SCP and CCP no longer play any role in your ability do submit links/start discussions or vote. You can now downvote as soon as you create an account. Please note that you can only vote once from a single IP address (voting IP addresses are stored encrypted and we have no way to reverse this encryption). We are still tweaking this so please report if you notice anything unusual about voting.
Edit: The biggest reason for this change is that I noticed how multiple subverses had "please upvote me" threads where their members were able to gain 300+ CCP in matter of minutes. At the same time, regular users would need weeks or even months to reach this level. That essentially broke the old system and we need something new. Perhaps requiring new accounts to create 100 comments in 100 different subs before being able to vote 100 times? If you have an idea, please feel free to share it, I'm all ears.
Edit 2: Here is an example of the problem I am trying to tackle:
- a large corporation which has hundreds or thousands of employees, comes over to Voat and pushes their advertising links to the frontpage because upvotes are not restricted for new accounts as much as downvotes
- at the same time, majority of Voat users today does not have the ability to downvote or has restricted downvotes
Edit 3: This is now reverted to the way it was. I need to think this through.
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EIMR ago
I don't like this. This stopped new groups from brigading and taught that downvoting is important, not to be used indiscriminately as a disagree button. I don't see anything good coming from this.
EDIT: @Atko , what will happen with subverses that decide to continue having the CCP Requirement? Will they still be out of v/All?
erowidtrance ago
Get rid of downvotes for comments, it's only a bad thing. Downvotes discourage people from commenting, create echo chambers and are beloved by brigades. Upvotes are all you need.
EIMR ago
Then for a brigade it is easy to get low quality comments to the top and nobody can do anything.
erowidtrance ago
Low quality comments get to the top easier when subs become echo chambers because people who go against that get downvoted. The top comments on most reddit threads are retarded jokes people have told a million times before. You get a sub filled with the same kind of people and they constantly upvotes exactly the same content over and over again. You'll get more diversity of opinion and therefore more interesting discussions when people can't downvote as it's harder for a circlejerk to form.
EIMR ago
I say that it's the opposite, people get downvoted because they go against the circlejerk. If there aren't downvotes the comments are just ignored, so the circlejerky comments are still on top.
erowidtrance ago
You will always get some degree of an echo chamber but the point is downvotes magnify it. Once a circlejerk is formed it's reinforced no only by upvotes but also by downvotes. Add to that the fact most people simply stop commenting because their views get so many downvotes. As long as someones comments receive no upvotes they're at least not discouraged from posting again if they also get no downvotes.
The other major problem is brigading. With downvotes you leaves subs open to SJW types organising brigades to manipulate discussions in their favour. If they can only upvote it's not as easy for them, their power to manipulate is halved.
EIMR ago
People also get discouraged if their comments are simply ignored. And downvotes are quite useful, it's not worth it to remove them as that won't do much.
And if there is no downvote button, whatever thing the brigade has upvoted will continue upvoted. And while downvoting does give them more control, they would need to downvote a lot of posts, and that is trackable. It is obvious that something is fishy when all posts have 20 downvoats.
erowidtrance ago
Any issues just having upvotes has is made much worse with downvotes aswell, that's the fundamental point. People may be less likely to comment if they consistently get no upvotes but if they consistently get a bunch of downvotes it's much worse. That makes the circlejerk far worse than just with upvotes, getting loads of downvotes is like a big fuck you from the sub saying they don't want your opinion expressed there.
When certain opinions aren't consistently getting downvotes those people are more likely to stick around and if there end up enough of them they'll challenge whatever circlejerk already exists. If you have downvotes everyone who doesn't follow the hive mind just leaves and the circlejerk intensifies.
You're relying on admins always dealing with this which is asking a lot. This site is going to be bombarded with brigades as it's one of the few site not overrun by SJW's. I'd rather just give those kind of people less leverage in the first place by halving their power to brigade. Even if they just brigade an upvote only system at least people can argue with the brigaded comments and they won't get downvoted.
EIMR ago
I say that your comment being ignored is practically the same as getting downvoted. And while it is more probable without downvotes for dissenting opinions to stay, the mayority would just go to another subverse. I think that the small advantage of dissenting opinions being just ignored instead of downvotes is not enough for losing the downvote button.
And it is true that it depends too much on the admins, but if it's an organized brigade it's usually important enough for the admins to act. Also, if they only upvote it appears legit.