The Pope did not "call your research a sin". What he said was a comment about tabloid journalism, which is worse in South America and Italy than it is in the English speaking world.
No, the Pope's comment about shit eating was made in reference to fake news, and this term was used primarily to combat the growing awareness of information about pizzagate.
No, the quote isn't at all in reference to "Pizzagate":
QUESTION - A final question, Holy Father, regarding the media: a consideration regarding the means of communication…
POPE – The communications media have a very great responsibility. Nowadays they have in their hands the possibility and the capacity to form opinion: they can form a good or a bad opinion. The means of communication are the builders of a society. In and of themselves, they are made to build, to interchange, to fraternise, to make us think, to educate. In themselves they are positive. It is obvious that, given that we are all sinners, also the media can – we who use the media, I am using a means of communication here – become harmful. And the communications media have their temptations. They can be tempted by calumny, and therefore used to slander, to sully people, especially in the world of politics. They can be used as a means of defamation: every person has the right to a good reputation, but perhaps in their previous life, or ten years ago, they had a problem with justice, or a problem in their family life, and bringing this to light is serious and harmful; it can annul a person. In slander we tell a lie about a person; in defamation, we leak a document, as we say in Argentina, “Se hace un carpetazo” – and we uncover something that is true, but already in the past, and which has already been paid for with a jail sentence, with a fine, or whatever. There is no right to this. This is a sin and it is harmful. A thing that can do great damage to the information media is disinformation: that is, faced with any situation, saying only a part of the truth, and not the rest. This is disinformation. Because you, to the listener or the observer, give only half the truth, and therefore it is not possible to make a serious judgement. Disinformation is probably the greatest damage that the media can do, as opinion is guided in one direction, neglecting the other part of the truth. And then, I believe that the media should be very clear, very transparent, and not fall prey – without offence, please – to the sickness of coprophilia, which is always wanting to communicate scandal, to communicate ugly things, even though they may be true. And since people have a tendency towards the sickness of coprophagia, it can do great harm. Thus, I would say that there are these four temptations. But they are builders of opinion and can construct, and do immense good, immense.
Did you read the interview and quote in context? If you know anything about the media and the Papal office, you would know that it's probable that Pope Francis was referring to the media who constantly misquote him (many times purposefully, just like they donwith everyone). You also link to another Voat thread that is full of mis or disinformation. I'll list a few things wrong with it...
Number one: no original sources. Wikipedia, so-called "Rational Wiki" (AKA Wikipedia for atheists), and some dude's Wordpress page do not make for valid sourcing. Neither does a documentary by Saville's best buds at the BBC. Original sources with context, or GTFO.
Number two: The Office of Inquisition existed centuries before the Spanish Inquisition; it's primary purpose was to clarify the faith and to provide fair trials using literate priests instead of largely illiterate medieval courts. The Spanish Inquisition is a separate issue, because it was a matter of the Spanish crown using the clergy to crack down on a Muslim and Jewish insurgency.
I am well aware of the ecclesiastical history of the heretic Latin Church, invented in the tenth century at the behest of the Satin worshiping bankers who wanted to use it to destroy Christianity in the West and to launch endless war, beginning with the so called "crusades".
Sad for you that you defend institutionalized pedophilia.
I am well aware of the ecclesiastical history of the heretic Latin Church, invented in the tenth century at the behest of the Satin worshiping bankers who wanted to use it to destroy Christianity in the West and to launch endless war
Sorry you do not know the history of your own church. Do your own research, I am not here to spoon feed you. If you are unable to understand the significance of Crimen Solicitationis, then I doubt you have any awareness of how the Latin church came into being.
Seriously? You send me some dumbshit blog from 1998 talking about how bishops wearing "fishers of men" mitres are really Dagon priests, while proclaiming that slices of pizza are some form of paganism, and I'm the one who needs a history lesson?
Sorry, confusing this conversation with another similarly blind individual.
I still don't see a legit source for any of your previous points. No documents, no historians, nothing.
This just proves my theory that most of the talk about the Church is the same bullshit anti-Catholic rhetoric that other loonies spew. Like the other guy who claims that Catholic priests are really priests of Dagon. The same level of dumbshittery.
It is a reference to pizzagate because pizzagate was the biggest alternative media scandal at the time and the Catholic church's long involvement in covering up for paedophile priests.
"to the sickness of coprophilia, which is always wanting to communicate scandal, to communicate ugly things, even though they may be true" ~ Pope Francis
That's an incredibly myopic view. Pope Francis is dealing with priests in Asia rejecting their bishop, persecution of Christians in the Middle East, ongoing issues with the diocese of Malta, problems with the bishops in Germany, not to mention the issues in the Vatican proper... plus it's an Argentinian pope who lives in the Vatican doing an interview with a mainstream Belgian publication... and yet somehow you imagine that he's talking about an alternative media scandal in the US?
Context is everything. Calling people shit-eaters for telling the truth is unprecedented, just as pizzagate was unprecedented in making a connection between pizza, paedophilia, and power brokers, all of which are associated with the Pope/RCC. AFAIK the issues you mentioned were not topical to the time period in which the Pope made his statement.
The context of the quote is speaking about the media bringing up things for which restitution has already been paid, and also about presenting false information:
In slander we tell a lie about a person; in defamation, we leak a document, as we say in Argentina, “Se hace un carpetazo” – and we uncover something that is true, but already in the past, and which has already been paid for with a jail sentence, with a fine, or whatever. There is no right to this. This is a sin and it is harmful. A thing that can do great damage to the information media is disinformation: that is, faced with any situation, saying only a part of the truth, and not the rest. This is disinformation. Because you, to the listener or the observer, give only half the truth, and therefore it is not possible to make a serious judgement. Disinformation is probably the greatest damage that the media can do, as opinion is guided in one direction, neglecting the other part of the truth. And then, I believe that the media should be very clear, very transparent, and not fall prey – without offence, please – to the sickness of coprophilia, which is always wanting to communicate scandal, to communicate ugly things, even though they may be true.
Secondly, you're making an assumption that because he's in that position, that somehow he is aware of this particular scandal. I'm not Francis' biggest fan for other reasons, but he has brought attention to human trafficking multiple times. As bishop in Argentina during the dictatorships in the 60's and 70's, that subject is likely to hit home with him, as a number of his close friends were disappeared by the government to be tortured and killed.
Anti-Catholicism runs high on this site and on this board in particular, but few non-Catholics understand how fractured the Church is in its hierarchy. Vatican City is a cluster, which is run as "efficiently" as any Italian government; because of this, it's probable that Francis doesn't even know half of the things going on around him. Maybe he does, but to make the immediate assumption that Pope Francis is aware of all of the happenings in Vatican City is dubious at best.
The context of the quote is speaking about the media bringing up things for which restitution has already been paid, and also about presenting false information:
The fact that restitution has been paid doesn't mean that information relating to the crime is no longer relevant. If the crimes continue then than means that their cause still exists and and complete remedy has not yet been found. My argument doesn't relate to the Pope's criticism of presenting false information.
It's true that I don't know that Pope Francis was aware of pizzagate at the time. However, human trafficking is only one element of pizzagate, and suprisingly it is pizza itself which which provides the strongest connection the the underlying issue with the church. The classic pizza has a base which consists primarily or flour (used as a sin offering) and is cut into 8 segments the same as for the Christian ichthys symbol.
Lastly, the site uses a very Protestant approach to Scripture in that it breaks down passage by passage and word by word. Traditional Catholic and Orthodox interpretations use sacred tradition in addition to the written words of Scripture. Sacred tradition generally doesn't change, so any "new" interpretations of Scripture must be held against the authority of that ancient tradition. Unless you have a site that also uses the writings of the early Church Fathers as well as the authority of the Magesterium, I'm not inclined to believe it.
Your article relies on the fallacy that significance is dependent upon historical continuity, and it has no explanation for the fish embroidered into the mitre. There's no basis in hermeneutics for "sacred tradition", and the traditions of the fathers are criticized in scripture. What you choose to believe isn't important, what matters is what a reasonable man would believe.
Either way, most of the complaints on this sub about pedophilia in the hierarchy of the Church are little more than anti-Catholic screed with little or no actual proof.
I'll settle for any actual proof that either recent pope is a pedophile. And no, some dude's blog or a single accuser outside of a court of law do not count.
Setting an unreasonably high standard of proof is just another way of avoiding the facts, which in this case the connection between the sign of Jonah and pizza. Loaves and fishes, anyone?
Wait, are you saying that a culture who exists around a lot of water, and whose diet primarily consists of fish, wheat, olives, and wine might have stories where those things are present?
Do you honestly believe this horse shit that bishops who are wearing "fishers of men" miters are, instead, actually celebrating some Canaanite deity and that all of the words coming out of their mouths about the God of Abraham and the Word Incarnate is really some sly reference to said Canaanite god? Really? I mean, the written history of the Church isn't exactly obscure. There are original documents going back to the 1st century that the Vatican has digitized, and if you don't believe that, then find a university that's going to the Archives for research and ask to go along and look for yourself.
Unless, of course, all of that documentation is in fact faked and there's really some other cult related activity going on that no one knows about except for the dude who wrote that blog and other people who buy into that Prottie/New Age bullshit. You know that all of that "secret knowledge" nonsense is just a bunch of Gnostic shit that was condemned centuries ago, right?
What I'm saying is that names and symbols are important - you can keep your horse shit. If you want do know whar the Vatican is really worshipping then find the proper name in the last verse of the exulstet.
"Therefore, O Lord, we pray you that this candle, hallowed to the honour of your name, may persevere undimmed"
"Flammas eius lúcifer matutínus invéniat: ille, inquam, lúcifer, qui nescit occásum."
No, because using a proper name identifies a deity, while using a title doesn't necessarily do so.
It’s ridiculous enough to believe that the pope and the College of Cardinals are all secretly Satanists.
But not quite as ridiculous as the idea that a just and compassionate deity would make a plan that involved torturing his innocent son to death. "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. "
These six things doth YHWH hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood ... (Proverbs 6:17)
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MillstoneNecklace ago
The Pope did not "call your research a sin". What he said was a comment about tabloid journalism, which is worse in South America and Italy than it is in the English speaking world.
UglyTruth ago
No, the Pope's comment about shit eating was made in reference to fake news, and this term was used primarily to combat the growing awareness of information about pizzagate.
MillstoneNecklace ago
No, the quote isn't at all in reference to "Pizzagate":
QUESTION - A final question, Holy Father, regarding the media: a consideration regarding the means of communication…
POPE – The communications media have a very great responsibility. Nowadays they have in their hands the possibility and the capacity to form opinion: they can form a good or a bad opinion. The means of communication are the builders of a society. In and of themselves, they are made to build, to interchange, to fraternise, to make us think, to educate. In themselves they are positive. It is obvious that, given that we are all sinners, also the media can – we who use the media, I am using a means of communication here – become harmful. And the communications media have their temptations. They can be tempted by calumny, and therefore used to slander, to sully people, especially in the world of politics. They can be used as a means of defamation: every person has the right to a good reputation, but perhaps in their previous life, or ten years ago, they had a problem with justice, or a problem in their family life, and bringing this to light is serious and harmful; it can annul a person. In slander we tell a lie about a person; in defamation, we leak a document, as we say in Argentina, “Se hace un carpetazo” – and we uncover something that is true, but already in the past, and which has already been paid for with a jail sentence, with a fine, or whatever. There is no right to this. This is a sin and it is harmful. A thing that can do great damage to the information media is disinformation: that is, faced with any situation, saying only a part of the truth, and not the rest. This is disinformation. Because you, to the listener or the observer, give only half the truth, and therefore it is not possible to make a serious judgement. Disinformation is probably the greatest damage that the media can do, as opinion is guided in one direction, neglecting the other part of the truth. And then, I believe that the media should be very clear, very transparent, and not fall prey – without offence, please – to the sickness of coprophilia, which is always wanting to communicate scandal, to communicate ugly things, even though they may be true. And since people have a tendency towards the sickness of coprophagia, it can do great harm. Thus, I would say that there are these four temptations. But they are builders of opinion and can construct, and do immense good, immense.
http://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2016/12/07/161207a.html
Laskar ago
Pope Francis calls Pizzagate researchers "shit eaters": https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1836101
The RC church has been silencing victims and protecting pedos for years--by their own internal canons.
Wake up!
MillstoneNecklace ago
Did you read the interview and quote in context? If you know anything about the media and the Papal office, you would know that it's probable that Pope Francis was referring to the media who constantly misquote him (many times purposefully, just like they donwith everyone). You also link to another Voat thread that is full of mis or disinformation. I'll list a few things wrong with it...
Number one: no original sources. Wikipedia, so-called "Rational Wiki" (AKA Wikipedia for atheists), and some dude's Wordpress page do not make for valid sourcing. Neither does a documentary by Saville's best buds at the BBC. Original sources with context, or GTFO.
Number two: The Office of Inquisition existed centuries before the Spanish Inquisition; it's primary purpose was to clarify the faith and to provide fair trials using literate priests instead of largely illiterate medieval courts. The Spanish Inquisition is a separate issue, because it was a matter of the Spanish crown using the clergy to crack down on a Muslim and Jewish insurgency.
Number three: http://nationalcatholicreporter.org/update/bn080703.htm
Laskar ago
I am well aware of the ecclesiastical history of the heretic Latin Church, invented in the tenth century at the behest of the Satin worshiping bankers who wanted to use it to destroy Christianity in the West and to launch endless war, beginning with the so called "crusades".
Sad for you that you defend institutionalized pedophilia.
MillstoneNecklace ago
Yeeeeeah... gonna need a source on that one, too.
Laskar ago
Sorry you do not know the history of your own church. Do your own research, I am not here to spoon feed you. If you are unable to understand the significance of Crimen Solicitationis, then I doubt you have any awareness of how the Latin church came into being.
I'm on this forum to discuss pizzagate.
MillstoneNecklace ago
Seriously? You send me some dumbshit blog from 1998 talking about how bishops wearing "fishers of men" mitres are really Dagon priests, while proclaiming that slices of pizza are some form of paganism, and I'm the one who needs a history lesson?
Laskar ago
I never sent any such thing to you.
MillstoneNecklace ago
Sorry, confusing this conversation with another similarly blind individual.
I still don't see a legit source for any of your previous points. No documents, no historians, nothing.
This just proves my theory that most of the talk about the Church is the same bullshit anti-Catholic rhetoric that other loonies spew. Like the other guy who claims that Catholic priests are really priests of Dagon. The same level of dumbshittery.
UglyTruth ago
It is a reference to pizzagate because pizzagate was the biggest alternative media scandal at the time and the Catholic church's long involvement in covering up for paedophile priests.
"to the sickness of coprophilia, which is always wanting to communicate scandal, to communicate ugly things, even though they may be true" ~ Pope Francis
MillstoneNecklace ago
That's an incredibly myopic view. Pope Francis is dealing with priests in Asia rejecting their bishop, persecution of Christians in the Middle East, ongoing issues with the diocese of Malta, problems with the bishops in Germany, not to mention the issues in the Vatican proper... plus it's an Argentinian pope who lives in the Vatican doing an interview with a mainstream Belgian publication... and yet somehow you imagine that he's talking about an alternative media scandal in the US?
UglyTruth ago
Context is everything. Calling people shit-eaters for telling the truth is unprecedented, just as pizzagate was unprecedented in making a connection between pizza, paedophilia, and power brokers, all of which are associated with the Pope/RCC. AFAIK the issues you mentioned were not topical to the time period in which the Pope made his statement.
MillstoneNecklace ago
The context of the quote is speaking about the media bringing up things for which restitution has already been paid, and also about presenting false information:
Secondly, you're making an assumption that because he's in that position, that somehow he is aware of this particular scandal. I'm not Francis' biggest fan for other reasons, but he has brought attention to human trafficking multiple times. As bishop in Argentina during the dictatorships in the 60's and 70's, that subject is likely to hit home with him, as a number of his close friends were disappeared by the government to be tortured and killed.
Anti-Catholicism runs high on this site and on this board in particular, but few non-Catholics understand how fractured the Church is in its hierarchy. Vatican City is a cluster, which is run as "efficiently" as any Italian government; because of this, it's probable that Francis doesn't even know half of the things going on around him. Maybe he does, but to make the immediate assumption that Pope Francis is aware of all of the happenings in Vatican City is dubious at best.
UglyTruth ago
The fact that restitution has been paid doesn't mean that information relating to the crime is no longer relevant. If the crimes continue then than means that their cause still exists and and complete remedy has not yet been found. My argument doesn't relate to the Pope's criticism of presenting false information.
It's true that I don't know that Pope Francis was aware of pizzagate at the time. However, human trafficking is only one element of pizzagate, and suprisingly it is pizza itself which which provides the strongest connection the the underlying issue with the church. The classic pizza has a base which consists primarily or flour (used as a sin offering) and is cut into 8 segments the same as for the Christian ichthys symbol.
More info here: http://actsinjunction.info/pages/jonah.html
MillstoneNecklace ago
A couple of things with that site. First: who uses that shade of green as a background? My eyes may be bleeding.
Second, read this.
Lastly, the site uses a very Protestant approach to Scripture in that it breaks down passage by passage and word by word. Traditional Catholic and Orthodox interpretations use sacred tradition in addition to the written words of Scripture. Sacred tradition generally doesn't change, so any "new" interpretations of Scripture must be held against the authority of that ancient tradition. Unless you have a site that also uses the writings of the early Church Fathers as well as the authority of the Magesterium, I'm not inclined to believe it.
UglyTruth ago
Your article relies on the fallacy that significance is dependent upon historical continuity, and it has no explanation for the fish embroidered into the mitre. There's no basis in hermeneutics for "sacred tradition", and the traditions of the fathers are criticized in scripture. What you choose to believe isn't important, what matters is what a reasonable man would believe.
MillstoneNecklace ago
Either way, most of the complaints on this sub about pedophilia in the hierarchy of the Church are little more than anti-Catholic screed with little or no actual proof.
UglyTruth ago
No proof is sufficient against the blindness of misplaced faith.
MillstoneNecklace ago
I'll settle for any actual proof that either recent pope is a pedophile. And no, some dude's blog or a single accuser outside of a court of law do not count.
UglyTruth ago
Setting an unreasonably high standard of proof is just another way of avoiding the facts, which in this case the connection between the sign of Jonah and pizza. Loaves and fishes, anyone?
MillstoneNecklace ago
Wait, are you saying that a culture who exists around a lot of water, and whose diet primarily consists of fish, wheat, olives, and wine might have stories where those things are present?
Do you honestly believe this horse shit that bishops who are wearing "fishers of men" miters are, instead, actually celebrating some Canaanite deity and that all of the words coming out of their mouths about the God of Abraham and the Word Incarnate is really some sly reference to said Canaanite god? Really? I mean, the written history of the Church isn't exactly obscure. There are original documents going back to the 1st century that the Vatican has digitized, and if you don't believe that, then find a university that's going to the Archives for research and ask to go along and look for yourself.
Unless, of course, all of that documentation is in fact faked and there's really some other cult related activity going on that no one knows about except for the dude who wrote that blog and other people who buy into that Prottie/New Age bullshit. You know that all of that "secret knowledge" nonsense is just a bunch of Gnostic shit that was condemned centuries ago, right?
UglyTruth ago
What I'm saying is that names and symbols are important - you can keep your horse shit. If you want do know whar the Vatican is really worshipping then find the proper name in the last verse of the exulstet.
"Therefore, O Lord, we pray you that this candle, hallowed to the honour of your name, may persevere undimmed"
"Flammas eius lúcifer matutínus invéniat: ille, inquam, lúcifer, qui nescit occásum."
MillstoneNecklace ago
Because no one has ever brought that up before. Oh wait...
http://shamelesspopery.com/lucifer/
UglyTruth ago
No, because using a proper name identifies a deity, while using a title doesn't necessarily do so.
But not quite as ridiculous as the idea that a just and compassionate deity would make a plan that involved torturing his innocent son to death. "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. "
These six things doth YHWH hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood ... (Proverbs 6:17)