Building a case... (pizzagate)

submitted ago by lawyer4justice

Lurker from original pizzagate on Reddit...

Coming from a lawyer... I want to help focus this sub on building a case. If not interested, then i guess the post will just die out. I will ask questions and play devils advocate to help form a case (just like real prosecutors).

To make this on-topic, it seems as if the seth rich killing could blow pizzagate wide open, if proven true. That being said, here are my thoughts... As of right now, everything is based in the court of public opinion. For that, the standard of proof (by how much someone would need to prove something ie beyond 50/50 vs beyond a shadow of a doubt) seems extremely high because at first glance, the DNC involvement in a murder seems unlikely and unreasonable to most people because they don't WANT to believe it.

Moving it over to the criminal prosecution world, the standard is much lower to begin. In order for police to obtain warrants and make arrests, you need to show Probable Cause. Probable cause is a "fair probability." It doesn't even have to be better than 50/50. Probable Cause can be based on hearsay but must be reliable evidence. An anonymous source CAN be used, but only if reliable. For example, an anon source says Steve did it, with no other information, then that is not reliable. However if anon source says Steve did it and included facts that are verifiable and not of public knowledge yet, then that would be reliable.

so let's start... Is it a fair probability that Podesta was involved? If so, what makes it a fair probability? Is it a fair probability that Dr. Sava was involved? If so, what makes it a fair probability?

If you can establish probable cause and then show the DC police are not acting, that's a whole different potential crime and more evidence of the ultimate truth. If there is a cover up by DC police, you might want to find out if it was normal for each officer that reported to the scene to be there and if there are any complaints against any of them and if that was their beat. Also, what is their protocol (from their actual training, not what you suspect it to be) and did they follow it?

You are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

lawyer4justice ago

Let's assume Seth is the leaker (there's enough for PC). This only provides motive. What is an articulable fact that places Podesta/DNC ordering a hit? Multiple people probably had motive to hate Seth. What is specific to JP or Dr.?

Are_we__sure ago

I think you're way, way off in your legal analysis. Are you a criminal lawyer? What relevant experience do you have? You do not have probable cause if you assume Seth is the leaker. You barely have motive.

Probable cause is enough evidence of a specific crime to justify an arrest, or a search warrant. Search warrants need to be specific as to what you are looking for.

Let's say that Seth being the leaker fully establishes motive (which it doesn't), how.does.that get you probable cause?

Let's say I have motive to kill my wife because I'll inherit her money. She's stabbed to death on the street while I'm out of town on business. You can't get get a warrant to arrest me or search my house just based on that. You haven't even begun to show I'm involved with her death.

lawyer4justice ago

Wow, thank you for proving my point! Motive alone is not enough! Must be something more! However, what is important to realize is that we are only talking about PC which relates to (as you astutely copied and pasted from Wikipedia) only arrests and searches. Probable cause is SO much more than what officers have before they start investigating. Officers investigate in order to GET probable cause. It's a little interesting IF they don't even have persons of interest that they are talking to.

Are_we__sure ago

I'm specifically referring to this.

Let's assume Seth is the leaker (there's enough for PC).

I might have misread your meaning though.....what do you mean there's enough for probable cause.

lawyer4justice ago

On second read, my typing was very vague and actually incorrect. I meant that there is PC that he leaked, but leaking isn't per se a crime, so PC wasn't correct, haha. Sorry.

Are_we__sure ago

Happens to me all the time too. Type to fast...leave out words etc.

However, now I must take exception to your claim. You are saying there is probable cause that Seth Rich leaked? Because there is no where near probable cause.