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Meatwood_Flac ago

Highly unlikely. See vivid explanation in this ATS piece:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1155562/pg1

KDs_Other_Burner ago

Great link, many thanks.

Meatwood_Flac ago

Thanks. I authored it myself.

MarauderShields ago

Just got around to reading that. Thanks for your hard work. Did you ever do a follow up?

Meatwood_Flac ago

If you’re talking about part 7 it starts on like the 5th or 6th page in the thread. Any follow up information that I’ve added were done in the replies. It’s a good thread to read from start to finish, I encourage all to follow through to the end.

MarauderShields ago

Thanks. Maybe because I was reading on a mobile I missed something. What I found was quite lengthy and I read it all compulsively. The best description would be with gruesome fascination. I've got the page marked and I'll check it on desktop.

KDs_Other_Burner ago

Great work, enjoyed it. Literally inspired me to rewatch the film for the first time in maybe ten or twelve years. I literally saw EWS at the movies the night it came out and it remains the only film I've gone to see at the movies more than once. After rewatching, I had a few thoughts of my own. Do you think Domino is a version of Bill and Alices daughter Helena? She has a tiger on her bed that is from the same toyshop the film ends in? Is Domino future Helena?

Have some other thoughts if you're interested. If not, thanks again for a very interesting detailed and thoughtful analysis.

Meatwood_Flac ago

Domino’s character is a curious one because she was not in the novella at all which means she was entirely the creation of Kubrick. I’m not sure if I think that she represents Bill & Alice’s daughter Helena, I think I’m leaning more toward the idea of both Domino & Helena being two iterations of the same sacred sex symbol.

Interesting, a lot of people think it’s possible that Domino was one of the female sex slaves at the orgy, specifically she was the one that tried to seduce him before they were interrupted by Mandy, the first masked woman who tries to warn him.

KDs_Other_Burner ago

Had another rewatch, this time with a friend who hadn't seen EWS before. With the fresh perspective, I have a few more queries you may find interesting.

1: My friend watched it and seemed to think Domino was wearing expensive fur on the street when she picks up Bill. I had always assumed it was cheap tacky shit. He thought it was expensive fur, therefore she didn't need to streetwalk because Domino was a well kept girl. Therefore if she didn't need to streetwalk, she didn't meet Bill by chance.....what's your take?

2: What's with all the strange lies the various women in the film drop. Alice tells Bill she needs the bathroom, heads for the bar. Mandy rescues Bill at the orgy from the other whore; she tells that whore "I'll bring him right back" but tries to do the opposite by urging Bill to leave. Domino on the street makes conversation by asking Bill the time; a few moments later in the apartment she tells him not to worry as she doesn't keep track of the time.

3: Another point from my friend. If Kubrick is the master of visuals, is it an accident that he exposes the fact the costume shop as being directly opposite from the Sonata Jazz Bar and Gillespies? In the initial meeting with Milich when Bill is trying to get a costume, Kubrick clearly deliberately uses the reflection of the neon as Milich comes out of his apartment. Behind Bill as he speaks you can see the Gillespies sign etc. This was intentional? If so, why? And why does Bill then pretend that to get to the costume place you need to take a cab?

4: Bill goes to the mansion orgy in a cab, takes the offramp, drives in from the right. When he returns in his own wheels, he skips the offramp and arrives from the opposite direction. Significance? Meaning?

5: The random anonymous audience member who thanks Nick Nightingale as he gets off stage....and then less than thirty seconds later Nick tells Bill that he didn't miss much, the band "sucked". This is the same scene as a rare Kubrick cameo. Theories as to significance?

6: At the Ziegeler party, the initial shot of Bill and Alice. Are the two guys from the toyshop the two immediately behind Bill?

Hoping you can make sense of some of these, but if you can't or are too busy thanks again for the analysis you've already provided.

Meatwood_Flac ago

  1. Yes it is an expensive coat, no she does not “need” to work as a high end prostitute. Girls like Domino and Mandy and real life women who work as high end hookers usually find their way into that work from modeling, eventually settling for prostitution over modeling because the money and lifestyle is consistent and lavish. Girls like that don’t need to spend money, their high end gentlemen clients do it for them. They still make thousands a day having sex with them, thousands they don’t have to spend because they are worshipped.

  2. I think they are intentionally written into the plot to demonstrate (subtly) the effective misdirection deployed by women, almost instinctually, and then what role it plays sociologically in secret circles.

  3. I’m not sure that is the sonata cafe or the coffee shop in the reflection? I’ll have to go back and check.

  4. Many people online have pointed to the research Kubrick did on “subversion in advertising” for The Shining to explain the apparent “inversion of reality” at play in the daylight scenes in Eyes Wide Shut.

  5. Not only that, but Kubrick looks directly into the camera in the background! That was obviously intentional. I’m honestly not sure about what that could mean, as for the rest of the scene the under lighted globes on the tables resemble crystal balls which is a reference to magic. Since this is the scene where Bill becomes “enchanted” by the Nick’s tale about the masked orgies, perhaps Kubrick’s presence in this scene is his way of “enchanting“ the audience with his lure of real life sex cult conspiracy references? Keep in mind that before he died, Kubrick told Jan Harlan that Eyes Wide Shut was his “greatest contribution to the art of cinema.” I wonder why he thinks EWS is a better film than say 2001: A Space Odyssey?

  6. It took me until I was able to watch the Blu-ray on a quality projector before I could confirm but yes those same two men by the Venus statue at Zeigler’s are the same two men that seem to be hovering over Helena in the aisle at the toy store. I’m convinced that it wasn’t an accident they appeared in the final scene.

Meatwood_Flac ago

That's very interesting! Thank you for those still grabs from the film.

The answer may very well be mundane. There's a good chance they had to reuse sets/props when constructing the near identical replica of the East Village of NYC. Most fans assume that it was shot on location in NYC. Not so... all those scenes where Cruise is walking through the streets at night were filmed in Elstree Studios in the UK. Any shots of the same streets seen during the day in EWS were shot on location in LONDON. This could explain the continuity errors or the impossible geography of the sets.

I do see how there's a neon sign at the diner that says OPEN 24 HOURS, then in the same shot directly to the right where the menu says open from 6AM-10PM. I'll have to reexamine that!

As far as Nick's slip at the cafe to Bill... Well I've always assumed Nick was an agent of the secret sex cult. Just do an etymology on the name Nightingale and you will see that it is of German/Jewish origin, much like Ziegler's name. Keep in mind Nick dropped out of medical school to be a concert pianist.... seems odd that Ziegler would have recommended a common nobody to play music for the orgies..