Agreed... but you seem quick to discount the details of the crime itself. Given his relationships, past and the kind of information we're focused on looking into on Voat/PG - that intel seems very relevant.
Thanks! You're counterpoints are always thoughtful and well laid out.
Thanks.
As to your point regarding the NYPD/Huma/Weiner laptop, that's always been a mystery to me. So many details/descriptions/reported "quotes" from the NYPD it did seem* real awhile back, but, none of those apparent promises made by the NYPD were ever kept in terms of leaking the material - so, it seems limited to hearsay and HTML based text. I gave up on that angle awhile ago.
"it did seem real." I read once that one tip to determining if something is fake news is if the article excites/outrages you. That might mean it's written, not to lay out the facts, but to play to people's hopes/resentments. The article will then read as something you want to be true. The other reason this seemed real is Erik Prince, TruePundit were deliberately lying. I don't believe they even had any NYPD sources. The NYPD has never said anything on the record about this.
The NYPD Weiner laptop hoax seems to me to be deliberate political hoax from folks very close to the Trump campaign.
Agreed... but you seem quick to discount the details of the crime itself. Given his relationships, past and the kind of information we're focused on looking into on Voat/PG - that intel seems very relevant.
And the reason I didn't is because, I find it interesting that his crimes are being used to discredit "Mueller's witness" as opposed to say "Trump intermediary." Nader had his hand in a lot of political pies and was pretty bipartisan and not just bipartisan, but he seemed to be able to talk to both Israel and Arab countries and Sunni and Shiite countries. But he he was also close to this White House and that seems relevant for the current investigation. He has been a player since at least the 1980's.
His recent timeline
Back channel to Russia
December 2016, Gen Michael Flynn, Jared Kushner meet with the Russian ambassador in Trump Tower, where Kushner allegedly said he wanted to set up secret communications with Russia. Flynn will later plead guilty to lying to the FBI about this meeting.
Emiratis facilitate the secret communication
Also in December 2016, George Nader attends a secret meeting at Trump Tower with Kushner, Flynn and Bannnon and the Emirati crown prince, MBZ. The Emiratis did not tell the US that MBZ was going to be in America which is a violation of diplomatic customs. Later Susan Rice would try to find out why MBZ was in America and asked that the names of the Americans he met with be unmasked. Yes, this is the famous unmasking episode and Rice's request was legitimate.
MBZ "was reportedly approached by Prince to set up the Seychelles meeting with a Russian representative."
Seychelles Islands Jan 2017
There's a three way meeting in the middle of the Indian Ocean, with representatives of the US, the UAE and Russia, however, none of the men are actual government officials for plausible deniability
"Nader and Prince met in Seychelles in January of last year with Kirill Dmitriev, the chief executive of a sanctioned Russian investment fund who’s a close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin.He says he helped arrange the meeting between Erik Prince"
Nader Visits White House
After the inauguration Nader visits both Bannon and Flynn in the White House.
it's very pointed to a "back channel" in to Russia... but... still, for what? I mean, EVERYTHING points to Russia in the news? Right?
Yet, there has never been a specific accusation re: Russian interference in the election...
First it was them hacking the emails/leaks,
Then, it was hacking the election itself,
Next, the more vague "dirt on Hillary" (Fusion GPS) meeting,
Downgrades to mere "influence" via Pokemon Go, some double-sided Facebook ads and "fake news"
Downgrades even further to vague spies and a last ditch attempt to justify the dossier
Ignores FISA abuse, continues forth with vague nothing-nesses about general relationships w/ Russians and meetings, yet, no evidence of actual election tampering
So, again, what am I missing? What did all of these suspicious relationships turn into?
it's very pointed to a "back channel" in to Russia... but... still, for what? I mean, EVERYTHING points to Russia in the news? Right?
I don't know what you mean by very pointed. But you are acting like the news made this up. That Kushner and Flynn did not meet with Ambassador Sergey Kislyak. That US intel did not pick up Kislyak informing his superiors that Kushner asked to use Russian equipment for secure communication with Russia. That shortly after this meeting a meeting was set up in the Seychelles islands where Erik Prince met with emissaries of the Russian goverment on behalf of the Trump team.
Do you agree that this events happened and if so, they should be investigated to answer your question of why did they do this? You seem to want to dismiss this evidence.
Yet, there has never been a specific accusation re: Russian interference in the election...
This is of course, untrue. There are many specific accusations and some indictments, but you seem to be taking a very narrow view of what constitutes election interference and dismisses all the specific accusations you laid out.
I don't know why you connect the "dirt on Hillary" to Fusion GPS because we know all this outside of Fusion GPS
In April 2016, George Papadopoulos was told by a contact that Russia had dirt on HIllary Clinton in the form of thousands of emails. He went back and reported this to the campaign.
In June 2016, Don Jr was told by a family friend "The Crown prosecutor of Russia ...offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father."
Don Jr then sets up a meeting to get this dirt on Hillary Clinton. When this becomes public he lies about it for several days. We later learn the president was involved crafted those lies.
What are you missing? You're missing all the things right before your eyes because you choose to.
That shortly after this meeting a meeting was set up in the Seychelles islands where Erik Prince met with emissaries of the Russian goverment on behalf of the Trump team.
Do you agree that this events happened and if so, they should be investigated to answer your question of why did they do this? You seem to want to dismiss this evidence.
No, I'm not dismissing it. I'm questioning it based on other accounts of what happened. Prince never dismissed or argued this, he simply claimed he wasn't doing it on behalf of Trump's org. I mean, in a large volume of these instances of Russian communications - it seems to be ignored that Russia is a superpower, and that communicating w/ Russia is something that must happen. The mere communication of anyone w/ anyone from Russia is somehow an immediate sign of guilt?
Don Jr then sets up a meeting to get this dirt on Hillary Clinton. When this becomes public he lies about it for several days. We later learn the president was involved crafted those lies.
You mean the Veselnitskaya meeting? That entire thing has so many holes in it, it's crazy to put much faith into it. Paired with the fact that Don Jr released all of this own comms leading up to this meeting... and the involvement w/ Fusion GPS and how the Russian contacts even made it into the states via expedited VISA's that were apparently not supposed to be approved.
So, just to be clear, you are stating that the leaks re: DNC and Podesta were orchestrated by Russia? And that Trump's org had advanced knowledge of this and worked directly w/ Assange?
Let me ask you this final question: [Hypothetical] What happens to the entire Russian collusion narrative if it turns out to be that these emails were actually domestic leaks and were not hacked by Russia/hacking groups connected to Russia?
What are you missing? You're missing all the things right before your eyes because you choose to.
Not true, I am aware of everything above being reported/claimed... but I am also very aware of some claims/evidence/statements that seem to counter this "official" story. I'm not discounting anything, merely stating which side of this argument I am personally leaning towards believing. Knowing full well I could be wrong.
Prince's story doesn't make much sense. He travels to the Seychelle Islands to meet folks from the UAE? He doesn't meet them in Dubai? And guess what, Kirill Dmitriev just happens to be at the same resort? He also claimed Nader wasn't there. If Nader was there and Mueller has already had him testify to the grand jury, then Prince is lying. Prince claimed not be working on behalf of Trump, but his unqualified sister is now secretary of Education which looks very much like a quid pro quo.
it seems to be ignored that Russia is a superpower, and that communicating w/ Russia is something that must happen.
This just isn't true. It wasn't true for previous administrations and it's illegal to talk policy until after Jan 20th. When Kushner asks for Russian communication gear, that is not setting up a proper back channel which is often a legitimate diplomatic thing. Instead this is attempting to talk to a foreign power without the US government knowing about it. The Seychelles meeting appears to be the same. And of course, there was all the lying about these communcations, Flynn, Kushner, Sessions, and others all lied about these contacts afterwards.
That entire thing has so many holes in it, it's crazy to put much faith into it. Paired with the fact that Don Jr released all of this own comms leading up to this meeting..
He only released them after he got caught lying over and over over about this meeting. And just because he released them, does not mean, they won't be a prime piece of evidence against him. His lawyers already had to turn over any documentation to Mueller, so he knew they knew this as well. Veselnitskaya was the point person trying to get US sanctions on Russia removed, again, if that was discussed, that's illegal.
So, just to be clear, you are stating that the leaks re: DNC and Podesta were orchestrated by Russia? And that Trump's org had advanced knowledge of this and worked directly w/ Assange?
Russia was certainly behind the hacking of the DNC and the spearfishing of Podesta and many, many other lesser know cases. The DCCC was hacked. Several former generals were hacked alongside 130 Democratic Party workers beyond Podesta, Voter registration rolls were attacked in like 20 states, Right before the election, voting software supplier was hacked the same spear-phishing emails that got Podesta were sent to over 100 local election officials just days before the November 8 election. The RNC was also hacked, but nothing was leaked from that.
I don't think the Trump org had advanced knowledge of this before the hacking occurred. But once Papadopolous met with his source in London, he reported back to the campaign that the Russians had dirt on Hillary Clinton in the form of thousands of emails, they had knowledge the Russians had something. The Trump Tower meeting emails show us that the Goverment of Russia was providing "support for Mr. Trump" and that this support had been discussed previously with Don Jr.
The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.
This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin.
Do I think the Trump campaign worked with Wikileaks. I don't know how direct this was, but it's been shown that Assange communicated directly with Don Jr and that Roger Stone communicated with Assange through an intermediary, a radio host named Randy Credico. Assange was also shown to reach out to Fox News to offer damaging info on senators involved in this investigation. It's pretty clear that the Trump campaign thought that Russia might have Clinton's deleted personal emails as Trump called on them publically to release them. There was also an effort by a Republican operative to try to reach out to hackers to buy Clinton's emails. The operative claimed to be working with Flynn, Bannon and Conaway on this.
Let me ask you this final question: [Hypothetical] What happens to the entire Russian collusion narrative if it turns out to be that these emails were actually domestic leaks and were not hacked by Russia/hacking groups connected to Russia?
Your hypothetical almost amounts to, if what happened in 2016 was totally different, what happens to your story? The technical evidence is overwhelming, that APT 28 and 29 were involved in the DNC hack and then we got word that Dutch Intel was watching this live. They had previously helped US fight off cyber attacks on the State Department and the White House as they were happening.
And the DNC hack still seems to be way too narrow a frame. The Russian interference in the election goes way beyond the DNC emails. There was a broad based hacking/spearfishing campaign, there was the social media campaigns or support for Bernie Sanders or Jill Stein. The hacked info from the DCCC ended up in campaign commercials in multiple states.
The other piece to all this added up, is we still don't know everything Mueller knows. We just learned he had a witness from the Seychelles meeting. He didn't reveal that. He probably has much, much more. People are saying that they are going to try to flip as many witnesses as they can so that they can use witness testimony and not counter-intelligence signals collections. Many of these foreign nationals are under routine surveillance by us and by other countries. A lot of this evidence is still not public yet.
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Are_we_sure ago
Pizzagate was amplified by Russian social media accounts from the very beginning. Proven Russian troll accounts were pushing the spirit cooking nonsense.
It's not really unusual for witness in a criminal investigation to have a legal history, especially if they become cooperating witnesses. We have several in this case.
George Poppadopolous plead guilty and is cooperating.
Gen Michael Flynn plead guilty and is cooperating.
Rick Gates plead guilty and is cooperating.
In the Sacramento Bee article you posted, you saw the description of how he became a witness for Mueller?
This is a description of an arrest. This sounds very much like Nader was arrested in January and since then has taken a plea deal and will plead guilty to other crimes and that Mueller was keeping that under wraps, just like he did with Poppadopoluos. Why would he plea guilty? Probably because Mueller presented him with overwhelming evidence of his criminal actions. We don't know what these are yet, because this Nader story leaked before Mueller filed any court papers.
This is connected with Pizzagate in another way as well.
If Nader is telling the truth, Erik Prince lied under oath to Congress. Erik Prince, of course, was one of disinformationists behind the hoax story about what the NYPD found on [ Anthony Wiener's laptop.] (http://www.breitbart.com/radio/2016/11/04/erik-prince-nypd-ready-make-arrests-weiner-case/). This hoax is still believed by many pizzagaters today. The problem with this hoax is the laptop was never seized by the NYPD, the FBI were the ones who seized it because it was seized under a federal subpoena, not a local subpoena. Prince also claimed Wiener and Huma were cooperating for the government. Also part of this hoax is the truepundit website you link to. This story was also told on infowars, by Doug Hagmann of the Hagmann report. Hagmann slipped up and mentioned that Rudy Guiliani was his source. As soon as he mentioned Giuliani, Alex Jones changed topics immediately. They were apparently supposed to keep Giuliani's name out of it. At the time Erik Prince gave his fake story, it was not known that he was working behind the scenes for Trump. This is why Rudy Giuliani never got to be part of the Trump Administration and why he is keeping such a low profile, he started bragging about this before the Comey letter. He would have faced questions about what he knew about this.
SoSpricyHotDog ago
Thanks! You're counterpoints are always thoughtful and well laid out. Appreciate the balanced views from both sides. Will keep all of that in mind re: future developments.
As to your point regarding the NYPD/Huma/Weiner laptop, that's always been a mystery to me. So many details/descriptions/reported "quotes" from the NYPD it did seem* real awhile back, but, none of those apparent promises made by the NYPD were ever kept in terms of leaking the material - so, it seems limited to hearsay and HTML based text. I gave up on that angle awhile ago.
As for this:
Agreed... but you seem quick to discount the details of the crime itself. Given his relationships, past and the kind of information we're focused on looking into on Voat/PG - that intel seems very relevant.
Are_we_sure ago
Thanks.
"it did seem real." I read once that one tip to determining if something is fake news is if the article excites/outrages you. That might mean it's written, not to lay out the facts, but to play to people's hopes/resentments. The article will then read as something you want to be true. The other reason this seemed real is Erik Prince, TruePundit were deliberately lying. I don't believe they even had any NYPD sources. The NYPD has never said anything on the record about this.
I wrote a couple of posts of this a while back https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1747104 https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1812845
The NYPD Weiner laptop hoax seems to me to be deliberate political hoax from folks very close to the Trump campaign.
I didn't really say anything one way or the other about his crimes. There was another case where he was arrested but the charges dropped. in the US I believe. Yeah, here it is, https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/03/an-operative-with-trump-ties-was-once-indicted-on-an-obscenity-charge/555233/
And the reason I didn't is because, I find it interesting that his crimes are being used to discredit "Mueller's witness" as opposed to say "Trump intermediary." Nader had his hand in a lot of political pies and was pretty bipartisan and not just bipartisan, but he seemed to be able to talk to both Israel and Arab countries and Sunni and Shiite countries. But he he was also close to this White House and that seems relevant for the current investigation. He has been a player since at least the 1980's.
His recent timeline
Back channel to Russia
December 2016, Gen Michael Flynn, Jared Kushner meet with the Russian ambassador in Trump Tower, where Kushner allegedly said he wanted to set up secret communications with Russia. Flynn will later plead guilty to lying to the FBI about this meeting.
Emiratis facilitate the secret communication
Also in December 2016, George Nader attends a secret meeting at Trump Tower with Kushner, Flynn and Bannnon and the Emirati crown prince, MBZ. The Emiratis did not tell the US that MBZ was going to be in America which is a violation of diplomatic customs. Later Susan Rice would try to find out why MBZ was in America and asked that the names of the Americans he met with be unmasked. Yes, this is the famous unmasking episode and Rice's request was legitimate.
MBZ "was reportedly approached by Prince to set up the Seychelles meeting with a Russian representative."
Seychelles Islands Jan 2017
There's a three way meeting in the middle of the Indian Ocean, with representatives of the US, the UAE and Russia, however, none of the men are actual government officials for plausible deniability "Nader and Prince met in Seychelles in January of last year with Kirill Dmitriev, the chief executive of a sanctioned Russian investment fund who’s a close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin.He says he helped arrange the meeting between Erik Prince"
Nader Visits White House
After the inauguration Nader visits both Bannon and Flynn in the White House.
May 2017 MBZ visits White House
Meeting to Discuss Trump visiting Saudi Arabia http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/full/public/2018/01/26/0127georgenaderbannonmueller03.jpg
May 2017
https://bdk.bmcdn.dk/media/cache/resolve/image_1500x/image/83/834226/17322430-saudi-arabia-us-gcc-diplomacy.jpg
Fall 2017
"last fall he received a detailed report from a top Trump fund-raiser, Elliott Broidy, about a private meeting with the president in the Oval Office."
So the guy is involved with this White House and with the Emiratis. I don't think his child porn convictions are the reasons he's so connected.
Just found a third child sex case he was involved in. Notice this framing
http://www.newsweek.com/trump-nader-child-porn-charges-prison-mueller-849498
SoSpricyHotDog ago
it's very pointed to a "back channel" in to Russia... but... still, for what? I mean, EVERYTHING points to Russia in the news? Right?
Yet, there has never been a specific accusation re: Russian interference in the election...
First it was them hacking the emails/leaks, Then, it was hacking the election itself, Next, the more vague "dirt on Hillary" (Fusion GPS) meeting, Downgrades to mere "influence" via Pokemon Go, some double-sided Facebook ads and "fake news" Downgrades even further to vague spies and a last ditch attempt to justify the dossier Ignores FISA abuse, continues forth with vague nothing-nesses about general relationships w/ Russians and meetings, yet, no evidence of actual election tampering
So, again, what am I missing? What did all of these suspicious relationships turn into?
Are_we_sure ago
I don't know what you mean by very pointed. But you are acting like the news made this up. That Kushner and Flynn did not meet with Ambassador Sergey Kislyak. That US intel did not pick up Kislyak informing his superiors that Kushner asked to use Russian equipment for secure communication with Russia. That shortly after this meeting a meeting was set up in the Seychelles islands where Erik Prince met with emissaries of the Russian goverment on behalf of the Trump team.
Do you agree that this events happened and if so, they should be investigated to answer your question of why did they do this? You seem to want to dismiss this evidence.
This is of course, untrue. There are many specific accusations and some indictments, but you seem to be taking a very narrow view of what constitutes election interference and dismisses all the specific accusations you laid out.
I don't know why you connect the "dirt on Hillary" to Fusion GPS because we know all this outside of Fusion GPS
In April 2016, George Papadopoulos was told by a contact that Russia had dirt on HIllary Clinton in the form of thousands of emails. He went back and reported this to the campaign.
In June 2016, Don Jr was told by a family friend "The Crown prosecutor of Russia ...offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father."
Don Jr then sets up a meeting to get this dirt on Hillary Clinton. When this becomes public he lies about it for several days. We later learn the president was involved crafted those lies.
What are you missing? You're missing all the things right before your eyes because you choose to.
SoSpricyHotDog ago
Not quite...
No, I'm not dismissing it. I'm questioning it based on other accounts of what happened. Prince never dismissed or argued this, he simply claimed he wasn't doing it on behalf of Trump's org. I mean, in a large volume of these instances of Russian communications - it seems to be ignored that Russia is a superpower, and that communicating w/ Russia is something that must happen. The mere communication of anyone w/ anyone from Russia is somehow an immediate sign of guilt?
You mean the Veselnitskaya meeting? That entire thing has so many holes in it, it's crazy to put much faith into it. Paired with the fact that Don Jr released all of this own comms leading up to this meeting... and the involvement w/ Fusion GPS and how the Russian contacts even made it into the states via expedited VISA's that were apparently not supposed to be approved.
So, just to be clear, you are stating that the leaks re: DNC and Podesta were orchestrated by Russia? And that Trump's org had advanced knowledge of this and worked directly w/ Assange?
Let me ask you this final question: [Hypothetical] What happens to the entire Russian collusion narrative if it turns out to be that these emails were actually domestic leaks and were not hacked by Russia/hacking groups connected to Russia?
Not true, I am aware of everything above being reported/claimed... but I am also very aware of some claims/evidence/statements that seem to counter this "official" story. I'm not discounting anything, merely stating which side of this argument I am personally leaning towards believing. Knowing full well I could be wrong.
Are_we_sure ago
Prince's story doesn't make much sense. He travels to the Seychelle Islands to meet folks from the UAE? He doesn't meet them in Dubai? And guess what, Kirill Dmitriev just happens to be at the same resort? He also claimed Nader wasn't there. If Nader was there and Mueller has already had him testify to the grand jury, then Prince is lying. Prince claimed not be working on behalf of Trump, but his unqualified sister is now secretary of Education which looks very much like a quid pro quo.
This just isn't true. It wasn't true for previous administrations and it's illegal to talk policy until after Jan 20th. When Kushner asks for Russian communication gear, that is not setting up a proper back channel which is often a legitimate diplomatic thing. Instead this is attempting to talk to a foreign power without the US government knowing about it. The Seychelles meeting appears to be the same. And of course, there was all the lying about these communcations, Flynn, Kushner, Sessions, and others all lied about these contacts afterwards.
He only released them after he got caught lying over and over over about this meeting. And just because he released them, does not mean, they won't be a prime piece of evidence against him. His lawyers already had to turn over any documentation to Mueller, so he knew they knew this as well. Veselnitskaya was the point person trying to get US sanctions on Russia removed, again, if that was discussed, that's illegal.
Russia was certainly behind the hacking of the DNC and the spearfishing of Podesta and many, many other lesser know cases. The DCCC was hacked. Several former generals were hacked alongside 130 Democratic Party workers beyond Podesta, Voter registration rolls were attacked in like 20 states, Right before the election, voting software supplier was hacked the same spear-phishing emails that got Podesta were sent to over 100 local election officials just days before the November 8 election. The RNC was also hacked, but nothing was leaked from that.
I don't think the Trump org had advanced knowledge of this before the hacking occurred. But once Papadopolous met with his source in London, he reported back to the campaign that the Russians had dirt on Hillary Clinton in the form of thousands of emails, they had knowledge the Russians had something. The Trump Tower meeting emails show us that the Goverment of Russia was providing "support for Mr. Trump" and that this support had been discussed previously with Don Jr.
Do I think the Trump campaign worked with Wikileaks. I don't know how direct this was, but it's been shown that Assange communicated directly with Don Jr and that Roger Stone communicated with Assange through an intermediary, a radio host named Randy Credico. Assange was also shown to reach out to Fox News to offer damaging info on senators involved in this investigation. It's pretty clear that the Trump campaign thought that Russia might have Clinton's deleted personal emails as Trump called on them publically to release them. There was also an effort by a Republican operative to try to reach out to hackers to buy Clinton's emails. The operative claimed to be working with Flynn, Bannon and Conaway on this.
Your hypothetical almost amounts to, if what happened in 2016 was totally different, what happens to your story? The technical evidence is overwhelming, that APT 28 and 29 were involved in the DNC hack and then we got word that Dutch Intel was watching this live. They had previously helped US fight off cyber attacks on the State Department and the White House as they were happening.
And the DNC hack still seems to be way too narrow a frame. The Russian interference in the election goes way beyond the DNC emails. There was a broad based hacking/spearfishing campaign, there was the social media campaigns or support for Bernie Sanders or Jill Stein. The hacked info from the DCCC ended up in campaign commercials in multiple states.
The other piece to all this added up, is we still don't know everything Mueller knows. We just learned he had a witness from the Seychelles meeting. He didn't reveal that. He probably has much, much more. People are saying that they are going to try to flip as many witnesses as they can so that they can use witness testimony and not counter-intelligence signals collections. Many of these foreign nationals are under routine surveillance by us and by other countries. A lot of this evidence is still not public yet.