Scott Dworkin (@funder) went after Michael Flynn JR on Twitter last night:
ICYMI:Mike Flynn's Son Was Employee Of Trump Transition When He Spread Fake Pizzagate Story Which Led To DC Shooting
including a link to Esquire's hit piece from Dec 8: Trump's Transition Team Fired Michael G. Flynn After He Spread Fake News About Pizzagate
Mike first replied
ICYMI: @ johnpodesta used "password" as email password, #pizzagate nvr investigated by D.C. Police U have a police rpt on PG investigation?
Followed by
Hey @ funder make u a deal...I promise I'll leave #pizzagate alone if you can produce a report on ANY investigation into #pizzagate
Deal?
So far, Dworkin has not replied to the offer. (Today he is obsessively tweeting about how everything that has ever gone wrong is Russia's fault, and everyone should be investigated for Russian ties... except Podesta.)
Dworkin's bio: Co-Founder-@TheDemCoalition aka Dems Against Trump; Dem Campaigner Since '04; Obama Alum
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RweSure ago
Flynn JR is also pushing a silly idea. Why would there be any investigation into pizzagate? There's no evidence. Everything is based on pure speculation. There's zero probable cause. It's like saying you can falsely call someone an arsonist and claim it's not fake because they have never been investigated for arson. It's completely ass backwards and fake.
I'll make an offer. I'll leave this board if someone can come up with genuine probable cause that the police could use that would justify a warrant against the Podestas, Alefantis or Hillary Clinton.
2impendingdoom ago
How about Hillary writing an email to John Podesta explaining that Saudi Arabia and Qatar fund ISIS for the US? How is that not material support to Terrorists? Is knowing this and still materially supporting SA and Q not also abetting Terrorism and Treason? Why don't you explain that? Or why don't you just go away already.
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/3774
RweSure ago
Please point me to the part when where the email says "for the US." I do not see anything remotely like that.
Also you are are aware that part of the email is quoting someone else's writing, right? Every thing that begins with >> is a quoted email.
2impendingdoom ago
If you think those things you are just too fucking stupid to be sure of anything.
whatonearth ago
What is your understanding of the sentence "The Qataris and Saudis will be put in a position of balancing policy between their ongoing competition to dominate the Sunni world and the consequences of serious U.S. pressure" then? It looks to me like it is saying that serious U.S. pressure will make it harder for the Qataris and Saudis to keep competing to dominate the Sunni world in the manner that they have been. How are you parsing that sentence to get some other intended meaning from it?
RweSure ago
Nothing about that sentence says they are funding ISIS "FOR US." I take that sentence to mean that are following their foreign policy goals that DO NOT coincide with US goals, which is why we would need to apply "serious US pressure" to make them change and stop working against US interests.
@2impendingdoom
I'm challenging you on your claim. I believe you have stated a falsehood. If this is incorrect, show me the evidence. Where is the support for this claim: Saudi Arabia and Qatar fund ISIS for the US?
The text that Hillary Clinton is passing along is clearly not written by the Secretary of State, because the language makes it plain that the person who wrote this is not a policymaker and not privy to insider information. (Do you think the Secretary of State has ground level sources in Tripoli?)
This is someone outside policy discussions as we can see because they are not in the loop regarding the plan to advise the Iraqi military.
If I had one guess, it would be this is an email from Sidney Blumenthal who was passing along information from his business partner and ex-CIA officer, Tyler Drumheller. He sent a lot of emails like this and Blumenthal was interviewed by the Benghazi Committee about them.
2impendingdoom ago
The email was sent by Hilliary to John Podesta so unless she states somebody else wrote it, which she doesn't, then she wrote it. Are you claiming that somebody hacked her email and sent JP fake emails? I think HRC did have ground level sources in both Tripoli and Bengazi until the Bengazi sources were conveniently murdered and its very likely that she was not in the loop regarding Iraq. Regardless of who wrote it, it was from HRC and it definitely says that the US gov. knows and in complicit in supporting ISIS through SA and Q. The email very clearly spells in out in language that anyone can understand, even me who really hasn't studied this much at all. You can not be sure, that's fine if you want to be stubbornly ignorant, but I am sure, and you're not going to bully me into changing my mind about the facts as they are presented.
RweSure ago
You're kidding right? You never emailed something that you yourself didn't write? You probably do it all the time. You never copied and pasted part of an article into an email and sent it?
This is a classic example of a fallacy of false choice: presenting only TWO options as possible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma#Similar_concepts
This is fantasizing. And Clinton's sources would be official sources. She would have never had visited Libya informally and would have never build a network of sources (unlike an ex-CIA agent now doing business in Libya.)
It says nothing of the kind. It is explicitly about the US fighting ISIS. And it lays out the following ways of doing so.
Did you read the full email? Did you read all the parts I quoted and much more in the email it talks about all the different ways we need to fight ISIS. The email is basically a list of tactics/strategies to fight ISIS. (By the way, in intel/military speak "engage" meets fight.) I'm not really sure how anyone who reads that full email thinks it's about supporting ISIS. I'm not being stubborn or ignorant or bullying. You should look at the whole email again with an open mind if you're able to.
In terms of not studying the issue, the issue is not a black and white issue. You've heard the term "frenemies?" It's that type of deal.
The not-so-simple version is our relationships with Saudi Arabia and Qatar are hugely complicated and contradictory. They are both strategic allies and provide huge amounts of support for US military efforts. We have an air base in Qatar and a training base and secret drone base in Saudi Arabia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Udeid_Air_Base
However, this doesn't mean we control what they do. They still follow their own self interest. Their main interest is countering Iran and they do this by funding Sunni forces around region. I bet they have funded Sunni forces who were fighting each other. (Actually that is probably guaranteed in Syria) Part of the reason the Syria war is so vicious is it is a proxy war where Sunni states like Qatar and Saudi Arabia are fighting their enemy, Shiite Iran. Assad doesn't have enough forces to control the country, the Syrian army is getting help from Shiite forces from Iran and Lebanon. When the Civil War in Syria broke out in Syria, Saudia Arabia and Qatar didn't wait for our permission to get involved. They jumped right in. They started sending weapons in 2011. They have a hugely complicated and contradictory relationship with jihadist groups as well. ISIS would love to kill of the Saudi Royal Family. They would love to take over Qatar or Saudi Arabia.
They are also not happy with our actions. Our intervention in Iraq has had the effect of greatly increasing Iran's power, because we overthrew a Sunni dictator of a majority Shiite country. They were hoping we would just install a new Sunni. Instead a Shiite was elected Prime Minister he allied himself with Iran and when we left he started turning into a Shiite dictator. This is part of the reason why ISIS was able to come back in Iraq after it was wiped out. The Shiite PM started cracking down on the Sunnis, he also never set up a national army, the best troops were meant to protect Baghdad, the troops in the Sunni areas were a shell, completely corrupt. One of the reasons ISIS took over so fast, is the Iraqi army gave up....in some cases their officers didn't even provide them with enough water to fight for a couple of days.
They also didn't like the Iran nuclear deal. The Sunni states feel they are basically at war with Iran, a war that will last far longer than the US's presence in the Middle East. (Iran probably feels the same way.) Because of this, they will follow their own interests.
2impendingdoom ago
I'm not reading this, you are a proven shill and an idiot, I don't have any fucking interest in your opinions. You obviously don't care about protecting children and you think corruption is fine and treason isn't a problem and you are going to twist every thing around to be okay with it no matter what it is. Its a personality disorder. Some things are just wrong and you are too. Get over yourself.
whatonearth ago
Knows, yes, but complicit how? The only mention of Saudi Arabia and Qatar in the message is acknowledging their clandestine support for ISIS and saying the US should respond with diplomatic pressure. Are you interpreting that to mean some sort of "keep up the good work, fellas!" pressure? I don't think that's what diplomatic pressure means.
2impendingdoom ago
The only mention of Saudi Arabia and Qatar in the message is acknowledging their clandestine support for ISIS.
That pretty much sums it up.
2impendingdoom ago
I don't know, I guess I'd say that this sentence means that SA&Q are competing against each other and the US manipulates contention between them, but the email is a lot longer than one sentence so out of context don't hold this opinion as definitive or with any expertise. I'm just trying to understand as best I can.
antiracist ago
http://livingresistance.com/2016/11/18/podestas-involved-mccanns-abduction-factual-analysis/
@eagleshigh @sarmegahhikkitha @bojangles