I can't stand by and watch stuff like this happen around here. I will not support subverses (by featuring them or making them defaults) with moderators who impose questionable rules such as "your post has to end with a questionmark". Moderators need to calm their tits and focus on nurturing and growing their communities. Rules can always be bent and what better time to bend the rules then now, while Voat is still growing and under development?
I am thankful for moderators who help keep Voat spam-free and I respect your work. I really do. I started working on automoderator for comments and submissions and your job will be made much easier when this is implemented, but for the time being, moderators need to relax and focus on removing spam and eventual illegal content. If I submit a new post and it gains some traction (hundreds of comments, views and upvoats), and my post gets removed because I broke a rule by forgetting to include a question mark in my submission title... well, I would be pissed. People take removal of their comments and submissions very seriously and moderators must think twice before removing stuff if they want to avoid offending users. Voat has a ranking process where time acts as gravity and older posts will eventually fall off the frontpage. Voat also has automatic public moderation logs and everything you remove will still be visible in these modlogs and your actions may be questioned by the community, just like what happened yesterday.
This action can be reverted if /askvoat mods can convince us that the issue has been dealt with or if some other, less restrictive community takes over.
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FitMachoNaziAtheist ago
Went back to reddit, voat is no different.
HomerSimpson ago
Yeah. Let's just let what happened on reddit happen here...
Firetail ago
Great suggestion.
Atko ago
I wasn't aware that it was abandoned. Thanks, I'll discuss it with @puttitout.
Boxlighter ago
Ill run it, Atko. With an iron
bonerfist.Krael ago
Does nobody else see the irony of Voat considering an outright hostile admin takeover of a sub?
The head moderator disappeared. Ok, pick one of the active mods to take over. Problem 1 is solved. You don't like how they're approaching the situation? Delist them as a default. Problem 2 solved.
Kicking them out of what is unarguably their subverse sets a really fucking bad precedent, in my opinion. What happens next? You disagree with how I'm running /v/Skyforge and I suddenly find myself taken off the modlist? If someone has a different idea for how a subverse should be handled, they can make their own. Isn't that the entire point of subverses in the first place?
EDIT: Seems my radical suggestion of "don't steal subverses from people" turned out to be a little controversial.
CapitalJusticeWarior ago
The admins should always be concerned with what goes on in the Default subs
Krael ago
He says in the thread titled "AskVoat is no longer a default sub". Seems like the admins already figured out a solution for this problem.
heroicdanger ago
Subverses don't belong to the mods. This is the most important realization that people have to have.
They belong to the community, the mods are members of that community volunteering to do the dirty work for its betterment.
Mattk50 ago
Steal? is it your property? is it your home where you think you have the wherewithal to lord your idiotic rules over people? Or is it supposed to be a community owned by the users.
Broc_Lia ago
It's a community owned by the users. This status cannot be maintained if any larger group can move in, set up camp, and demand to be given power. The entire site will become part of the fempire.
Mattk50 ago
The difference here is that in one case, we have the "community" of brigaders trying to change rules. in the other, the mods are changing the rules the community arent used to. Maybe that distinction can be used as grounds for admin intervention?
Broc_Lia ago
Any situation where the admins need to get personally involved is a failure of the site. It's not sustainable as a long term solution, it involves subjective opinion rather than set in stone rules and systems and it's bound to piss off whichever side is slighted in every instance. Activist admins siding with their preferred outcomes was a large part of the problem on reddit, i'd prefer not to see it happen here.
codyave ago
You know what else sets a bad precedent? Mods acting like dicks to users in a default sub.
Broc_Lia ago
And you know what sets a really good precedent? People moving to a new sub because their mods are dicks.
synergy ago
he de-listed it from default he didn't steal it.
Krael ago
You're the second person who didn't read the two comments above mine. Please read them again.
synergy ago
no I read it. It's not a hostile admin take over. And no they don't "own" the sub, the community does.
Krael ago
Someone recommended a hostile takeover. Atko said him and Putt would discuss it. This thread started as a direct response to the comment by Atko.
Read them again, please.
synergy ago
no one recommended a hostile takeover they said the sub was abandoned and that's when he said he'll look into it.
Krael ago
Read.
It.
Again.
synergy ago
yes I did read it I think you're the one who needs to read it again. it has no owner right now, there are mods but no owner. it said assign new owners, atko can give it to the current mods if he decides to or even someone else. The owner of the sub has been MIA for a month+
InnocentBystander ago
I'll argue that. They did not create it. They did not build it up. She just walked into an.existing sub with an existing community and tried to ruthlessly push it toward her politics.
She has added nothing, and created nothing. She has no claim.
Krael ago
So give it to one of the other mods.
InnocentBystander ago
That's a fair solution. Personally I am hoping they act responsibly and fix it themselves without admin interference. She should step down, or be pitched out by the other kids.
Failing that, we should just move on to /v/askvoat2. I think the admins have done the right thing by removing it from the front page, but leaving the sub to sort itself out, or die, on its own.
But saying the sub belongs to her is just wrong. She has done nothing at all to create it and has only harmed it. It belongs to the users who built it and keep it going.
Mattk50 ago
An ultimate solution would be to normalize the "numbering" of subreddits. Perhaps a system where there can be multiple "/v/askvoat"s but which one appears when a user goes to that link is determined by user setting, and there is always a meta discussion section built in so people can move to other sub-subverses without losing the important name. The one which shows up by default can be defined by the active users in the past month, or whether its a default subverse.
This would be hellish to code.
dragon_oats ago
It's easy, just don't censor discussions. Follow the spirit of progressive conversation. Atko is promoting your ability to express yourself without fear. Are you going to ban or delete conversations that are relevant to your sub? If not, quit being a tool.
White_Raven ago
I'd love to agree with you, but the point is you aren't creating something for yourself when you make a new sub, you are creating a community that you happen to have started. Once it grows to a certain size (and it could be argued that even 1 or 2 subscribers is enough) it's not "your" little space, it's a community that you moderate. That's why the position is called "moderator" and not "owner". It's not your sub, it didn't start as your sub, and you will never own the sub.
Broc_Lia ago
That's all wonderful and flowery, but "community" is an amorphous and ill defined group. Who is the the community? The subscribers? Anyone with more than 20 ccp? Anyone who's hit the front page of the sub? No matter what definition you take, giving more power to the community will make it vulnerable to infiltration and coups. Dictatorial mods are absolutely and strictly necessary, particularly in small subs, to prevent them from being brigaded.
Gone_Private ago
They'll be smart and keep 51%
Krael ago
I edited that comment a couple times, just a heads up in case your comment was focused at something specific in an older version.
EDIT: What the fuck is wrong with you people, I'm letting him know that what he responded to has changed.
Gone_Private ago
People here are very testy. I don't sweat it.
NeptuneRises ago
Some of the lads on my warthunder verse are great. @SmashedFinger @clownz and @biplane. highly recommended.
FitMachoNaziAtheist ago
Went back to reddit, voat is no different.
Rea11yN0tMe ago
Hi, just a heads up, I created the verse v/DeletedAskVoat and added a link to you comment https://voat.co/v/AskVoat/comments/401746/1733058 to the sidebar.