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cthulian_axioms ago

I was trying to explain to folks a year ago that Bernie was forced to bend the knee in order to remain unframed for child molestation or possession of child pornography. I was called all sorts of nasty names and generally ignored; this despite the fact that CTR shills got Bernie-supporters' Facebook pages deleted by literally spamming them with CP. Where would they have gotten the material from? Why did no one get in trouble for it?

Then the whole Pizzagate thing broke shortly after Bernie bent the knee, which solidifies my point even more.

River_Otter ago

Same!

No one wants to hear this, even now.

The emails made it very clear that Bernie was being blackmailed. Some may argue that it had to deal with the loan deal under investigation now, but I highly doubt it, as he seems to be shrugging the whole thing off. It must be much, much worse, to make him bow out, as he had a better shot at the seat than Killary.

Votescam ago

Baloney --

There is no evidence that Bernie was being blackmailed.

There seems to be some evidence in "BRUISING" that Bernie was pushed around by people acting in the interests of Hillary and DNC.

And Hillary made sure that the DNC did not give Bernie the nomination -- that much is clear.

But your eagerness to try to hang something on Bernie is noted.

Are_we_sure ago

And Hillary made sure that the DNC did not give Bernie the nomination -- that much is clear.

What the fuck are you talking about? The voters did not give Bernie the nomination. Bernie lost.

Votescam ago

Bernie would obviously have won any election against Trump had the DNC given him the nomination.

Bernie in the end supported Hillary for the nomination ... bruises and all.

Are_we_sure ago

"had the DNC given him the nomination" There you go again.

It's not a beauty contest, there are rules on winning the nomination and Bernie lost and it wasn't very close. It only went on and on because the Democrats are not winner take all and California with the most delegates went in June. But it was pretty much over by Super Tuesday. Had the Democratic primaries been winner take all like in the Republican primaries, this would have been clearer early. These are simply the facts. Clinton got the nomination because the voters preferred her.

If the whole country voted at once like in the general election and she won by 12 points, no one would have said it was close. Of the 10 largest states, I think Bernie only won 1 or 2.

If it was a general election the electoral college would have been 404 to 134 or a bigger win than the last seven presidential elections.

She won. He Lost. It was not "given."

Votescam ago

Evidently you think we have honest elections ... ?

Sorry, but the Hillary camp were even using "white out " on ballots in San Francisco.

PLUS the hack-able voting computers we've been voting on for 50 years now which can be re-programmed from a distance -- actually now suggested that can be done via satellite.

And the polls more clearly showed that Bernie Sanders was the favorite. There was every kind of criminal manipulation of the voting by HRC camp -- even fake polling stations.

Again, the DNC recognized that the nation wanted Bernie Sanders, but they gave it to HRC nonetheless.

Had Bernie gotten the nation, it would have been an overwhelming response by the public ... which doesn't guarantee the outcome of the election will be in agreement with the actual votes cast by the public.

This_Ruined_Pizza ago

The voters, or the super delegates she paid for?

Are_we_sure ago

Of course the voters, she recieved almost 4 million more than he did.

16,914,722 13,206,428

cthulian_axioms ago

The voters did not give Bernie the nomination.

We cannot know what the electorate's decision actually was, because THE RESULT WAS FRAUDULENT. The vote was conducted using electronic voting machines which can be easily rigged. They tried to rig the general election too, but the overwhelming groundswell of support for El Donald was--some might say miraculously--able to overcome whatever rigging mechanism they put in place. Perhaps Kek undid some of it, too.

Are_we_sure ago

Yeah, they rigged the voting machines, they did it wrong.

Cool story, bro.

cthulian_axioms ago

The voting machines in question run closed-source software which is specifically exempted from the freedom-of-information laws.

Unless the code is made public, along with clear chains of custody for both the machines and the code, it is by no means a guarantee that the result obtained from said machines is legitimate.

To what parts of that argument do you object, and why? Be specific. "Nuh uh, bro" is not going to fucking cut it.

Are_we_sure ago

To what parts of that argument do you object, and why?

The part I object is you committing the fallacy of talking about something that might be possible and acting it was what happened.

And it's compounded ridiculous logic. So they massively hacked the voting machines, but forgot to do for the general election?

cthulian_axioms ago

talking about something that might be possible and acting it was what happened.

Well, then you shouldn't have a problem here, because that's not what I'm doing.

Let me break down the argument into five parts, and you show me the bits with which you disagree.

PART 1: It is the responsibility of a democratically-elected government to demonstrate, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that the result of its elections are legitimate. The burden of proof lies with the government, because the government is the only entity with that ability in the first place.

PART 2: Electronic voting machines are computers designed for a certain purpose, namely the counting of ballots with greater accuracy and speed than can be achieved by humans. Computers have no intelligence of their own; they run only the code that is entered into them. Computer code is of two types: machine code, which is the literal ones and zeroes flowing through the processing unit, and source code, which is human-readable. Source code is like a set of instructions that tell the machine what to do; it must be "compiled" into machine code that the computer can understand. Source code is of two types as well: open-source, which means that the source code is freely available for anyone to read, and closed-source, which is kept secret by the people who wrote it (or their employer).

PART 3: There are three major manufacturers of electronic voting machines: Diebold, Dominion, and ES&S. All three manufacture their machines under closed-source terms. This means that no one outside the company is allowed to look at the source code and verify that it in fact does what they claim it does: i.e., count ballots with greater accuracy and speed than can be achieved by humans.

PART 4: Because the several voting-machine manufacturers do not make their source code available for review, we cannot be certain that the machines supplied to various polling places are actually counting votes accurately, especially given that the machines are connected to the internet. The several State and local elections boards also do not make available clear, verifiable chains of custody for the machines.

PART 5: Given the foregoing, the present government cannot prove that the results of its elections are legitimate. I also cannot prove that the results are fraudulent, but I do not have the burden of proof. I should not have made a blanket statement to that effect, however. A more accurate--and logically-sound--statement would be to say that THE RESULT CANNOT BE PROVEN LEGITIMATE. It is absolutely possible that the result was fraudulent, and if the result cannot be proven legitimate, it cannot be disproven that it is fraudulent, either.

So they massively hacked the voting machines, but forgot to do for the general election?

If you dare to put words in my mouth again, I will shit in yours. Go run tell that to your cocksucker of a boss. You shills always make with the exaggerations of scale to discredit people. It's bullshit, and I don't much care for bullshit.

There was no massive hacking. A massive hack requires a lot of resources, a lot of collaboration or head-turning on the part of local officials, and carries a high risk of being discovered. But if you're trying to rig an election, you don't need massive in the first place. The electorate of the empire is pretty neatly divided, so the spread is not that big. In a race where the winner wins by ~5-6%, one needs to fake, flip, or erase only 2-3% to change the outcome. You just need to know where to concentrate the effort. In races where 50% turnout, this isn't actually a lot of votes.

Do you remember the VAN "hacking" scandal during the primary? Well, the North remembers. There exists, somewhere in cyberspace, a database called the "Voter Action Network" which contains voter-registration information gleaned from the public records of the fifty states of the empire. This database includes information on who donated to whom, because that information is also public record. The several campaigns have access to this database, but the donor information is supposed to be kept confidential. I believe they called it a "firewall". At any rate, right before the New York primary, this firewall was hacked. A low-level staffer of the Bernie campaign (who immediately quit) was alleged to have done the deed. But during the period that the security breach was ongoing (only a few hours, IIRC), both campaigns had access to each other's donor information. The Clinton family had the means, motive, and opportunity to steal that information. Based on the evidence, I conclude it is more likely than not that they did.

With that information--knowing where and who to target--the result of the primary election could easily have been altered with a combination of faking, flipping, and erasure of votes amounting to a relatively small portion of the electorate. How many thousands of people had their voter-registration information mysteriously lost? How many were turned away at polling places? In what proportion? Those are old-fashioned means of election-tampering which don't even have to resort to playing with the machines themselves. The Clinton family used every single trick up their sleeves, both legal and illegal, to guarantee a victory. We cannot know what the result would have been if it were honest, but they sure as shit can't prove it was legitimate, either.

As for the general election, they didn't forget to try, they tried and failed. They did not have accurate data; among other things, the polls were unreliable. No one would fucking admit an intention to vote for the Cheeto, and they guessed wrong on how many Berniecrats would flip. Further, because the electorate is so much larger for a Presidential election than the primary, it would have been a larger effort to accomplish it in the first place. Finally, Hillary Clinton is a witch-demon who drinks baby blood. Donald Trump is a demented television personality who is stuck in the locomotive of a runaway train, and he ain't driving. A frog-headed Egyptian chaos god accidentally summoned by the fucking Internet is driving. We are all passengers on the train. I am trying to get off the train, so that I can spread π“Ž‘π“Ž‘π“…±π“­'s wisdom elsewhere in the universe, and you have the temerity to mock me.

Cease your intention immediately, fall to your knees, and repent. π“Ž‘π“Ž‘π“…±π“­ is your God now, and π“Ž‘π“Ž‘π“…±π“­ commands it.

Verite1 ago

Wrong.