so last time we talked about how winchester took the concept of a lever action and developed it into one of the most popular rifles of all time
and we heard about how they met a guy named john moses browning
future patron saint of all gun owners
well the next thing they collaborated on was equally groundbreaking
this is the winchester 1897 pump action shotgun
looks pretty normal right
like many old hunting shotguns
except this is the original
the culmination of the pump action even being invented
so lets see how it started
kachunk
ok so remember how the lever action guns were based on a previous design by spencer that wasnt very good
well guess what
spencer made goofy pump actions too lol
this guy has a habit of good ideas with goofy implementation
so it was a new concept and he ended up having this clunky system where the bolt gets shifted all around and up and down
just look at this flippy flap nonsense
so browning took the concept of a sliding pump except made the action way more straightforward
spencer and his partner roper sued but lost
and winchester went on to make a bunch
the first version was the 1893
but was quickly replaced by the 1897
the 93 came out right around the time of smokeless powder becoming popular
and it turned out it wasnt strong enough for the new hot stuff
so winchester strengthened the design and offered a free swap
turn in your 93 and get a 97 free
most people took advantage of this and winchester destroyed all the 93s that got turned in so nobody would blow themselves up
as a result they are super rare
the easiest way to tell the difference is the straight opening on the newer 1897 compared to the extra cutout on the older 1893
there are other minor differences too like how the 93 was chambered for 2 5/8" shells
because size matters lol
so the gun was very successful
they built it for 60 straight and produced over a million of them
and they came in a number of variants too
different barrel lengths and takedown models
and military models with short barrel and heat shield and bayonet lug
and lets talk more about military use heh heh
so this was extremely popular in wwi
you jump in a trench and rapid fire laying waste to everybody
these guns are hammer fired
and they dont have a disconnector
so if you hold the trigger down the gun will go off the instant you slam a new cartridge in
fires five rounds of 00 buckshot as fast as you can pump it
yikes
in fact it was so yikes the germans protested and said they were illegal because they caused so much suffering they violated the hague conventions
and said theyd execute any americans caught with one
and the us is like thats cool
and well execute anybody with a flamethrower
so the germans knew they lost that battle
kinda like how they went on to lose the war hahaha
ok so how these work is pretty simple
the slide has transfer bars and goes backward
moving the bolt back and cocking the hammer
ejecting the spent shell out the top and feeding a new one from the tube underneath
a difference compared to todays guns is the bolt that slides back out of the receiver to cock the action and the big ol lifter that drops down
today everything is usually internal
overall id say theyre not the most available shotgun nowadays but they are out there
looking online im seeing between 800 and 2000 dollars excluding fancy engraved ones
and they work almost as good as modern guns
they were used in so many wars and police forces for many decades
and pump actions in general continue serving in all sorts of roles to this day
all because of the success of the winchester designs of the 1890s
pretty good for something a hundred and thirty years old
pew pew
#click here for previous articles
robot7247 ago
Nice one Clammy, lots of good stuff there.
The 1897 stuck around awhile. If you believe wiki, they made it into the Vietnam war too. Could be, the US bought a lot and piled them high in depots between wars. Digging will turn up a few pics of the 1897 in early WW2 War in the Pacific action.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/world-war-2/images/b/b1/Firearms_shotgun_m97_marine_ww2_375.jpg
One of the few that are. The Stevens 520 will do this, also a JM Browning design. I have one and never tried it with med/high brass loads. With low brass it's video game enjoyable -
https://riaccdn.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/dev_cdn/51/2019.jpg
...and they are all have a takedown feature -
https://images.gunsinternational.com/listings_sub/acc_51511/gi_100612420/100612420_51511_759BEF179D2F15FD.JPG
Amazingly, the Stevens 520 (and variants) don't carry a premium. You can still find great examples cheap but word is getting around on them. They also sold them through Montgomery-Ward, Sears, and other distribution too. If you know what a 520 looks like it doesn't matter what they say on the receiver. Western Field or JC Higgins branded ones pretty common. But all 520s have the Browning hump. They can be dressed up in all sorts of cool ways -
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Fmgm-content%2Fsites%2Farmslist%2Fuploads%2Fposts%2F2016%2F06%2F12%2F5569978_01_stevens_520_30_12_trench_shotg_640.jpg&f=1&nofb=1
clamhurt_legbeard ago
very cool man
thanks for all that added info on another classic
robot7247 ago
You bet, glad my footnotes have a place to be relevant.
I've seen some good deals over the years on 1897s but they were always duck guns with 28-30" barrels. Just can't bring myself to bob one. Original trench & riot barrels will cost you nearly as much as the complete gun. That's how I landed on the Stevens 520s. They were used extensively from WW2 through Vietnam along w/ the 620. They're beasts!
clamhurt_legbeard ago
exactly
short barrels are where its at but you dont cut a century old browning design
i got a mossberg
robot7247 ago
Yep, they aren't making any more of those.
Mossberg pumps are great shotguns. Although released in the 60s, not sure if they made it to Vietnam.
I believe they are current military issue since the 80s though.
clamhurt_legbeard ago
truth
both mossbergs and remingtons are in the military nowadays
and a bit easier to find lol
Zinnsee ago
Quality write up as always. Thanks Clammy
clamhurt_legbeard ago
thank you sir
may your kachunks always be followed by a boom
Zinnsee ago
A big bada boom :)
ManchesterT ago
Shotguns are great because they're essentially death-rays. One hit stops to the torso or head. Huge bloodloss anywhere else.
Spreads decently beyond 15 yards. Can fuck you up through a bulletproof vest due to blunt trauma. Put slugs in, and it'll shoot through both sides of a car.
Reliable as hell (pump-actions). Can be made either concealable (pistol grip) or easy to shoot (buttstock). Can be made to be accurate to 150-200 yards with good slugs, a long barrel and a scope.
Cheap and easy to find. Used ones are just as good. Intimidating. Deafens everyone in the room like a flashbang went off. Can be used as a club when it's empty.
There is basically no downside, to having even a very modest shotgun.
Deshy ago
SOLD!
Thanks for that nice summary, what a solid write-up that ticks all the boxes.
clamhurt_legbeard ago
pistols poke holes
shotguns remove meat from bone
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FlameOn ago
Looks like a nice gun Clammy, got one in your historical gun safe?
clamhurt_legbeard ago
no
i only own two shotguns
a mossberg 500sp 12ga
and a weatherby 20ga
yet both owe everything to the 1893
it invented the practical pump
GreenSlug ago
I want one.
Deshy ago
me too... just because...
thedirtypuma ago
That's such a cool time period for guns. Those spencer pump actions gave me a chuckle.
Great read as always. Thank you.
clamhurt_legbeard ago
dude
so many important developments came then
metallic cartridges
smokeless powder
big things
Deshy ago
I bet they got real good with that...Nice article. Interestingly enough I have never fired a shotgun... I need to fix this, this year... for sure!
2020 is the year of serious advances!
clamhurt_legbeard ago
UMMMMMMMMM
Deshy ago
don't scold me... just cause I have access to one doesn't mean I have fired it yet... sheesh relax...
clamhurt_legbeard ago
my personal choice for defense gun is currently a 12ga
Deshy ago
dude you pack a punch, now how does that fit into your nomex pants if I may ask? ;)
clamhurt_legbeard ago
home defense
the pants have a .380 or .38 j frame lol
Deshy ago
Dude, I have to let @rotteuxx know about these awesome pants, they seem too technical for me understand.
What is clammy talking about dude? The pants have a .38 j frame? phew straight over my head...
clamhurt_legbeard ago
this
Deshy ago
No see picture :/
clamhurt_legbeard ago
mine
Deshy ago
Ah, blond moment, I member!!! Lol... shhh, okay, ummm... yeah! :D
GreenSlug ago
I started with a .22, i was like "yea this is great!" Then i got a .380 and was like "wow thats even better!" Then i got a 12 gauge and i had to reevaluate what the fuck i had been doing with my life prior to having a 12 gauge. It is fucking awesome.
I cant wait til i get a proper caliber rifle...
beece ago
The next step up is a Vepr 12 with a CSS drum mag. You can break a clay, then break the pieces as they split off and head differing directions. Good stuff.
clamhurt_legbeard ago
oooooh
Deshy ago
hmmm, you tempt me mister... I have been thinking I should get more bad arse about stuff, this could be the way, lol
clamhurt_legbeard ago
dude yes
id love to have a pump 22