Building a case... (pizzagate)

submitted ago by lawyer4justice

Lurker from original pizzagate on Reddit...

Coming from a lawyer... I want to help focus this sub on building a case. If not interested, then i guess the post will just die out. I will ask questions and play devils advocate to help form a case (just like real prosecutors).

To make this on-topic, it seems as if the seth rich killing could blow pizzagate wide open, if proven true. That being said, here are my thoughts... As of right now, everything is based in the court of public opinion. For that, the standard of proof (by how much someone would need to prove something ie beyond 50/50 vs beyond a shadow of a doubt) seems extremely high because at first glance, the DNC involvement in a murder seems unlikely and unreasonable to most people because they don't WANT to believe it.

Moving it over to the criminal prosecution world, the standard is much lower to begin. In order for police to obtain warrants and make arrests, you need to show Probable Cause. Probable cause is a "fair probability." It doesn't even have to be better than 50/50. Probable Cause can be based on hearsay but must be reliable evidence. An anonymous source CAN be used, but only if reliable. For example, an anon source says Steve did it, with no other information, then that is not reliable. However if anon source says Steve did it and included facts that are verifiable and not of public knowledge yet, then that would be reliable.

so let's start... Is it a fair probability that Podesta was involved? If so, what makes it a fair probability? Is it a fair probability that Dr. Sava was involved? If so, what makes it a fair probability?

If you can establish probable cause and then show the DC police are not acting, that's a whole different potential crime and more evidence of the ultimate truth. If there is a cover up by DC police, you might want to find out if it was normal for each officer that reported to the scene to be there and if there are any complaints against any of them and if that was their beat. Also, what is their protocol (from their actual training, not what you suspect it to be) and did they follow it?

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reasonedandinformed ago

These tweets/threads are helpful if you follow them: https://twitter.com/ObamaTruth1/status/867833392347402241

  • From the beginning, all evidence pointed to Seth Rich as a leaker, yet the story immediately was shifted to a "hack" by Russia. The intelligence agencies eventually latched onto this claim...but the FBI was NEVER even allowed to look at the DNC server. The DNC server was looked at by Crowdstrike, paid for by the DNC and with heavy connections to Hillary. They had strong motives to cover for the leak by Rich (motive for murder) and to point to Russia (a meme to attack Trump). All circumstantial behavior around this is very suspect.
  • No one has pursued what Podesta meant when he wrote https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/36082: "I'm definitely for making an example of a suspected leaker." No one has ever asked what he meant by this...but Seth Rich was murdered after this. The leaks spanned from January 2015 through late May 2016, so the timing of the leaks is in synch with Podesta's email threat (http://heavy.com/news/2017/05/seth-rich-evidence-wikileaks-police-report-document-dnc-staffer-homicide-conspiracy-theory/)))))))). It reminds me of what happened to Breitbart after his famous tweet about Podesta): http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov/28/andrew-breitbart-tweet-before-death-adds-fuel-to-o/
  • The behavior of the parents is not consistent with what anyone would expect...fighting ANY leads that would point to his murder for leaking the DNC emails. We receive this indirectly from a PR guy who was hired/paid for by the DNC, so it is not clear if the Rich family believes in this lie that all such leads are politically-motivated.
  • Why would the FBI NOT have insisted to see the server and analyze it directly? The claim, which has been inflated to the highest levels, that the Russians "hacked" the servers to rig our election are so serious, they would have needed to investigate the server for national security reasons but chose to let a firm with strong political ties to the DNC/Hillary do this work. The work itself has been found to be shoddy...and most recently, exposed for potential fraud: https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/6d9xcm/breaking_ive_found_evidence_that_the_dnc/
  • The DC police claimed it was a botched robbery, yet nothing was stolen (wallet, expensive watch/jewely, smartphone, keys). There is no support for this theory. There is huge circumstantial evidence that Rich was the DNC leaker, which provides motive. There are many inconsistencies in the stories that emerged from the shooting...that ShotSpotter was used to detect it initially...then this was denied...and more recently, the idea that a silencer was used (which would make the ShotSpotter source not possible since it relies on the sound of the gunshots). All three bodycams lost/did not have footage, which is a statistical impossibility given normal failure rates of these devices. The police also seem to have lost his laptop.
  • The reports from doctors/medical staff who worked on Seth Rich are not consistent with him dying that morning. This has been documented in several posts on Voat, in which medical personnel who personally worked on Seth indicated that he was in stable condition.
  • The DC Police have hidden virtually any findings/evidence of the crime and are treating it like it is under a gag order, but no one has been arrested or even identified as a suspect. You would expect them to welcome help from the public in finding the murderers.
  • The media, as well as the DNC, have gone apoplectic oveer the idea that his murder was tied to the DNC leaks. They claim that this has been debunked, but there has been zero evidence debunking this. Why such a fight against this theory and line of inquiry? They even came out today with a theory that KimDotCom, who is a very credible go-between in leaking to Wikileaks, may have PLANTED fake evidence that Seth Rich was the leaker. They are making this claim before he even reveals the evidence that he has. I have never seen such behavior.
  • What about the suspicious death of Shawn Lucas, investigating DNC voter fraud, soon after he served the DNC with papers about a lawsuit (http://heavy.com/news/2017/05/seth-rich-evidence-wikileaks-police-report-document-dnc-staffer-homicide-conspiracy-theory/))))))))? The LSM just ignores all of these connections.
  • We should do a FOIA request on all evidence/reports related to the crime (from the police, hospital, laptop evidence, gunshot evidence, the bruising on the hands - there should be DNA evidence from this if he punched the murderers, how it is known that there were two assailants, footage from other cameras in the area,...can the guns be traced, etc.).

The Seth Rich murder could expose so much, especially since it ties to the massive Russia hacking lie and would expose this and related lies/collusion involving the Dems and LSM. Thanks for the work on this!

Viridia ago

Unfortunately, any info that came from an anonymous 4chan poster is unusable until there is evidence to prove their claims. That means at least two of the points you listed are out (for now, at least):

  • The silencer being used in the shooting.

  • The reports from the medical staff.

Also, Kim Dotcom's claims are still unproven, but since his identity is actually attached to the them, the claims have the potential to be validated if/when he provides evidence to back them.