On v/gaming (Voat)

submitted ago by PuttItOut

First off I want to say @heygeorge, this is one is for you! Couldn't have done it without you buddy.

Secondly I want to say I both absolutely love and hate you Voat. Equally. Sometimes at the same exact time, but other times some more than the other. Other times the exact opposite. It just depends. ;)

Yesterday I banned controversial user from v/gaming for being what I now have termed a 'Noid'. A Noid (according to me) is a person that regularly submits content that is low value, low effort, typically downvoted, and has low participation. Often times on purpose.

I banned this user from v/gaming for Spam.

Only one problem… the content was 'technically' on topic (a stretch but for sake of argument I concede). And guess what Voat did? What do you think Voat did? Yeah, that's right, Voat called me out on it. This is the part I hate.

So now we have Putts vs. The Goats and I'm not budging. Headbutts are heard throughout the kingdom. What rule do you cite? Spam? That isn't exactly right! What is spam, what isn't spam? Who says this is spam or that is spam? Spam this, spam that. Spam it all! I'm going back to browse v/all.

But through the smoke, Steam arose and how they enacted a rule to fight the troll. The problem now is this, everyone's a potential misfit.

And this made me love Voat, because it's a legitimate concern, the very merits worthy of wise discern. If I say that's spam, many decades from now what will the definition of spam be then? Think about your children and their children's children. What kind of Voat do you want them to envision? A Voat where much is spam, because that may happen if my stance stands.

So, here we are at the crossroads yet again. There's arguments on both sides, where to begin?

So, good luck Voat. I'll be back when you Goats figure this one out. ;)

Edit:

I'm thinking now...

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clamhurt_legbeard ago

WE LOVE YOU PUTT

I'm going to keep reminding you of this.

frenemy ago

speak for yourself. what he is doing is ethically wrong. he's tidying up the sub just like reddit does. he made up a whole new word just for aged... after he banned him. that's fucked up on a fundamental level.

sbt2160p ago

I hereby declare you a PXLEHDHEH. Tread lightly, friend.

clamhurt_legbeard ago

The sub had no mods and given the current software the only remedy is for the admin to do the modding required of a default sub.

Aged was spamming by posting things the sub is not about specifically to troll users. He's free to post that on any of the loli subs. Posting a porn video of a woman in cosplay belongs in nsfwcosplay.

fusir ago

Then he should do what we would expect of a mod, and only ban for breaking an actual rule. @puttitout.

clamhurt_legbeard ago

He banned for spam based on the feelings of the users he talked to and his own feelings.

Decidueye ago

Aged posted lots of lewd fanart for a long time in gaming without running afoul of spam rules. Putt should've made the changed interpretation of the spam rule regarding lewd fanart public before banning, not as ex post facto.

clamhurt_legbeard ago

He wasn't banned for "lewd fan art". He was banned for spam.

Decidueye ago

That spam was the fan art he posted.

clamhurt_legbeard ago

Which is why he got banned.

Don't spam.

Decidueye ago

Fan art was never considered for spam violations in the two years he posted provocative art of gaming characters on the /v/gaming until Putt dropped the ban hammer on Aged without so much as a warning or statement of change in the spam guidelines.

clamhurt_legbeard ago

Did you know other people were objecting for a while because they were downvoting him and telling him to stop?

Did you know they specifically called putt in because there were no mods and downvotes weren't working?

This is a non-issue anyway, we're about to be able to change rules and remove mods by voting.

Decidueye ago

Did you know other people were objecting for a while because they were downvoting him and telling him to stop?

Yeah. I was one of the ones downvoting when I came across his posts. They can tell him to stop for all they want, just as he could post what he posted. That questioning should be examined in great caution, for one day it could apply to all the users making posts about race.

Did you know they specifically called putt in because there were no mods and downvotes weren't working?

Since Aged wasn't banned for vote manipulation, then there were other users on /v/gaming who were upvoting his content.

This is a non-issue anyway, we're about to be able to change rules and remove mods by voting.

Dead fucking wrong. Bans should never be ex post facto. Mods may hold their own interpretation of spam differing from yours. The spam guideline will continue to be an issue unless it becomes more specific.

clamhurt_legbeard ago

The spam guideline will continue to be an issue

Until we can vote out mods, after which they will be very cautious.

It's a non-issue.

frenemy ago

i disagree with your assessment. so where do we turn to now? there doesn't seem to be any guiding principle. free speech would be a good one, but that's not important anymore. a man can dream, right?

clamhurt_legbeard ago

We're about to be able to remove and add mods via voting.

The problem will become a non-issue.

frenemy ago

it's an issue RIGHT FUCKING NOW. how do i know these new mods won't just follow putts lead and start banning whatever they don't like? there's zero reason at this point to think that won't happen.

clamhurt_legbeard ago

Because you and the rest of the users can remove them via voting them out through the software.

They do what the userbase wants or they get removed.

frenemy ago

that's even worse. pure mob rule. fuck that. it won't work. someone has to guide with principal. i was told that principle was free speech. putt was that guardian. but now, even he has forgotten what really made this place grow. the freedom to post whatever we thought. this will have a major chilling effect on the whole site.

clamhurt_legbeard ago

the dictator isn't doing what i want!!!

It's ok, we're about to have pure democracy.

wtf noes i need a dictator!!!

lol

frenemy ago

guardian. not dictator. you have the wrong job in your head.

pure democracy is stupid. socrates and plato sum it up rather nicely. source

"Plato would later describe the trial of Socrates as a doctor being persecuted by a pastry chef and judged by a jury of children. Still, Socrates was not the only man to be executed in such a manner."

this was the description socrates used to illustrate democracy.

clamhurt_legbeard ago

If I'm giving a talk and you come in and start screaming like a child, you are not exercising your free speech, you are destroying my free speech.

Children are free to scream in the playground. Aged can post loli elsewhere, but he was filling the board with the wrong content, which is why users called putt in to begin with.

You're mad putt didn't do what YOU wanted, and you're also mad we will soon have a way to handle that and prevent the issue of abandoned subs from ever occuring again.

At this point you're just pouting. Look at the posts you made, screaming in all caps....

frenemy ago

the users didn't call putt. this has been a pointed campaign by theoldsones. it's been going on for a month. check out v/ProtectVoat if you don't believe me.

frenemy ago

and he did it badly by the rules i have come to understand this place is run on over the past 4 years.

clamhurt_legbeard ago

You just gonna skip over how wrong you just got shown to be?

lol

frenemy ago

that was after a month of pushing. are you dense? check the dates.

clamhurt_legbeard ago

You have no coherent thoughts. I'm sure ONE OF US is.

frenemy ago

enjoy what voat is about to become. you deserve it.

clamhurt_legbeard ago

I am!