I BET there are ZERO kids involved from conservative families. ALL are the spawn of "liberal" parasites (single moms, welfare, etc). Right? It's called CONSEQUENCES people. Liberal policies spawn all manner of horrific downstream consequences.
Conservative here. It's never that simple. It's about good and evil, not conservative/liberal. Also, you may be confusing liberalism with radical leftists. Some of the greatest minds in history have been liberal thinkers. Liberal is relative, as is conservative. You can be a conservative Muslim and think it is ok to slice off a girl's private parts, or a liberal Democrat that advocates for zero restrictions on abortion. But yes, we are definitely reaping what we've sown for the past forty or fifty (more?) years and the harvest is quite rotten. Someone did a study that basically linked all kinds of downward social trends to the year that the supreme court of the U.S. took the daily morning prayer out of public schools...Satan really scored a victory that year. He'll score another one when "In God We Trust" is removed from our money.
supreme court of the U.S. took the daily morning prayer out of public schools
I upvoated you for your sentiment but I don't think your comment above is anything more than just another symptom of the cause. The CAUSE is Communists/Cultural Marxists and the damaging blitzkrieg of Post Modernism. We have been losing the battle of ideas because we have failed to recall our own history and the values that represent the Enlightenment.
Jesus was arguably the most important Enlightenment thinker but the Roman Church buried his ideas and truths under a pile of Latin Prayers and Rituals. It took Martin Luther, the next most significant Enlightenment catalyst, to unearth the core and fundamental notions that underpin the Christian ethos. That was 5 centuries ago. And then, of course, you have the others who synthesize the political implications of the Message of Jesus and others, like Spinoza, who distill elements of this fundamental message. Thomas Paine and John Locke take the argument to the political leadership and voila!, the notions of democracy and Tolerance bulldoze the corrupt power structures that kept everyone subjugated for centuries.
But now we are in a vacuum of forgetting and the Critical Theorists have entered this space as though the younger generation were Tabula Rasa, free of all prior wisdom. And that is not wrong. The System of Education has been captured as have the MSM outlets. What is needed is for the irrefutable arguments of the past that created the Enlightenment to make a brand new debut. So far, there is little sign that this is happening except from a few speakers like Jordan Peterson, folks that rarely are allowed a platform.
I feel like it's splitting hairs either way. I could argue that the abolition of school prayer gave Satan the "in" he needed for said Marxism to gain a foothold, but I don't have a magical window into the realm of the spirit. I just think it's an awfully strong coincidence if the statistics are valid. I've always been taught that "the prayer of a righteous man availeth much" and "whatsoever ye ask in Christ's name", etc. In short, prayer is nothing to shrug at. I truly believe the gains being made today are a result of MANY prayers and without CONTINUED prayer, repentance, faith in God, what we are seeing is but a brief respite...
But the time sequence is wrong. The Marxists came in first and then the Prayer (and notions of patriotism and national pride) went out the window due to indoctrination in the schools and colleges. And don't forget the admonition of Christ to not pray on the Street Corner (eg Don't demonstrate you virtue to be seen as virtuous. Just be Virtuous!). Praying in a school seems like:
1) Praying on the street corner
2) An industrialization of prayer and
3) Public Schools are not Churches and public school Prayer led by the paid staff on school time is a violation of the separation of Church and State. Trust me. You DO NOT WANT the government to be endorsing a branch of Christianity or opening that door for any other religion. We can all pray or not pray in our own way. The Creator is not housed in a cube in Mecca and requires you to face him with geographical precision and pray at particular times and manner!
Hey, I hope your Thanksgiving is with a happy and healthy family and good cheer all around!
I never said God was housed in any cube in Mecca or required us to face it while we pray? Prayer in schools was still reverence to the authority of our creator, and one need not all believe in the exact same things about God to ask Him for the things we surely all want from Him. And think of the psychological effect of removing that daily reverence to something greater than ourselves. While I do see your point about government mandated anything, it went on in our schools for 200 years...and I would not in good conscience be able to argue that things have improved since that time. :) But you make some good points.
Thank you for the well wishes! I hope the same for you! 😊
Of course you didn't! You are not a benighted human being who subscribed to Islam and the lies of Mohammad. So, awesome person, you missed the point I was making. That is my bad. What I was trying to emphasize is that, unlike Islam, Christians can pray anywhere, at anytime, and yet expect their creator to hear their words. So "School Prayer" is no more sacrosanct to a Christian than is praying in private while making widgets at a factory. But for Muslims, they have created necessities and places and times as being sacrosanct and become enraged when their dogma is not catered to.
And think of the psychological effect of removing that daily reverence
It is a valid concern. I think you are correct I am a nonbeliever (I don't believe in magic of any kind) but I am also an ardent appreciator of Jesus Christ. And it is important to the survival of our culture to value and teach the core Judeo-Christian story and meaning to the youth. And we need to teach the scientific method and the skeptic mindset. From those starting points, the individual can assemble their world view grounded in Western Thought. Currently, neither of those foundations are taught and so education in the USA and the West has become "hallowed" out (excuse the pun).
Again, I hope your THANKSGIVING is super-duper! Ta'
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thebearfromstartrack ago
I BET there are ZERO kids involved from conservative families. ALL are the spawn of "liberal" parasites (single moms, welfare, etc). Right? It's called CONSEQUENCES people. Liberal policies spawn all manner of horrific downstream consequences.
eucalyptus_spearmint ago
Conservative here. It's never that simple. It's about good and evil, not conservative/liberal. Also, you may be confusing liberalism with radical leftists. Some of the greatest minds in history have been liberal thinkers. Liberal is relative, as is conservative. You can be a conservative Muslim and think it is ok to slice off a girl's private parts, or a liberal Democrat that advocates for zero restrictions on abortion. But yes, we are definitely reaping what we've sown for the past forty or fifty (more?) years and the harvest is quite rotten. Someone did a study that basically linked all kinds of downward social trends to the year that the supreme court of the U.S. took the daily morning prayer out of public schools...Satan really scored a victory that year. He'll score another one when "In God We Trust" is removed from our money.
novictim ago
I upvoated you for your sentiment but I don't think your comment above is anything more than just another symptom of the cause. The CAUSE is Communists/Cultural Marxists and the damaging blitzkrieg of Post Modernism. We have been losing the battle of ideas because we have failed to recall our own history and the values that represent the Enlightenment.
Jesus was arguably the most important Enlightenment thinker but the Roman Church buried his ideas and truths under a pile of Latin Prayers and Rituals. It took Martin Luther, the next most significant Enlightenment catalyst, to unearth the core and fundamental notions that underpin the Christian ethos. That was 5 centuries ago. And then, of course, you have the others who synthesize the political implications of the Message of Jesus and others, like Spinoza, who distill elements of this fundamental message. Thomas Paine and John Locke take the argument to the political leadership and voila!, the notions of democracy and Tolerance bulldoze the corrupt power structures that kept everyone subjugated for centuries.
But now we are in a vacuum of forgetting and the Critical Theorists have entered this space as though the younger generation were Tabula Rasa, free of all prior wisdom. And that is not wrong. The System of Education has been captured as have the MSM outlets. What is needed is for the irrefutable arguments of the past that created the Enlightenment to make a brand new debut. So far, there is little sign that this is happening except from a few speakers like Jordan Peterson, folks that rarely are allowed a platform.
eucalyptus_spearmint ago
I feel like it's splitting hairs either way. I could argue that the abolition of school prayer gave Satan the "in" he needed for said Marxism to gain a foothold, but I don't have a magical window into the realm of the spirit. I just think it's an awfully strong coincidence if the statistics are valid. I've always been taught that "the prayer of a righteous man availeth much" and "whatsoever ye ask in Christ's name", etc. In short, prayer is nothing to shrug at. I truly believe the gains being made today are a result of MANY prayers and without CONTINUED prayer, repentance, faith in God, what we are seeing is but a brief respite...
And yes, Jordan Peterson is pretty great! 👍
novictim ago
But the time sequence is wrong. The Marxists came in first and then the Prayer (and notions of patriotism and national pride) went out the window due to indoctrination in the schools and colleges. And don't forget the admonition of Christ to not pray on the Street Corner (eg Don't demonstrate you virtue to be seen as virtuous. Just be Virtuous!). Praying in a school seems like:
1) Praying on the street corner
2) An industrialization of prayer and
3) Public Schools are not Churches and public school Prayer led by the paid staff on school time is a violation of the separation of Church and State. Trust me. You DO NOT WANT the government to be endorsing a branch of Christianity or opening that door for any other religion. We can all pray or not pray in our own way. The Creator is not housed in a cube in Mecca and requires you to face him with geographical precision and pray at particular times and manner!
Hey, I hope your Thanksgiving is with a happy and healthy family and good cheer all around!
eucalyptus_spearmint ago
I never said God was housed in any cube in Mecca or required us to face it while we pray? Prayer in schools was still reverence to the authority of our creator, and one need not all believe in the exact same things about God to ask Him for the things we surely all want from Him. And think of the psychological effect of removing that daily reverence to something greater than ourselves. While I do see your point about government mandated anything, it went on in our schools for 200 years...and I would not in good conscience be able to argue that things have improved since that time. :) But you make some good points.
Thank you for the well wishes! I hope the same for you! 😊
novictim ago
Of course you didn't! You are not a benighted human being who subscribed to Islam and the lies of Mohammad. So, awesome person, you missed the point I was making. That is my bad. What I was trying to emphasize is that, unlike Islam, Christians can pray anywhere, at anytime, and yet expect their creator to hear their words. So "School Prayer" is no more sacrosanct to a Christian than is praying in private while making widgets at a factory. But for Muslims, they have created necessities and places and times as being sacrosanct and become enraged when their dogma is not catered to.
It is a valid concern. I think you are correct I am a nonbeliever (I don't believe in magic of any kind) but I am also an ardent appreciator of Jesus Christ. And it is important to the survival of our culture to value and teach the core Judeo-Christian story and meaning to the youth. And we need to teach the scientific method and the skeptic mindset. From those starting points, the individual can assemble their world view grounded in Western Thought. Currently, neither of those foundations are taught and so education in the USA and the West has become "hallowed" out (excuse the pun).
Again, I hope your THANKSGIVING is super-duper! Ta'
eucalyptus_spearmint ago
It is! I'm also super duper stuffed. Dessert will have to wait. 😵