Ted Gunderson claimed the government kidnaps children for satanic abuse. He was the former head of FBI in Memphis, Dallas, and LA. Can someone explain to me why this isn't considered reasonable proof? (pizzagate)

submitted ago by anonymousgate

Not to mention the fact that his doctor, Dr. Ed Lucidi was treating him for arsenic poisoning over the years, and believed that he died of arsenic poising.

I seriously just do not comprehend why this is not considered enough cause for alarm. How on earth is this not even considered a possibility to most people? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!!

EDIT: Here's a video of Ted Gunderson speaking out.

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Cantilever ago

It's a simple formula - discredit anyone by using a thought-terminating cliche, like "conspiracy theory" or "fake news."

pizzapartywithkids ago

Here's a new one for people to digest.

"Satanic Ritual Abuse": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Remembers

In the book Michelle Remembers, psychiatrist Lawrence Padzer writes what he initially claims to be a biographical recounting of Michelle Smith, in regards to her abuse as a child. In the book, Padzer coins the phrase (first time its absolutely published) "Satanic Ritual Abuse". The therapy session went on through the 70s and this book was released in 1980. Also important to note that by the time the book was published, Padzer and Smith had become romantically involved. While supposedly a biographical account, numerous people have debunked most of the claims in the book.

So what about Padzer and his phrase? What makes that a false flag phrase?

Pazder returned to Canada in 1964 and completed his psychiatric training at McGill University in 1968.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Pazder

If you're unfamiliar, McGill University in Canada, this is the location where much of the leaked info comes from in regards to MK ULTRA.

8 months before this book was published, some new leaks on MK ULTRA began to break. http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/episodes/40-years-of-the-fifth-estate/mk-ultra

Following the release of this book, it was used as training material for social workers and other investigators that began a large witch hunt for this sort of activity, largely in day cares.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110303215319/http://members.shaw.ca/imaginarycrimes/michelleremembers.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-care_sex-abuse_hysteria

Many of these allegations were flimsy at best and relied on heavy amounts of coercion on the parts of the interviewers. The technique became known as the "Miami Method" after Miami couple Joseph and Laurie Braga began using it to effectively prosecute day care providers, based not on solid evidence, but through multiple corroborating allegations from the children. The recorded interviews were edited to just to areas where the children were expressing allegations and largely omitted the highly leading questions and coercion from the Bragas.

An important question to ask now is how the Bragas reached prominence in their methodology. Janet Reno.

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/decline/chldterr.htm

If you want an idea on the concept of children the Bragas held, just read this interview they did for Frontline.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/terror/techniques/bragatestimony.html

Do you think it would be possible for a young child to be coached about being sexually abused?

It's possible, but it's extremely rare and difficult to do.

Why is it extremely rare and difficult to do?

For one thing, very young kids have very limited memory for things that did not actually occur to them. If you say to a child, for example, "Go upstairs and get your coat and close the door, come down and we are going for a ride," by the time the child goes upstairs, they are going to forget to get the coat, close the door, and they might go back downstairs and forget to do half the things. Children don't have the capacity in terms of their memory to absorb and give back very much, and for a young child, four, five, six years old, it's very limited. There is not a limit in terms of what they actually experience, but in terms of what somebody can teach them and have them remember, and give back in the same way, it's just very limited in young child.

Anyone that has spent time around young children, knows this in general, is total horse shit. Especially when discussing 5 and 6 year-olds. You can get children to repeat just about anything you want them to.

Ultimately, their method was determined to officially be horseshit coercion which resulted in many of the cases being overturned.

So just to recap, we have a book coining the phrase, 'Satanic Ritual Abuse' by a psychiatrist that attended McGill University around the same time as the MK ULTRA experiments, and then later being used as training material for people like Laurie Braga who helped Janet Reno, future Bill Clinton Attorney General, lead a true witch hunt against small name day care centers, by coercing children into false memories of sexual abuse.

What does this all mean? Does this mean Pizzagate is bunk? No. It means MK ULTRA is very likely involved here and very likely planted a major false flag against investigations like Pizzagate. Remember how 'these sort of witch hunts have happened before only to turn up nothing'? Yeah, its these exact cases they are insinuating. All the cases that have turned out to be real, have involved very well known public figures. Let that sink in.

hedy ago

I disagree with most of your post... particularly your assertion that MKU is inexplicably linked to McGill and "all the cases that have turned out to be real, have involved very well known public figures."

pizzapartywithkids ago

particularly your assertion that MKU is inexplicably linked to McGill

Really? There is a nice section on Wikipedia even discussing this connection. Not to mention, the very legitimate evidence that lead to several Canadian victims receiving settlements for their treatment.

"all the cases that have turned out to be real, have involved very well known public figures."

This is probably poor phrasing on my part. I was mostly intending to mean in regards to the panic in the 1980s. Numerous convictions were made on smaller figures but usually required coerced testimony from children in these smaller settings. Plenty of news stories on this as a lot of them were overturned as a result when they were reviewed.Citron of the Franklin Coverup, Aquino of the Presidio Day Care, others that aren't coming to me just now.

hedy ago

Sorry - I meant that your post suggested MKU origins at McGill. I agree there are connections.

Regarding the "panic" - I'm now confused as to what you're trying to say. Are you suggesting that the Franklin Coverup and Presidio cases were created with false victim testimony?

I guess I disagree that there was coerced testimony, in general. I'm not saying that this never happens--but based on everything I have dug up about these pedo cases the children are usually telling the truth and there is usually a concerted effort to discredit them, given the horrifying charges and the fact that it's very difficult to believe that even less notable people are capable of such crimes. These cases are also very difficult to prove - I lost count of how many cases I've read that included medical records and testimony of sexual abuse that were discredited or dismissed as evidence. My brother was molested by the minister at our very nice church camp (and looking back, based on the minister's son's behavior who was my age and also attended camp, he was also being abused by the minister). No one believed my brother at first. Look how long it took the Catholic church to believe those victims.

I think there can exist very real cases of these crimes AND panic that results in false accusations or hysteria. But from everything I have read in the past year, with these pedo cases and certainly where satanic ritual abuse is involved (because it is so horrific it is usually unbelievable), where there is smoke there is generally fire. Particularly, early on in the modern history of these cases when there was less history, fewer patterns, etc. to recognize to give credence to the evidence.

One theory that might interest you regarding what might appear to be a "surge" of activities is the timing of the drug experimentation in the 60s and subsequent women's movement, which gave women permission to be more open about abuse. Based on what I've read about the mind control programs, women made better subjects and were also more "useful" as sexual bait and seducers. This is why there are more female perpetrators than one might expect--there were typically more female victims who grew up in these generational abuser families. When these women discovered/revealed their histories, which often didn't occur until much later in life, and started sharing publicly, it often triggered memories in other people who had also experienced the same and gave them permission (safety in numbers) to also come forward. This could take decades for some people given the complexities of the DID phenomenon.

With respect to the daycare center "panic" I think there was some very real foundation to the charges of these crimes but most of it was successfully covered up. What you hear and read about as "false accusations and resulting frenzy" is the public narrative that the machine wants you to understand. Nothing to see here, move along, and you'd better think twice before making any charges like this. This culture exists today. There are far more sexual victims today than are reported. When I was growing up, I heard that 1 in 5 girls experienced some sort of sexual abuse (and the definition is pretty broad) bin childhood. Now, the odds are 1 in 3 based on a new report - sorry don't remember where I read this. We certainly don't have 30% of girls reporting abuse. Most of it is not reported. Even less so once people become adults.

Of course, the victims telling stories always attracts the crazies and attention-seekers and there is certainly some CIA COINTEL going on but they are usually the minority. When more of the survivors spoke out, more of the children were believed. It's an interesting domino effect.