New here, first post, have been following events and pondering. My thoughts: With all the talk of tunnels and basements and checking of permits it would make sense to look at this from a straight up construction point of view. If the intent of the project is to do something this sinister and obviously illegal then the normal permitting and construction code process should probably be eliminated as much as possible. And if you have connections and cash many things can get done on the down low, as in who ever actually looks at the jobsite permits that need to be posted and other such things, by that I mean the average person just walking by a jobsite.
I used google earth to take a look at the CPP site and went through the historical imagery available there. There are two things that strike me as somewhat odd, they are as follows:
Consider that the whole strip mall is apperently built on a thin layer of fill material at what appears to be the head of a shallow creek bed.
There is a picture of trench work being done ( at CPP I believe) that is in the shape of a "Y" with what appears to be a run of pipe exposed somewhat (it looks like trenchwork not tunneling, hear me out, please). If you look at the latest satelite imagery there is somewhat similar "Y" shape shadow image on the roof at the rear of the building, this suggests settling of the exterior walls ( which support the roof), the slab most likely is independent of the walls since the walls are brick I believe, where the trench penetrates the wall subgrade it will most likely cause settling of the non-native fill material and the brick wall above it. The trenchworks appear to be of a drainage system. This end of the building also appears to be at a lower finished grade than the street level entrance end of the building. Changes in elevation like this can create ideal situations for other spaces that are not readily noticeable.
Looking at the rooftops of the immediate strip mall complex there looks to be a continuous fault line running at about the 55' line measured from the front of the building. Note that it terminates at CPP at the north end and the large building 8 addresses down towards the SXSE end. There seems to be something going on subgrade, also note that i took shadowing into account, such as trees and powerlines.
Anybody with access to better imagery may see much more and confirm or deny what I think I see on normal civilian google earth.
srayzie ago
Hmmm. Well we know he gets donations from Hillary so I'm sure paying for something to be built underneath the building, or nearby, can be done on the down low. What you said is interesting. You should take some screen shots
TruthTrumps ago
Any way you can explain what you are trying to convey here? Sorry...i think i'm too pizzagated out to comprehend this morning.
24Rainier7 ago
My point is that the visual pattern on the roof may be caused due to the undermining of the walls at specific points, if there is not enough support from bellow ( think shoring up timbers and support beams to span the trench/tunnel) it may well cause low points that then transfer all the way up to the roof. I know, lots of reading and trying to connect dots can get tiring, I'm trying to find the balance between long winded too much detail and too short no info.
ThorTheWonderful ago
Why wouldn't there already be tunnels consider when these building were built, pretty much all commercial properties within the cities had boiler tunnels under them.
24Rainier7 ago
Scale matters, centralized boilers and the associated utilidors tend to part of larger institutions, like hospitals, schools and government facilities. Not 80 year old strip malls built in what at that time would have been the outskirts of town.
ThorTheWonderful ago
Where I am, we have several similar layouts that have boiler tunnels for a "block" heat system that used to be central to these. The old large buildings have tunnels that went to a city boiler. Depending on age, they do vary but these larger buildings even as late as the 60's were still being connected to the central municipal boiler system and have many tunnels.
Imagine if these business's had to each have their own coal fire furnaces just because they were and small strip.. It would be a disaster. And every unit would have to have a basement, even if they used oil heat, they would still need a basement for the furnace and the black smoke and soot would be terrible.
24Rainier7 ago
Fair enough, if that is the case (pre-existing tunnels for steam ) would they simply have penetrations for the plumbing alone or would they have mandoors to each address, I don't know. Here is my other post https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1460631 . It's just odd, like all the other coincidences that constantly keep popping up.
ThorTheWonderful ago
The tunnels I've seen vary from 2 foot diameter culvert for short runs to 8 foot by 8 foot corridors. Boiler pipes were seldom buried solid as they are a high maintenance item that needs lots of attention. Burying them can also create dangerous cocktail if pipes fail underground. Thats why boilers always used tunnels.
24Rainier7 ago
That's what I'm getting at, steam pipes almost always have tunnels as you say, but getting from the utility tunnel to the individual addresses would not require access points for a person to fit through, just enough to replace the plumbing as needed. Fast forward to the present era and if someone were to try and capitalize on these now abandoned tunnels by retrofitting I doubt they would use the permitting process ( remember the context). Would there be municipal records for such a network, if it exists in that locale ?
ThorTheWonderful ago
I found another thread that had links to photos of Comet. I just copied my post from that thread..
These photos give us absolute proof that Comet Ping Pong has a basement..
Here is the main floor, you can see the rafter above. https://www.flickr.com/photos/expo86/2818439733/in/faves-76789827@N03/ Also if you look at the outside of the building you can clearly see there is no room for any upper level, not even a crawl space.
Now here is the basement where you can clearly see FLOOR JOISTS.. https://www.flickr.com/photos/metalchris/5710493003/in/faves-76789827@N03/
Somebody archive these photos before they take them down please.. These are proof of a basement!!
Edit: add one more https://www.flickr.com/photos/55533504@N08/16501935549/in/faves-76789827@N03/
24Rainier7 ago
Regarding the "two story" listing thing, I think that comes from the change of elevation at the rear of the building, like a split level home. Regarding this picture https://www.flickr.com/photos/metalchris/5710493003/in/faves-76789827@N03/ there are a couple of things that stick out, first is the guy standing by the speaker looks just like this guy with his arms crossed ( I was informed by another poster he is a business partner with J. A. ) https://i.sli.mg/2TXOhU.png , in a contracting outfit called HERECOMESYOURMAN LLC , his name and profile if it is the same person is here https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-kreher-54551338 . I suppose that makes sense if they are business partners. Back to the image itself - The painting hanging in the background looks like the one in the ping-pong room in the midsection of the restaurant, but the ceiling height looks too low, also note the blue lampshades hanging, they only have about 10"-12" of cord.
Looking at the next image https://www.flickr.com/pho notice the rafter layout just above the drummer, it looks just like a skylight framework, which can be seen from the exterior of the google earth imagery. And as I was looking at that picture in that flicker account I noticed this picture https://www.flickr.com/pho , note the lady in the right hand side of the picture (with the stripped pants) there is a crack in the wall behind her that runs all way up to the ceiling, how about that, that is what I was talking about in this post to begin with. And that is why the underpinning thing is such a potential big deal, all of the subterranean work (if there is any) will show if you cut corners. Remember they are working in fill dirt, another poster (somewhere in this mess) provided historical maps that literally a river used to run through it. What we need is some as-built drawings, along with permits, and of course more images inside and out.
ThorTheWonderful ago
I'm still evaluating, I might be inclined to agree with you about the sky light BUT is that was the roof of an addition or something, then they would be insulation at least around the plumbing if nothing else. The large square hole was a later construction and not very well done. Compared to the 40-50 year old construction around it and the coloration of the floor boards. Then I just realize, what I thought was a stud wall behind them is only a stud wall from the joists down to the top of a concrete wall, like a basement. The other basement photo I posted has HUGE heavy timber floors joist, likely from the original construction but not typically used as rafter in a vaulted roof and the first photo show the truss rafters actually used for the roof. Which has been used in construction for a very long time, though modern truss rafters are metal, older ones varied in design. But the heavy 4x16 joists(estimating) are very common in old commercial buildings where there is a probability of extreme and sustained load such as store shelves loaded with products or forklift or other heavy equipment might tread.
I think we are looking at a lower room (the back room) with a mezzanine in one photo and a basement in the other.
24Rainier7 ago
Let's change topics for a bit and look at this from a different angle. Look at all the pics available, many of them show a ceiling shot, or doorways, or just walls. We have missed it so far. Fire Code. Not a single sprinkler head, fire extinguisher, pull station, emergency exit signage over doorways, emergency lighting , pull station or any of that. Fire Marshal Bill would have a holiday in this place. How could this possibly happen?
ThorTheWonderful ago
And here is the post https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1461247
ThorTheWonderful ago
Ya, usually the only access would be a man hole or a steel door at one end as well as a vent, a blind man hole with no ladder or a chimney to the top of the building in case of a burst pipe. And my thoughts exactly, who would get a permit to try to use such tunnels. It wouldn't be granted to them I'm sure. As for municipal records, that would depend on policies on record keeping as well as history, if a records hall burns down, what records would there be?! Records cost a lot to keep too so if a records hall never burned down, they might have an expire on records or sort the records according to what is still being used and destroy the rest. While some places keep all records as a matter of preservation of historical value. The only way to know if there are records is to go to the city records department in that area and look it up. If we are lucky, they updated to microfilm and still have copies of all the construction and infrastructure.
ThorTheWonderful ago
Even for far less nefarious reasons, if I had a tunnel like that, I wouldn't seek a permit to turn it into a cold room or something.
TruthTrumps ago
Anybody looking at this?