One piece of "evidence" that I've seen over and over again is the photo of JP with a fish and the number 14 painted on his hands.
I debunked that photo over a year ago and it has been used and re-used, bantered about and re-propped up and is still used today as proof of absolutely nothing at all.
(The debunking was in the form of a very obvious explanation: He was clearly Tweet-promoting the UN agenda related to saving the environment. All you need to do is read his Twitter for any length of time to see this is an issue he cares about.)
Goal #14 is simply: Conserve and sustainably use the oceans, seas and marine resources...(Hence the FISH symbol and the number 14! Doh!)
The 14 and the fish are 100% directly tied to that, even on the UN website: http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/oceans/
I didn't join PG to particiapte in a witch-hunt or to falsely accuse people of anything.
Though it appears there are huge mysteries surrounding many OTHER facts/ideas behind PG, the echo chamber of actual bullshit needs to truly stop.
The internet should be scrubbed of that iconic 14/fish / photo and the guy should be apologized to over it. The explanation I proffered came pretty easily, just by reading many of his older tweets. His connection to environmental matters is pretty hard to overlook.
If the guy actually turns out to be just a passionate "foodie", then many here look a bit ridiculous as well.
THIS all said, IF anyone is actually hurting kids -- I have no problem with anyone continuing to do what we can, to put a stop to it and bring justice about for these priceless souls, but if all we have is a collection of assumptive facts and a fairy-tale narrative, are we doing right?
Yes. The Instagram stuff is beyond disgusting, but that wasn't JP. Yes, the bands are sick, but what does that have to do with JP? Yes, the comments by SL are over the top, but that was at CPP, not by JP.
Yes, I find JA to be uncomfortably creepy, but that isn't JP. Yes, the artwork is over-the-top disgusting, but that is TP, not JP. Spirit cooking looks reprehensible and gross, but does this prove what it has been assumed to prove?
The photo of the teddy bear in the adult bedroom is bizarre, but bizarre does not make a case such as what is implied.
Yes, I find the debunking and censorship over-the-moon bizarre, and yes, it "feels" like something is amiss in all this -- somewhere, but can we justify tormenting anyone whatsoever without any actual proof of anything at all?
I am not excusing/minimizing or making excuses for anyone. I just know for a fact that PG has gotten it wrong with several so-called smoking gun facts and is very slow to retract them -- and I find that disturbing to be a part of.
What I'm saying is that we need to be sure that this thread is always about keeping it real.
Seeking truth and telling the truth are not always the same and knowing the difference is essential.
view the rest of the comments →
gaystapo ago
His finger was cut in the same place instructed for the spirit cooking ritual. That was the significance.
CantStopCrying ago
Fair enough.
But that is not what the 14 / Fish pic has been described to mean.
I don't find Spirit Cooking to be anything other than deeply disturbing and utterly gross, but whether or not the guy is into it, doesn't mean that people ought literally make up whatever fantasy they want about a picture that has a very clear intended meaning and ruin the guy's life over it:
http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/sustainable-development-goals/
Is he guilty of something? Maybe. Of everything? Maybe.
But, when an iconic piece of evidence like that is easily debunked, I think we ought to pump the brakes a bit.
His protesting and nervousness in the recent interview COULD be a sign of guilt. Could it ALSO be a sign, that the guy is tormented by what ALSO could be false?
How SHOULD the guy react if some of this IS false?
The Internet has ruined his life. If he deserves it, I'm not complaining.
If he does not deserve it, then I don't want that blood on my hands.
That iconic photo has been used to much that it has taken on a life of its' own when it just might simply mean this: http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/sustainable-development-goals/
Are_we__sure ago
i think you're realizing you may have taken part in a witch hunt.
The folks here are not trying to determine guilt or innocence. He was guilty in their eyes before the emails were release. Guilty of something....They are simply trying to find ways to convince you of guilt. You can see in this thread how immune people are to evidence, how easy it is to make up double meanings to that will make him look guilty.
The truth is there is absolutely no crimes connected at all to the Podesta emails.
CantStopCrying ago
Though I'm not at the point you are, I am concerned this might be so.
The unwillingness to contemplate dissenting evidence and the visceral attacks levied against someone who does, is a pretty scary thing.
I do believe that something IS amiss in all of this.
There Insta's and all the other stuff is extremely disturbing, I can't explain any of that.
But there are some facts that may NOT be as they are purported to be and that disturbs me, because some here aren't willing to double-check their thinking and resent efforts to get them to.
Are_we__sure ago
Let me ask you this. If this group were trafficking children, do you think they would actually post that stuff on instagram if they were in jeopardy of going to jail for the rest of their lives? If they actually killed children in a stainless steel room, do you think they would actually post it. And someone would actually identify as their killroom? And if some did do that, do you think they would leave it up? Remember according to Pizzagate folks, these people regularly kidnap, rape, kill and eat children. Do you think they would for no reason just post evidence of linking them to crimes that could put themselves away for life? Could put their friends away for life? Or do you think their might be an alternate explanation for their posts and their comments.
Has there ever in history a child trafficking ring that acted like this? Or are they trying to hide their tracks as much as possible? In any of the many people arrested has any of those cases resembled this?
If you have read my other posts, there are normal and regular cognitive glitches in the brain that help us to believe stuff that is false. It's not a smart/dumb thing, it's not a left/right thing. It's a human thing because it's how our brains our wired. Our brains love patterns, they love links and they love stories. I can give you three random facts and you could link them and make a story out of them with virtually no effort. But the question is, is the story we are telling ourselves actually true? Because it will feel really, really true. Critical thinking is NOT a natural event at all. You have to learn how to do it and you have to practice it. It seems to me that you have started down this road. You need to check yourself to see if your story could be true.
So much of the evidence of this case is based on mere linking. This is often a completely weak form of evidence. Let's say someone you went to high school with became a murderer? What does that say about you? Perhaps you never dealt with the guy. The link is meaningless. Or let's say you knew him well, you hung out together. Later on he commits a murder, are you guilty in some way? One method of checking yourself is putting yourself in situation, does it still feel convincing.
Confirmation bias is one of things that fool our brains and for the most part we are unaware when it's going on. You reach your conclusion and then every new fact you come across you interpret in a way that supports your conclusion. Read up about cognitive glitches and conspiracy thinking there's been a lot of study about this in recent years.
Another thing in the pizzagate case is that that they claim to have linked Alefantis and Clinton to a real life criminal, Laura Silsby. This was seen as something very significant. Both links are completely false. I completely debunked both of them. The Jeffrey Dahmer "fact" is also completely false.
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2122947
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/2122876
Also consider this, the one piece of code related to child pornography OR CP was Cheese Pizza, this was used on 4chan all the time. "Cheese Pizza" doesn't appear once in the Podesta emails. Pizza does. Do you not use the word pizza? I'm sure do, I just had two Sicilian slices for lunch.
CantStopCrying ago
This post is truly valuable and very much what I needed to take in today. Thank you very, very, very much.
We need better and better ways of assessing the clarity/cogency/accuracy of our thinking.
I've been villified for raising just one small question. That is really scary.
Thank you for your perspective.