What is MGTOW and what are the arguments for it?
Here's what MGTOW means to me. Note that this post is all nicely numbered, 1 - 5. All you have to do to argue against me is pick the number that you disagree with.
If you have additional arguments for MGTOW, you're welcome to also post them below.
What are arguments against MGTOW?
We had this previous sticky post where I invited people to post such arguments.
I think that the most common criticism of MGTOW is some variation of the claim that one has a duty to have children. I have two responses to that:
(1) It seems to me that most men come to MGTOW later in life. Many of us are divorced. Many do actually have children.
(2) The supply of virtuous, marriage-quality women is far lower than the number of men willing to marry them. The few men who go MGTOW do not make the marriage/children situation worse. And if you could snap your fingers and destroy MGTOW and put all of us back out on the dating market, you wouldn't magically get more marriages or more children. All you would get is more competition for the existing men.
Notice:
If you create an entire thread just to present a new argument against MGTOW, the thread will be deleted and you will be banned. Why? Because you're just trolling. There is a sticky thread right here just for you. Post an argument in this thread and I personally will respond to you. The rest of the sub is not yours, so don't shit on it.
These are the exact same rules as any other subvoat. If you go into /v/traditionalwives and make a thread advocating feminism, they will ban you. If you go into /v/guns and make a thread advocating gun control, they will ban you.
TrialsAndTribulation ago
MGTOW isn't sustainable because it's a negative response to feminism. Our grandparents (i.e. those born before 1950) had no doubt what their place was in society. The US was largely white, Christian, and patriotic. Men and women knew their place was to marry, be decent people, support themselves, raise their children well, and contribute to society and further the next generation.
Feminism and rejection of Christian values killed that. My argument against MGTOW is that it's reactive and negative rather than life-affirming and positive. Reclaim traditional values of monogamy and traditional sexual roles. Set your standards higher than the weaker men around you, ignore and absolutely reject any woman who claims to be a feminist and denigrates traditional values, and continue associating with the few good women who do indeed exist who will have a positive affect on your life.
UnrealMcCoy ago
MGTOW can have girlfriends, families, even kids. No one owns it there is no official definition. That's why is is going your own way faggits, it's nothing new Sinatra sang about it.
MGTOW_and_HAPPY ago
The MGTOW attitude is not even remotely related to the number of “virtuous” females available at any given time however you may chose to define said “virtuosity”
The MGTOW attitude is the consequence of state gynocentrism and feminazism and white knighting and basically, to sum it up, cultural marxism having been elevated to the state and culturally accepted religion of the day.
The MGTOW attitude is related to the need to avoid inviting the criminal state into our lives by means of having a relationship with ANY female that may and most probably will, fall into the criminal regulation of such relationships that is common these days.
The virtues of the female notwithstanding it is the fact that by means of a relationship with her we are de facto having to put our balls on a chopping block and handing her an ax to be used as per her whims and with total lack of accountability which causes us to become MGTOW. And the fact than on her mere say so, the state will provide the henchmen to hold us down for her convenience and comfort.
Any female can be the worst of them or the best of them and still she’s a risk not worth taking. Her qualifications have nothing to do with MGTOW.
The reason for MGTOW is the state and its collectivist gynofascist attitudes.
vonclausewitz ago
You're right that the law is currently like giving a weapon to someone and hoping she doesn't use it on you.
The way I was thinking when I wrote the post above is, I have to admit, pretty blue pill - I was thinking that if you found a "good" woman, it wouldn't matter that she had a gun pointed at your head. But the truth is, the very existence of that gun is an incentive for her to break up the marriage. So, I agree with you that the law is a major problem.
But even if you fixed that problem, I still don't believe there would be enough marriage-worthy women to go around.
GassyMcGasface ago
2) risk/reward. Your children will be subjects of the Jew.
vonclausewitz ago
What did he mean by this?
AnothervoatAcc ago
MGTOW is THOT defense. It shouldn't be the ultimate goal. It's good to not let women suck up all your energy because you want to get laid. Don't live your life in pursuit of cheap sex. If you are that sex obsessed go get a hooker. Try to be the best your can.- Body, mind, and Spirit.
Although, having said all that, all the women I grew up with are turbo thots, and unsuitable for marriage. Society is only getting worse. I really don't know what im going to do. I might move to another country and marry young. IDK. Fuck bros.
vonclausewitz ago
Yep. Pretty much agree on all points. One thing I'd add is that my objection to marriage in today's society has two components. Women, on average, are awful, of course. But in addition to that, divorce court and family court are serious threats. Why take that risk?
You say MGTOW is defense. I agree. I say the thing I'm defending against is not women as a group. It's the risk. I don't accept the risk of marriage.
AnothervoatAcc ago
Yeah it sucks man. I mean life is about risk, but marriage in this society is really a bad gamble. You have 50% of divorce. We know what divorce leads to. It sucks man. I just want a simple life. So hard these days.
nofishtocatch ago
I see here as a softer incels sub. One big difference is some guys here have a history of sex, but I don't think the majority can get any consistently if they want it without paying for it. People I see locally who claimed to be MGTOW are guys who do it to make themselves feel better after complaining about not getting laid. Quality men among us are the minority.
combatveteran ago
Against MGTOW:
Women who don't have kids (and don't have anywhere to put their nurturing instinct) turn into radical leftist and communist hags. So save civilization. Knock up a girl today.
madmardigan ago
No matter what men do they cannot go their own way if the continue to live in and contribute to society. Modern women are insentivised to leech off the system.
Mgtow is inherntly flawed because of this. To truly go your own way would require leaving society.
elitch2 ago
Stop being a pussy.
Just be a man, and you will attract a woman.
DOn't be a white knight cuck, no woman wants that.
Don't argue with women, it gets nowhere. Just show the bitch that you are willing to walk away and find someone who suits you.
Don't indulge their infantile shit tests.
Do; Be couteous, pay for fucking dinner, etc.
Just watch a movie from the 40's, and act like that.
superspathi ago
The mgtows aren't interested in attracting women. Women have nothing to offer them.
vonclausewitz ago
There are no arguments here. You assume things without evidence, and give advice that doesn't relate to anyone's reasons for being MGTOW.
elitch2 ago
mgtow is black-pilled, defeatist bullshit.
Find your balls, man.