Voat has received a DMCA takedown request on behalf of Black Rifle Coffee Company® regarding the following user account: @BlackRifleCoffeeCo.
The peculiar situation with this DMCA request is that the user @BlackRifleCoffeeCo permanently deleted their profile on 2018-10-10. Majority of the time this would suffice to satisfy a company like Black Rifle Coffee Company®, but they have persisted to have this user account completely wiped off of Voat (ghosted).
The problem we have at Voat with fulfilling this request, is that we don't have any way to permanently ghost an account. Since we value transparency, it simply isn't possible with the code we've written unless we go in and 'spez' the data itself.
In full disclosure, it appears this account was not affiliated with Black Rifle Coffee Company®, so they have every right to want it disassociated with their trademark. The unfortunate thing is that when I realized who this company was, I attempted to contact the CEO personally to discuss the difficulties with this on our end. I just figured, naively, that a 2nd Amendment company (BRCC) and a 1st Amendment company (Voat) could work out an issue the old-fashioned way. Needless to say, I was never able to 'get past the receptionist' so to speak.
The reason I am bringing this up is for a couple reasons.
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We at Voat have gotten used to a free-for-all website, but that isn't actually true. We have to operate within the confines of the law, and DMCA takedown requests are a law we have to follow.
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Any subverse or username that infringes on a trademark has to be taken down if we receive a valid DMCA request from the trademark owner.
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Voat will publicly post all DMCA takedown requests in which we modify content (data) to satisfy.
Black Rifle Coffee Company®'s DMCA request to CloudFlare
Now to figure out how to do this.
If you guys have any ideas on how we can satisfy DMCA requests like this and still log that they occurred, I’m all ears. These situations are likely to only increase.
Edit 1
Voat has reluctantly complied with this request. Access to 'claimed infringement' has been disabled.
Edit 2
Since very few read:
TL;DR: Account was already wiped as user had deleted the account months ago (i.e. Voat did NOT delete any submissions or comments). Actions against Voat continued despite this. Voat made the account 'disappear' after posting this submission in order to fully comply with request.
In this particular situation, given the context and all things considered, this is the best option for Voat.
view the rest of the comments →
TheBuddha ago
Let me see if I understand this correctly. I'd ask via PM but I don't think adding to your stuffed inbox is the best solution.
They are using DMCA to assert trademark infringement? If so, I am willing to throw a few lawyer hours at it. I'm not sure DMCA covers trademark and this may open them to a counter suit for misrepresentation. I'd have to have someone check, as I am not a lawyer.
PuttItOut ago
...
You're hired! ;)
TheBuddha ago
Alright, quick update.
This is not a DMCA takedown notice. This is a trademark infringement notice. Had it been a DMCA, they'd open themselves up to liability of §512(f).
I'll paraphrase the phone conversation.
Your options are to file a "cease and desist" and be ready to fight it in court (unlikely) under a few different defenses, including affirmative defense and that it never infringed to begin with.
Your other option is to delete the offending material and move on.
If you wish to file a cease and desist, let me know and I'll get you a template you can use. They're trivial to fill out and do not require any expenses on your part, though you'd want to mail them with a receipt to prove they got the letter.
If you are unable to figure out the template, hit me up by PM and I'll fill one in for you and have them take a glance at it.
totes_magotes ago
Again, this is exactly what I've been saying. They are protecting their brand and the only correct first course of action is a legal takedown notice and that it's up to the service provide/third party to determine what the correct course of action is.
goatboy ago
Thos is good. As a practical matter, the only rights that exist are the rights that are asserted.
dieusor ago
You mentioned “PM”, I assume = private message. Is there a private message function on Voat?
TheBuddha ago
Yes. Click on a username. The button to send a message is on the right.
BlueDrache ago
Click Username
Click "Send Message"
dieusor ago
Could just be me, but I don’t see that option (on mobile).
BlueDrache ago
Have you tried looking under the "hamburger menu"?
dieusor ago
Took me a while to figure out what the “hamburger menu” is, but I got it. Only took a fews years. Thanks.
SearchVoatBot ago
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kneo24 ago
@Puttitout, you reeeeeeeaaaaallllly should think about a badge for this guy. Just saiyan.
WeekendBaker ago
“Internet Lawyer”
Seventh_Jim ago
Seconding this.
C_Corax ago
You are a gem, you know that right :)
TheBuddha ago
I do what I can. Besides, this is the firm that my buddy is a full partner with. The guy that was driving the car? He works there.
C_Corax ago
lol yeah I kinda guessed that.
I understand if Adobe doesn't want other graphic manipulation software to be called 'Photoshop' or 'Photoshoppers' or the same with Kleenex or Coca Cola, but a coffee company that doesn't want a forum account that isn't shifting anything named after them? I don't know if there's a precedence, but I suspect they will be laughed out of court if it comes to that. An expense Voat absolute doesn't need though..
TheBuddha ago
It's almost certainly not a trademark infringement. Voat does no business in the areas for which the trademark is assigned and the use of the name should not confuse a reasonable person into thinking that they represent the trademark holder. That'd be decided in court, but it's unlikely to ever get that far. A motion for dismissal would be the first step any good lawyer would take, should it reach that point. Given that it's pretty brazenly not a trademark infringement, a judge is likely to grant the dismissal.
But, courts can be fickle. So, they may choose to hear it, erring on the side of caution. Just a C&D should be adequate and should be enough to show that Voat will assert their rights. Again, it's never set in stone and courts are fickle. There's no fucking way a 'reasonable person' would assume one is the other and there's no way they'd be watering down their mark.
Trademark must be defended to keep it, but this is just frivolous.
Mumbleberry ago
You rock.
TheBuddha ago
It's not a problem. I wasn't doing anything better today. I figure advice from real lawyers is a god idea. If need be, I can write the C&D myself, now that I know what to include. It doesn't violate trademark and their request is frivolous.
MrWicked ago
I vote for the cease and desist. If they decide to take it to court I would throw some money on a lawyer.
TheBuddha ago
From the phone call, there's not much chance that they'd win in court. So, it's unlikely to see a courtroom, regardless. I can assist with filling out a cease and desist. Hell, I can probably get the firm to write it, if need be. This is the firm that my buddy works at. He owes me! So, I won't even be charged, probably...
Professor_de_la_Paz ago
If you're charged, I'm sure more than a few of us will kick in to help cover the bill.
TheBuddha ago
I don't need money, but thanks for the offer.
MrWicked ago
It would probably be best coming from a law firm. If @puttitout doesn't have a lawyer yet he will need to get one eventually. As voat grows so will the legal issues.
TheBuddha ago
You can, or you can just send it yourself. I've filed all sorts of things, including motions. I can fill out the paperwork to form a LLC, etc...
Err... I'm not a lawyer. I did two summer semesters in a law school, simply because I knew I'd need it. I mostly learned procedure. In law, procedure is very important. If you have that figured out, you can do quite a bit of the work yourself.
TheBuddha ago
I'll send the link and image to their office and I'll see if I can have an answer for you before the end of the business day. I'll cover any costs associated with it.
Ina_Pickle ago
And this Buddha is why you're awesome.
Hand_of_Node ago
He's a National Treasure.
TheBuddha ago
I sent them the links and a couple of questions. No response yet. It'll probably be a little while, but I'm guessing I'll get a quick reply before they close the office and maybe a more detailed reply tomorrow afternoon.
Nadeshda ago
You rock! Literally :D
TheBuddha ago
And, he's now been informed of his realistic options.
How's by you, ma'am?
Nadeshda ago
:)
I am good by you Sir! Yes, it is a day, this is good. Just a quick drop in to see how things are diddling. I see they are diddling just dandy as they always do around the Voat lands.
Man I missed me some Voat these last days. Oh well, how is your bone doing? Lol...
TheBuddha ago
I can use my right leg and walk up a flight of stairs without crutches! That means my entire body weight is supported for the duration of the step!
Sweet!
I've amended my previous goal, which was to run again. Screw running. I don't even like running! Now, I say, "I'm going to dance again, as the spirit moves me." I think that's much more appropriate.
Nadeshda ago
That’s awesome!!!! May we dance one day! Let this be so, in the Spirit! :)
Freagin best day ever now! Thanks for this! Such sweet news to hear, you cheered me right up!
TheBuddha ago
I'm thinking I might take ballroom dancing lessons, when this is over.
I dance all the time, normally. But, I don't know how to dance! I just wiggle with the music. I'm not too old to learn to dance.
Nadeshda ago
That would be great, I would love to take ballroom dancing that would be excellent for your continued physiotherapy going forward. You are pretty smart you know, just saying... :)
TheBuddha ago
I kinda want to learn to foxtrot. I'm a little too old to learn to jitterbug. I'd still give it a try.
Foxtrot is kinda awesome and I've been pondering writing a series for MFU about it.
Also, I have something to find again for you. I saw it and immediately thought of you. Got a few moments?
Nadeshda ago
Check your mail first, okay? :)
TheBuddha ago
This will distract you, maybe... I'll email it. Screw any goats who might be reading this. ;-)
They don't get to enjoy it!
Nadeshda ago
Lolol... I feel a bit special now in a good way! :)
TheBuddha ago
You are special, and not in the Special Olympics way!
Also, you have mail.
TheBuddha ago
Meh... The firm isn't likely to even bill me, given recent events. It's all good. Still no email response, however. No phone call, either.