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truthwoke33 ago

What are your plans to mitigate user abuse e.g. creating a secret CP sub or a harassment sub?

draaaak ago

private communication should be relegated to a different platform, as it is the antithesis of a public forum for open discussion.

Exactly this.

Crensch ago

So, no more direct messages that nobody else can see?

draaaak ago

Private subs and direct messaging are obviously not the same thing. If for whatever reason you think they are, then why don't we just stick with direct messaging and not worry about creating a private sub feature?

Crensch ago

They very obviously are exactly what you were talking about. Your comment was very specifically about private communication here.

What is the difference between multiple private Communications between users, and a functional forum type place for those Communications?

draaaak ago

A. That wasn't my comment, I was agreeing with another user's comment.

B. One is private messages between individual users, and the other is a private forum. You just said it yourself..

They're functionally different types of private communication.

Crensch ago

A. That wasn't my comment, I was agreeing with another user's comment.

Your comment agreeing exactly with the words makes those words part of your comment. Are you going to act like a fucking Jew and keep arguing these stupid trivial points, or are you going to answer the question?

draaaak ago

I have answered your question by explaining the differences between private messaging and private forums. You just don't like my answer. Stop being such a dense faggot.

Crensch ago

You just did. My comment was from earlier. Stop trying to make it seem like I'm ignoring something that you've already said.

Also, your explanation was, more people seeing private messages equals bad. Congratulations, you're a little retarded.

draaaak ago

Stop trying to make it seem like I'm ignoring something that you've already said.

I don't have to try to make it seem that way:

your explanation was, more people seeing private messages equals bad.

That was never my explanation, or my argument.

Crensch ago

That's exactly what you are doing. Okay so if that's not your position, then the Aesthetics is bad. It looks different, so it's bad.

draaaak ago

None of my comments have been about aesthetics, they have all focused on the functional differences between private messaging and private subs. I also haven't yet made one single argument supporting my position that private subs are a bad idea for this site. But it sounds like that's something you want, so here goes:

Allowing for private subs makes it possible for users to put the whole site at risk. Here's an example of how that could play out...

Someone, using a VPN to protect himself, creates a new account, then they create a private sub with a seemingly harmless name. This person allows no other users to join the sub, it's just that one dude. Then, this one dude posts several hundred links to CP, which no one else will know about, because these private posts won't show up on v/all. He waits a month or two, and then makes it public. Still, no one else on voat will see the posts from this sub because they are old and have no traffic or voats. Then the user reports voat, because of these posts, to the FBI. They investigate and find that hundreds of links to CP have been on voat for months, and no one has even tried to stop it. This sort of thing is only possible when there is no community oversight of the activity in a sub.

Another way private subs could hurt voat is if they are used to organize criminal/terrorist activity.

Literal shills would love private subs too, for what should be obvious reasons.

These sorts of things are still possible, although on a much smaller scale, with private messaging, but pose a much smaller threat to the safety of the site as a whole compared to if they were carried out in a private sub format.

Crensch ago

None of my comments have been about aesthetics, they have all focused on the functional differences between private messaging and private subs. I also haven't yet made one single argument supporting my position that private subs are a bad idea for this site. But it sounds like that's something you want, so here goes:

Literally, your argument has been:

A -> B. OK! A -> C. OK! A -> D. OK!

A -> Place where B C and D can see BAD.

It's nothing but a change in the way the words are placed and viewed. Aesthetics.

Allowing for private subs makes it possible for users to put the whole site at risk. Here's an example of how that could play out...

All right, listening.

Someone, using a VPN to protect himself, creates a new account, then they create a private sub with a seemingly harmless name. This person allows no other users to join the sub, it's just that one dude. Then, this one dude posts several hundred links to CP, which no one else will know about, because these private posts won't show up on v/all.

All links in private subverses are broken.

Next.

He waits a month or two, and then makes it public.

Subverses get an either-or at the beginning, and cannot change later.

Next.

Still, no one else on voat will see the posts from this sub because they are old and have no traffic or voats. Then the user reports voat, because of these posts, to the FBI. They investigate and find that hundreds of links to CP have been on voat for months, and no one has even tried to stop it. This sort of thing is only possible when there is no community oversight of the activity in a sub.

No other ways to solve that, eh?

Another way private subs could hurt voat is if they are used to organize criminal/terrorist activity.

Already can be used for that.

Next.

Literal shills would love private subs too, for what should be obvious reasons.

No. Why?

Basically, private subs enable users to violate the rules of the site because they can operate with no oversight, and this puts all of voat at risk.

Oh no! TEXT might be there!

These sorts of things are still possible, although on a much smaller scale, with private messaging, but pose a much smaller threat to the safety of the site as a whole compared to if they were carried out in a private sub format.

Remember when you owned this:

private communication should be relegated to a different platform, as it is the antithesis of a public forum for open discussion.

?

Are you also against private messages?

draaaak ago

Are you also against private messages?

No.

Remember when you owned this:

Remember when the context of that had nothing to do with private direct messages, but instead was specifically about private subs?

Oh no! TEXT might be there!

Stop being a faggot.

No. Why?

Shills organizing against the rest of voat.. no potential for abuse or harm there...

Already can be used for that.

Except when a sub is private, there is no potential for community oversight.. which is my whole point, which you seem to have completely missed, somehow... amazing..

No other ways to solve that, eh?

Maybe, but not without violating the privacy of the sub. Either way, the risk is still there, and needs to be considered. What also needs to be considered, is the potential for private subs to be created en mass so as to overwhelm the staff that may be tasked with monitoring private sub activity. As it stands currently, content posted to the site is monitored by the entire userbase, and can be dealt with in a distributed manner through reporting, downvoating, and psa type alerting of other users. Once you allow for private subs, you lose all community oversight, and put the oversight burden entirely on voat employees, which could be very costly, and a big problem.

Subverses get an either-or at the beginning, and cannot change later.

Maybe, but the system hasn't been implemented yet, so you don't know that this is how it would work. Even then, the sub wouldn't need to be public to harbor links to CP, and would thus still put the whole site in danger.

All links in private subverses are broken.

Again, you don't know that because the system hasn't been implemented.

Literally, your argument has been:

A -> B. OK! A -> C. OK! A -> D. OK!

A -> Place where B C and D can see BAD.

It's nothing but a change in the way the words are placed and viewed. Aesthetics.

Nope. But it clearly doesn't matter how many times I explain it, you will continue to refuse to understand.

Crensch ago

Remember when the context of that had nothing to do with private direct messages, but instead was specifically about private subs?

Remember when they're effectively the same thing? And one already exists?

draaaak ago

Remember when they're effectively the same thing?

Remember when I explained that they weren't the same, but you completely disregarded my explanation because you didn't like it?

Crensch ago

You know what? Let me help you:

private communication should be relegated to a different platform, as it is the antithesis of a public forum for open discussion.

Exactly this.

There was no caveat to your words, nor his. PRIVATE COMMUNICATION should be relegated to a different platform.

What are direct messages?

Private subs and direct messaging are obviously not the same thing. This discussion is not about direct messaging, so what's the point of conflating the two? Sure they're both private, but they're a very different type of private.

You claim this as if it's self-evident. It is not. In fact, the opposite is true.

Private communication Not private communication
Direct Message X
Private Subverse X

Then you go on to claim this:

A. That wasn't my comment, I was agreeing with another user's comment.

When you quote someone and say "Exactly this.", you are owning those words. They become your words because you agree with them exactly.

B. One is private messages between individual users, and the other is a private forum. You just said it yourself..

Both of the points you made here apply to both forms of communication; your argument is null, because you showed no difference between them.

Are these both private messages between individual users? Private messages. Between individual users. And the other is a forum. OH NO!

They're functionally different types of private communication.

So the form. The aesthetics of how the information is conveyed. "Oh, it's not a PM, it's a FORUM!"

I have answered your question by explaining the differences between private messaging and private forums.

This is you declaring that you have done something when you clearly have not. This is your level.

You just don't like my answer. Stop being such a dense faggot.

I'm dense. Because you cannot explain how having private messages, between individual users, in a format that shows all the users meant to receive the message easily, is somehow functionally different than multiple direct messages. Got it.

This is why:

I don't have to try to make it seem that way:

Apparently, you do, because your argument is nigger-tier.

That was never my explanation, or my argument.

Your argument was so stupid, I tried to give you a way out. You couldn't accept my olive branch, because you're too stupid to see that the only halfway legitimate argument is that the private forums make multiple eyes on the communication easier.

I'm the dense one?

None of my comments have been about aesthetics

They all are. Every one of them. DM fine, forum not fine. Why? Because of its format. What is a format?

they have all focused on the functional differences between private messaging and private subs.

None. Convenience, at the very best. No functional difference that could support your position.

I also haven't yet made one single argument supporting my position that private subs are a bad idea for this site. But it sounds like that's something you want, so here goes:

You've made arguments that the two are different, and failed. You've even made arguments about aesthetics without even realizing it.

Maybe you should consider lurking.

And you got absolutely destroyed here on your position on private subs. You got destroyed in the OP you were commenting under, words written long before your comment. How embarrassing.

@kevdude @Trigglypuff @Empress @srayzie @Vindicator

Not sure who this guy is, but he argues like a fucking kike.

draaaak ago

Well look at you, calling in back up. Adorable. "Oh noes! draaaak is standing his ground and defending his position! Only a kike would ever do such a thing! I needs helps!"

Pathetic.

You know what? Let me help you:

Thanks, but no thanks. I don't need your help, which, is in fact not help, but merely condescending cockery.

There was no caveat to your words, nor his. PRIVATE COMMUNICATION should be relegated to a different platform.

CONTEXT MATTERS

The context was not private direct messaging, it was private subs. THAT'S WHAT PUTT'S WHOLE FUCKING POST WAS ABOUT. I tried to make this clear for you right away in response to your first comment, you even quoted it just now:

Private subs and direct messaging are obviously not the same thing. This discussion is not about direct messaging, so what's the point of conflating the two? Sure they're both private, but they're a very different type of private.

But despite you just now quoting my statement, you've still somehow managed to continue acting like a faggot, and are insisting that DMs are the same as private subs. Which of course, they aren't.

You claim this as if it's self-evident. It is not. In fact, the opposite is true.

What is self-evident is that, despite them both being private forms of communication, they are still different types of private communication. This was my whole point, which flew right over your head.

When you quote someone and say "Exactly this.", you are owning those words. They become your words because you agree with them exactly.

No they don't. I was highlighting the part of the comment that I agreed with. It still wasn't my comment. Regardless, I still supported my position more than sufficiently. Maybe not sufficiently enough for you, but maybe you're not as smart as you think you are.

Both of the points you made here apply to both forms of communication; your argument is null, because you showed no difference between them.

Private messages between two individuals, messages that remain in these user's inboxes for eternity, are not equivalent to the sort of private forum that was being discussed.

Private messages. Between individual users. And the other is a forum.

You sort of act like you get it, but I can tell you're just being cheeky, leading me to suspect that you really don't understand the difference.

I said:

They're functionally different types of private communication.

FUNCTIONALLY

And somehow you misinterpret this as meaning merely "form", and therefore merely "aesthetics". There's something wrong with you.

I'm dense.

Yes.

Because you cannot explain how having private messages, between individual users, in a format that shows all the users meant to receive the message easily, is somehow functionally different than multiple direct messages. Got it.

I did, but you didn't get it. That's not my problem. ...you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink...

Apparently, you do, because your argument is nigger-tier.

No no no, it's your comprehension of my argument that is nigger-tier, which is why you can't figure it out, and continue to misrepresent it.

Your argument was so stupid

Projection. You only think it's stupid because you failed to understand it.

I tried to give you a way out.

No, you didn't. But even if you did, I wouldn't care, because my argument was sound from the beginning, and I have no reason to take your "way out".

you're too stupid to see that the only halfway legitimate argument is that the private forums make multiple eyes on the communication easier.

Still misrepresenting my argument. lol and I'm the stupid one. Much projection.

They all are. Every one of them. DM fine, forum not fine. Why? Because of its format. What is a format?

Nope, because the differences I described were not aesthetic differences, they were functional differences. Regardless, I went it to plenty of detail on why I think private subs are worse than private messages in another comment. But I guess you're just ignoring that now. Cool.

None. Convenience, at the very best. No functional difference that could support your position.

^^Good example of you being dense.

You've made arguments that the two are different, and failed.

No, they didn't fail, you just didn't like them. You thought my arguments were about why I didn't like the idea of private subs, but the whole time I was just explaining how private messaging and private subs were functionally different. This is what I mean by you failing to understand my arguments, ffs, you couldn't even understand what was being argued.

You've even made arguments about aesthetics without even realizing it.

No, I didn't, you simply misinterpreted my arguments as being about aesthetics. Just as you misinterpreted my arguments as being about "more eyeballs on private messages equals bad".

Maybe you should consider lurking.

Bitch, I've been here just as long as you. Maybe you should consider not overestimating your own intelligence.

And you got absolutely destroyed here on your position on private subs. You got destroyed in the OP you were commenting under, words written long before your comment. How embarrassing.

You never destroyed me. You may want to think you did, but sorry, you didn't. And of course you didn't, as I said before, you can't destroy an argument you fail to understand. And I know you don't understand my argument, because when you try to repeat it back to me, you get it completely wrong. I'm not embarrassed, not at all, instead, I now think you're just a low IQ faggot. I didn't think this before this ridiculous argument... I also just lost a boat load of respect for you after you pinged for backup, SBBH style, because you're so stupid that you think I argue like a kike.

And with that, I bid you good night. I have much better things to do on a Friday evening that converse with a dumb dipshit like yourself.

Crensch ago

No, I didn't, you simply misinterpreted my arguments as being about aesthetics. Just as you misinterpreted my arguments as being about "more eyeballs on private messages equals bad".

Your argument was literally so stupid that it was the only remotely plausible argument. Let me quote your words for you:

One is private messages between individual users, and the other is a private forum.

BOTH ARE PRIVATE MESSAGES BETWEEN INDIVIDUAL USERS, but the ONLY half-reasonable assumption to be made here is about numbers. But you say your ACTUAL problem is with the FORMAT, apparently, because you specifically state "private forum".

And since you have NOT YET made a statement that delineates the two in any meaningful way beyond the format, then that is all one can be expected to glean from your words.

Bitch, I've been here just as long as you. Maybe you should consider not overestimating your own intelligence.

If you've been paying attention, you'd know I'm more likely to do the opposite. Then again, I suppose even if you were paying attention, at your IQ, you would never notice.

You never destroyed me.

You're the only one who would ever think that.

You may want to think you did, but sorry, you didn't. And of course you didn't, as I said before, you can't destroy an argument you fail to understand.

It's so sad that you can't even understand that I understood more of your position than even you did. How does it feel to be an NPC?

And I know you don't understand my argument, because when you try to repeat it back to me, you get it completely wrong. I'm not embarrassed, not at all, instead, I now think you're just a low IQ faggot. I didn't think this before this ridiculous argument... I also just lost a boat load of respect for you after you pinged for backup, SBBH style, because you're so stupid that you think I argue like a kike.

Why would I give a shit about respect from someone that argues like a Jew?

I ping who I want, when I want, and SBBH are full of good goats that defend Voat and actually make far better arguments than you ever could when they leave their shitposting subverses.

And with that, I bid you good night. I have much better things to do on a Friday evening that converse with a dumb dipshit like yourself.

No, you don't. You'll always be less-than, because you can't even see what I'm showing you in your own arguments, because you refuse to admit when you're wrong.

Sad fucking existence, dude. I can't imagine.

Crensch ago

Well look at you, calling in back up. Adorable.

Oh, look. You're part of that crew, aren't you?

"Oh noes! draaaak is standing his ground and defending his position! Only a kike would ever do such a thing! I needs helps!"

Ask anyone I pinged if I ping people like this for "help". I ping them so they can enjoy when I dismantle someone.

Thanks, but no thanks. I don't need your help, which, is in fact not help, but merely condescending cockery.

You're either too stupid to understand that it's more help than you deserve, or you're paid to pretend you don't understand.

CONTEXT MATTERS

WORDS MATTER. DEFINITIONS. BLANKET STATEMENTS TAKEN AT FACE VALUE ARE YOURS TO CAVEAT.

And when you don't, and you don't correct yourself when shown otherwise, you make an ass of yourself.

Also, context is just one facet in myriad failures you cannot seem to escape from.

The context was not private direct messaging, it was private subs. THAT'S WHAT PUTT'S WHOLE FUCKING POST WAS ABOUT. I tried to make this clear for you right away in response to your first comment, you even quoted it just now:

Correct yourself then. Your words were a blanket statement.

But despite you just now quoting my statement, you've still somehow managed to continue acting like a faggot, and are insisting that DMs are the same as private subs. Which of course, they aren't.

And you've not shown the last sentence to be true. You just claim it as self-evident.

What is self-evident is that, despite them both being private forms of communication, they are still different types of private communication. This was my whole point, which flew right over your head.

Effectively no different, the only difference being what? (Hint: aesthetics/convenience)

No they don't. I was highlighting the part of the comment that I agreed with.

Look at the little Jew pretending agreeing - EXACTLY - with those words doesn't mean he owns them. Top kek.

It still wasn't my comment. Regardless, I still supported my position more than sufficiently. Maybe not sufficiently enough for you, but maybe you're not as smart as you think you are.

You didn't support anything. You tried to delineate between the two forms of communication and failed miserably. Both descriptions could work for both forms of communication.

What, exactly, do you believe you did right here?

Private messages between two individuals, messages that remain in these user's inboxes for eternity, are not equivalent to the sort of private forum that was being discussed.

-Private messages between (more than) two individuals, messages that remain in the subverse for eternity, are equivalent.-

Wow.

"Inbox is SO different than the subverse! Look at me everyone! The UI for the text is different! Didn't I do good! I showed that mean Crensch that he was wrong!"

Are you Jewish, draaak? Because your IQ, and what you see as "winning" are both nigger-tier; your dishonesty is Jew tier.

You sort of act like you get it, but I can tell you're just being cheeky, leading me to suspect that you really don't understand the difference.

Oh, I get the completely irrelevant difference of format. It's a nigger-tier position to hold. Make a statement about the functionality of the inbox that I couldn't make about a private subverse. You can't. Because the function is to convey private text from one party to another. Guess what? Everything the inbox can do, a forum can do, and vice-versa. The ONLY difference is the FORMAT/LOOK/AESTHETICS, and the EASE with which things can be done on the subverse.

You sort of act like you get it...

No, you don't. You're entirely too stupid to get it. The two formats of communication are EFFECTIVELY, FUNCTIONALLY, and FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, the same. The only difference is their efficiency with multiple recipients of this information... and what was the other one? OH YEAH, AESTHETICS.

FUNCTIONALLY

And somehow you misinterpret this as meaning merely "form", and therefore merely "aesthetics". There's something wrong with you.

How fucking stupid are you? I have destroyed FUNCTIONALLY multiple times already, you fucking chromosome heavyweight champion.

I did, but you didn't get it. That's not my problem. ...you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink...

You can repeat a cliche, but you can't think of a way to delineate the two forms of private messaging outside of the ways I've outline for you.

No no no, it's your comprehension of my argument that is nigger-tier, which is why you can't figure it out, and continue to misrepresent it.

I haven't misrepresented shit. You haven't even realized the implications of your own words, and that is a personal problem I've nothing to do with.

Projection. You only think it's stupid because you failed to understand it.

I understood more about your own argument than you did. You're slowly realizing it, but you refuse to admit it; don't worry, it'll sink in someday.

No, you didn't. But even if you did, I wouldn't care, because my argument was sound from the beginning, and I have no reason to take your "way out".

Literally destroyed from every angle. Your premises were all false. You couldn't even delineate the two forms of communication in a way that effectively separates them in a way that any claim you made wouldn't either apply to both, or hadn't already been demolished in OP.

Still misrepresenting my argument. lol and I'm the stupid one. Much projection.

Yeah, it's silly how fantastically unequipped you are to be having this conversation.

Nope, because the differences I described were not aesthetic differences, they were functional differences. Regardless, I went it to plenty of detail on why I think private subs are worse than private messages in another comment. But I guess you're just ignoring that now. Cool.

I'm ignoring that?

https://voat.co/v/Voat/3009940/16522096

The implementation doesn't have to be retarded, moron. Every "point" you made was embarrassingly low-quality. I look back at your words and I feel fremdschamen for you. How do you live with yourself?

Do you want me to go back and respond to every one of your fantastically stupid points? I can do that. I had already answered every pitiful argument you put up previously, but I suppose I can do it again if you haven't had enough.

^^Good example of you being dense.

Good example of you not understanding that words have meaning.

No, they didn't fail, you just didn't like them.

I could apply them to both formats of communication you retarded mongrel. Which means they are null as arguments the two are different. Which means you failed.

You thought my arguments were about why I didn't like the idea of private subs, but the whole time I was just explaining how private messaging and private subs were functionally different. This is what I mean by you failing to understand my arguments, ffs, you couldn't even understand what was being argued.

I understood that you couldn't accomplish even that. I also understood that you were, in fact, about how you didn't like the idea of private subs, since the first fucking text you quoted was about exactly that.

Holy fucking balls your nose is growing, Rabbi Pinocchio.

Vindicator ago

You should start a sub and teach remedial logic. You could give awards to goats who post examples of flawed thinking and explain where it went wrong: the Golden Crensch (I started to say "gold stars" and then realized that totally wouldn't work). ;-)

Crensch ago

I like the idea, and appreciate the compliment.

I never learned any of this classically, so I wouldn't really know where to begin. I just see something is wrong and sink my teeth in.

Vindicator ago

I never learned any of this classically

All the better reason to do it. Raw talent is always improved by disciplined practice.

Vindicator ago

and sink my teeth in

Lol.

Crensch ago

Remember when I explained that they weren't the same, but you completely disregarded my explanation because you didn't like it?

Remember when your explanation was completely demolished? Don't worry, everyone else can see what's going on here if they choose to read it; maybe one of them can explain how you're wrong.

draaaak ago

Remember when your explanation was completely demolished?

Nope, because you never actually "demolished" it. Instead, you repeatedly misrepresented my arguments as being "more eyeballs on private messages equals bad". You can't demolish an argument you don't understand.

Don't worry, everyone else can see what's going on here if they choose to read it; maybe one of them can explain how you're wrong.

Yet, no one has, including you. Maybe, it's because I'm not wrong.