Lurker from original pizzagate on Reddit...
Coming from a lawyer... I want to help focus this sub on building a case. If not interested, then i guess the post will just die out. I will ask questions and play devils advocate to help form a case (just like real prosecutors).
To make this on-topic, it seems as if the seth rich killing could blow pizzagate wide open, if proven true. That being said, here are my thoughts...
As of right now, everything is based in the court of public opinion. For that, the standard of proof (by how much someone would need to prove something ie beyond 50/50 vs beyond a shadow of a doubt) seems extremely high because at first glance, the DNC involvement in a murder seems unlikely and unreasonable to most people because they don't WANT to believe it.
Moving it over to the criminal prosecution world, the standard is much lower to begin. In order for police to obtain warrants and make arrests, you need to show Probable Cause. Probable cause is a "fair probability." It doesn't even have to be better than 50/50. Probable Cause can be based on hearsay but must be reliable evidence. An anonymous source CAN be used, but only if reliable. For example, an anon source says Steve did it, with no other information, then that is not reliable. However if anon source says Steve did it and included facts that are verifiable and not of public knowledge yet, then that would be reliable.
so let's start...
Is it a fair probability that Podesta was involved?
If so, what makes it a fair probability?
Is it a fair probability that Dr. Sava was involved?
If so, what makes it a fair probability?
If you can establish probable cause and then show the DC police are not acting, that's a whole different potential crime and more evidence of the ultimate truth. If there is a cover up by DC police, you might want to find out if it was normal for each officer that reported to the scene to be there and if there are any complaints against any of them and if that was their beat. Also, what is their protocol (from their actual training, not what you suspect it to be) and did they follow it?
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Blacksmith21 ago
Point 1: I agree with another poster - this should be MPD jurisdiction. There was no crime on any Federal property. Hell, they have 300 of those per year on the other side of the river. Unless the Federal government could present reason to take over a "botched robbery", this is all MPD. I've confirmed this with contacts in MPD.
Point 2: Everyone keeps chanting this mantra of "Seth Rich" being the string to unravel the sweater - whatever it is now pizza, pedo, NWOgate...
The fact is, this really is the Achilles (pun intended) heel of the case. We need another map showing the relations between Rich, his family, Bauman, Brock, Alefantis, and by default Podesta. Hell Podesta is tied in through the hospital.
This is another fresh opportunity to capitalize on. And this one is much harder to refute - "Young Midwestern DNC Staffer Seth Rich Killed by Family Connections". - There is enough evidence, in the form of named sources and printed sources to close the loop now with a little more digging.
Unfortunately, I do not have the resources. If someone can put together a "meme", I prefer infographic, that may make the connection for a lot of people.
Point 3: The mock/moot court exercise is very important. If people stay on topic and use the basics of Roberts Rules of Order, this "exercise" can serve as the basis of opening up a real case. Just as finding evidence of a crime on Facebook or any other social media, if we are able to prove by "legal" and solid evidence (-iary?) practices, what gets laid out here can be used as the basis to open an inquiry, grand jury, etc. [I may bot be spot on in my legal terminology but I hope everyone gets the concept] ** If done right, what we do in this moot court can serve as evidence to be used in the opening of an official investigation. ** [If I am wrong, please correct me and tell me why]
Point 4: There may be some merit in figuring out how to loop all of this shit and land it back in JA's lap. He's so fucking happy to be out of the news these days he had the balls to write the POS op-ed a couple weeks back. Let's figure out a way to leverage this so the light shines back on his reptile ass again.
Point 5: Want a force multiplier? Take 10-20 dedicated people in the DMV willing to distribute a WHO KILLED SETH RICH (w/ the map on the back) 4"x6" card all over the area. Locals know where they need to be dropped. Put out 10,000 cards over the next month around Capitol Hill, K St, Kalorama, JA's hood....someone will crack. Guarantee in this environment, it will make someone kirk out and do something that helps break the case open further.
Point 6: They killed Roger Ailes, spooked Hannity, and countless others. They are pulling out all the stops on this one. They need to be fought with what they can't defend against - guerilla marketing/PR warfare. This cannot all be done online. They will beat us at every turn. Get those flyers, cards, postcards, handbills, whatever....raise awareness. People will believe something in print more than online more anyhow these days...
lawyer4justice ago
This is important because if someone can put together a document that creates probable cause, then MPD will have to respond (not legally, but in the court of public opinion). If they don't respond, or they respond but find no probable cause, then you keep piling on evidence or gathering legal scholars who agree that it is PC to show that MPD have an ulterior motive. then you go up the chain of oversight. Doing this also brings attention to the ultimate issue.
privatepizza ago
If you feel there is enough 'probable cause' information from the posts here (and hopefully more will arrive), if you were to advise us on what you think best points to include, and the format etc, I'm sure some of us would manage to put the filing document together. ie whatever help you need we could provide it.
lawyer4justice ago
There is no filing document per se on our part. However, if we put something together that cannot be ignored, then they will.either react to it, or ignore it which would look suspicious and possibly create criminal or civil liability in their part. Remember, the russian "special counsel" only got appointed because of the (fake) uproar from the left.