Judaism with the distinct exception of most Ethiopian and Kararite Jews, follow the Babylonian Talmud which is the Oral Law of Lies of the Pharisees written down, They follow their own books that they themselves wrote, they also follow the evil Zohar and Kabalah which are Satanic Jewish Mysticism.
I'm Messianic Jewish. Kabbalah and Talmud are both bad. Kabbalah is literally Satanic mysticism while Talmud is man's opinion presented as tradition. Most rabbis consider it above the scriptures.
Basically, no Kabbalah since that's Satanic tomfoolery. The Talmud is just man's opinion and is against the prophets, sets itself above the law and God and puts the traditions of man as having greater authority.
The Laws of Moses are mostly valid and should be followed as far as a person's training and ability. The handwritten curses which were against us are done away with and with the new covenant we now can have the right spirit which enables us to truly care for each other and have the spirit of the Messiah.
We are all equal in the eyes of God and no one can claim to be over us but the Messiah who bought and paid for us with his blood sacrifice. The Torah is relevant today and from it we get our inspiration and faith. We make peace with Christians and accept them even when we disagree with them on many points. Beyond that, there's not much of what the churches would consider core beliefs. LIke, if I smoke, no one can judge me. If I drink and it's not to excess, no one is my judge. If I use colorful language, no one is to judge me but I should be accurate in my language and respect other people's feelings and sensibilities. We don't have a pastor as such but some people consider themselves sort of Rabbi and I'm cool with that. It's not like a "rabbi" is the only one who can make aliyah (go forward and speak). I've been asked to but as I was only in study on one topic I begged off until I was ready. My topic was the Law and Love. I have another topic on the family of Yehoshuah and I'm about ready on that also. I've been asked to go forward and give the blessing for the children as they spoke neither Hebrew or Russian so they miss out on stuff and need English.
Curiously, the synagogue where I went didn't find me and convert me. I already had the same beliefs on my own and one day talking to my accountant discovered that we were of the same mind. What a surprise right? We can all study separately but come together and find we have no differences. Why? Because we had no coach or mentor and let the scriptures lead us. Churches have for centuries maintained a grip on the human mind as authority over scripture. That's totally wrong. The scriptures are their own authority and no man has a right to "interpret" things privately and then tell others what it means. Christians will pray and pray and then tell us God told them what it means. Oh? But he neglected to tell me also? How unfair is that?
Of course, there are things we can all agree on. The Ten Commandments for instance. At least until we get to the Sabbath I guess. But, cheating on your wife, stealing from others, lying, murder, these are common sense stuff we should all understand.
I've had family in town and couldn't reply. Some questions I've been meaning to ask you:
accept them even when we disagree with them on many points.
What points do you disagree upon?
Do Messianic jews accept that he rose on the third day from the dead?
How large of a percentage of jews does Messianic jews comprise of the populace?
let the scriptures lead us.
This is interesting as it would call for individual study of the scriptures. Something I know not many Christians do, so they rely on the pastor/priest/preacher. I'm curious how many Messianic jews undertake this? How does one ensure correct ideology/tenants/doctrine/whatever you wish to call it is passed on over the ages?
My topic was the Law and Love.
Tell me more, if you can about this. What law? How does it relate to love?
The Ten Commandments for instance. At least until we get to the Sabbath I guess. But, cheating on your wife, stealing from others, lying, murder, these are common sense stuff we should all understand.
It is common sense to some. Not so much for others, especially the cheating, lying, stealing. People will always find ways to rationalize. Animal instinct often wins over a call to adherence to virtue.
Well, first of all, The Talmud is the work of man. It should have no authority at all. Rabbinic Judaism holds an opposing view which places the Talmud opinions and traditions of man above scriptures. Obviously, this is wrong. The Messiah rebuked the Pharisees directly on this point. There's no nuance at all there.
Then, there is a subset of Jewish people who follow the Kabballah. This is even worse as it's Satanic mysticism. I've read some of the Talmud and believe me, the cherry picked stuff may be incendiary but most of it is just boring nitpicking navel gazing foolishness. Some of it is degrading.
But the Kabbalah , I don't know, I have no interest in that. Like playing with a seance. Dangerous fooling with the forces of evil.
How large of a percentage of jews are comprised of Messianic jews?
I would say, vanishingly small here in the USA. Scattered synagogues here and there which mainstream Judaism is mostly unaware. Russian Jews who've accepted Christ were most of the synagogue I was involved with in Sacramento. Very nice people. We did have some visitors from South America. In Israel there is a much larger following which frightens mainstream Judaism and the Israeli government.
How do Messianic jews view zionism?
The rebirth of Israel as a nation is prophesied. It's all happening according to prophesy. I've done hours of study on this and came to my own understanding before I ever met a Messianic Jewish person or even knew the religion existed. When I first discovered the synagogue I was surprised to find people that believed just like I did. LOL. I thought my beliefs from my studies were mine alone. I came to my beliefs solely from my own study which was painful. I had to acknowledge that everything I had been taught was perverted doctrines. My family was unhappy and eventually just refused to talk to me about it which left us in a spot where there was tension, silence and I just walked away from them.
Anyway, back to your question. If you examine the scriptures carefully, it's prophesied that not only would the Nation of Israel be reconstituted from the diaspora and regather in their homeland, but they would return full of unbelief in the Messiah but it wasn't for their sakes they would be regathered but to honor the promise given to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God keeps his promises. But, it's also prophesied that all the nations around Israel would gather to attack and nearly wipe out Israel. The remnant would escape to Petra, at least from what I gather but Israel will launch a nuclear attack that will destroy parts of Greece, Damascus and most of the invading armies. Israel will be be victorious and the survivors will be several years gathering up the bodies of the invaders. The bodies will be toxic somehow and teams will be sent out to gather the corpses. Travelers will be provided with flags to put near the bodies to alert the disposal teams. I even looked up the location where the bodies are prophesied to be disposed of. It's an actual place. Scary. But, the final prophesy says that God will begin first in the house of Jacob to remove those who do evil. I find this interesting because this is the exact opposite of Q. "We are saving Israel for last". Interesting.
Zionism? Right or wrong? I don't make such judgement calls on a simple word. People have liked to load the word with emotionalism. It's just a word. In simple terms it just means an effort for Jewish people to have their own homeland. There are 57 Islamic nations and only one Jewish nation. The world can't tolerate one Jewish nation?
let the scriptures lead us.
This is interesting as it would call for individual study of the scriptures.
Absolutely. If you are not doing your own study and learning how to understand scripture, you've accomplished no understanding of the topic and are not worthy to discuss it. This is what I find fault with main stream Christianity on. They are largely ignorant of scripture, context, Hebrew culture, refuse to understand that in translation some concepts are lost and other concepts are misunderstood. It's not easy but it's worth it for the individual to be more open minded and study, not to create a personal dogma but to gain better understanding.
Something I know not many Christians do, so they rely on the pastor/priest/preacher.
Exactly. Followers who lack understanding and the scriptures in New Testament address this problem. We are counseled to be like the Bereans who when they were told something, went to scriptures to see if it was so.
I'm curious how many Messianic jews undertake this?
I don't personally know anyone who doesn't at least do some study but I can't account for others. The people I spoke to seemed to understand references I made and were in agreement on my views. I don't recall any disagreement. Hmmm. Odd, I guess.
How does one ensure correct ideology/tenants/doctrine/whatever-you-wish-to-call-it is passed on over the ages?
That's not a problem. The scripture is there and open for all to read. No one gets to make a private interpretation as Christians do. If something is found, it's shared. Beliefs and or doctrines are not set in stone but rather explained in scriptures. There's no mental gymnastics to twist things to fit a view. Anyone doing this wouldn't find much support. The faith is too simple to make such things an issue. If I smoke, that's my business, my vice. If I drink to excess, so long as I'm not hurting others, it's my problem. No one gets to judge me or hassle me. This makes it much easier for a person to stop doing things that are personally damaging.
Tell me more, if you can about this. What law? How does it relate to love?
I just did a basic search for the number of times the law was linked to love. God really showed Israel with love so he gave them the law. The law to provide a framework for a society, protections from abuse and ways to resolve issues. People think of the Law as the Ten Commandments. There's like six hundred and some odd laws. Some are related to temple activities and many are related to societal norms. How to care for a lost animal and return to the owner. Property transfers, dietary laws. Christians like to ignore all these laws out of ignorance. However, many laws are the underpinnings of Common Law that are still used today. Shocker, right? If fruit from a tree overhangs a wall into public space, the owner of the tree is required to NOT harvest that fruit but to leave it to the public. Similar principles apply still today. If you find a lost cow, you would be required to care for it in a field next to a main road where the owner might recognize it and claim it. Then you can charge only a small amount for upkeep and must return the animal. There were laws related to marriage and inheritance as well as laws requiring sold land to be returned to original family after 50 years. Slaves or servants had to be freed after seven years, however, if a slave was abused and injured, he had to be freed with damages paid. If however a slave was happy with his master he could request to NOT be freed, receive a gold ring in his ear and make his servitude for life. Why would he choose to stay? Because he felt well cared for and secure. But it was the servants choice and had to be witnessed. So on and so forth. But, at the end of many lists of laws was the injunction to obey because God cares and loves the children of Israel.
I know you will get to this question so I answer it before you get there. Why did God choose Israel out of all nations? Why did he choose them for his own possession? His people? Because they were the best? Nope. Because they were so many and so strong? Nope. God repeatedly denied these were valid reasons and scolded his people repeatedly for their failures and misdeeds. So, why? Because of his promise to Abraham but it was a two pronged thing. They would get double blessings but double punishments if they erred. Notice, there were TWO diasporas and both were cruel and devastating and the reasons for those diasporas were explained. But, in spite of the punishments, God always held out hope that those who would listen, return to the blessings and relationship. Why? Because God proposed to give to the world the gift of salvation through Israel. It's in the scriptures. Jesus told the Israelite Pharisees that they search through scriptures for eternal life but always find reference to him, the Messiah. For this the pharisees hated Jesus and plotted to kill him. There's actually a parable Jesus told to dramatize this relationship.
It is common sense to some. Not so much for others, especially the cheating, lying, stealing. People will always find ways to rationalize. Animal instinct often wins over a call to adherence to virtue.
This is the fruit of a lying spirit. A haughty mind, (narcissism). The natural human mind is dishonest and seeks it's own benefit at all time. The law was given to us for a teacher, a primer to lead us to a greater understanding. It is written that God's intention is to write his law on our hearts so that rather than just following the law technically, we can follow the law in spirit.
From what you have shared, there is a great deal you and I have in common with what I’m studying independently as a non-denominational Christian and your beliefs as a Messianic Jew.
God really showed Israel with love so he gave them the law.
Ah, I see. You’re referring to the Deuteronomy laws? You are correct in that Christians tend to gloss over this. When you referred to "Law and Love", I was curious if there was a book (jn your tradition) that I hadn’t read.
I believe Christians don’t spend much time in Deuteronomy because it’s seen as religious history that is not necessarily tied to our particular genealogy, as we come from many different nations. But I can see how being born jewish, there may be a rooted connection to the laws.
The more I delve into studying scripture, however, the more I find myself looking at history to understand the context of what was happening politically. There is much to learn if you want to delve and gain a deeper spiritual understanding of what has happened and what may happen.
I know you will get to this question so I answer it before you get there.
Actually, no, I wasn't about to ask it. It's very clear in scripture that God keeps His promises. It is the Israelites who turned away from Him repeatedly only to return to Him when they were subjugated by foreign rule. The book of Judges details this pattern.
I was curious if Messianic jews differed from Torah jews WRT to how they view zionism. I had a very lengthy discussion with a Torah jew a while ago who deeply opposes the state of Israel. It was an interesting take. I was under the impression that all jews support the nation of Israel. But, like Christianity, there are many sects of Judaism AFA beliefs go.
My family was unhappy and eventually just refused to talk to me about it which left us in a spot where there was tension, silence and I just walked away from them.
I am sorry to hear this. Sometimes family are the most stiff-necked when it comes to religious beliefs. My stepfather is Roman Catholic (and I was raised in Catholic school). But my study of scripture has led me to reject much of the doctrine and theology that is taught. And yes, you are correct that a lot of pagan (what I refer to as Babylon) is hidden in it. Until one undertakes studying of the symbols of Babylonian and Canaanite deities, one can't know and discern how it subverts what scripture tells us. Like the Talmud, there is a lot of manmade doctrine that displaces an individual relationship with God with an intermediary (priests and nuns).
But as a Christian accepting Jesus as the Messiah, we acknowledge that there will be a death to our former selves. What you call vice, we call sin. They are one and the same. We believe that we are made anew (hence the term “reborn” or “born again”) and saved by his sacrifice of blood upon accepting his as our savior. In my own life, I have seen and felt both subtle as well as dramatic shifts when I have spent time in the word of God. It really is a beautiful spiritual shift and transformation that takes place.
It is written that God's intention is to write his law on our hearts so that rather than just following the law technically, we can follow the law in spirit.
Indeed. He wishes that we love and follow Him out of a sincere desire for relationship, rather than out of obligation.
Good stuff. Thanks again for your response and shedding insight.
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25068308? ago
Judaism with the distinct exception of most Ethiopian and Kararite Jews, follow the Babylonian Talmud which is the Oral Law of Lies of the Pharisees written down, They follow their own books that they themselves wrote, they also follow the evil Zohar and Kabalah which are Satanic Jewish Mysticism.
25071220? ago
I'm Messianic Jewish. Kabbalah and Talmud are both bad. Kabbalah is literally Satanic mysticism while Talmud is man's opinion presented as tradition. Most rabbis consider it above the scriptures.
25074112? ago
What is Messianic Jewish and its core tenants?
25084059? ago
Basically, no Kabbalah since that's Satanic tomfoolery. The Talmud is just man's opinion and is against the prophets, sets itself above the law and God and puts the traditions of man as having greater authority.
The Laws of Moses are mostly valid and should be followed as far as a person's training and ability. The handwritten curses which were against us are done away with and with the new covenant we now can have the right spirit which enables us to truly care for each other and have the spirit of the Messiah.
We are all equal in the eyes of God and no one can claim to be over us but the Messiah who bought and paid for us with his blood sacrifice. The Torah is relevant today and from it we get our inspiration and faith. We make peace with Christians and accept them even when we disagree with them on many points. Beyond that, there's not much of what the churches would consider core beliefs. LIke, if I smoke, no one can judge me. If I drink and it's not to excess, no one is my judge. If I use colorful language, no one is to judge me but I should be accurate in my language and respect other people's feelings and sensibilities. We don't have a pastor as such but some people consider themselves sort of Rabbi and I'm cool with that. It's not like a "rabbi" is the only one who can make aliyah (go forward and speak). I've been asked to but as I was only in study on one topic I begged off until I was ready. My topic was the Law and Love. I have another topic on the family of Yehoshuah and I'm about ready on that also. I've been asked to go forward and give the blessing for the children as they spoke neither Hebrew or Russian so they miss out on stuff and need English.
Curiously, the synagogue where I went didn't find me and convert me. I already had the same beliefs on my own and one day talking to my accountant discovered that we were of the same mind. What a surprise right? We can all study separately but come together and find we have no differences. Why? Because we had no coach or mentor and let the scriptures lead us. Churches have for centuries maintained a grip on the human mind as authority over scripture. That's totally wrong. The scriptures are their own authority and no man has a right to "interpret" things privately and then tell others what it means. Christians will pray and pray and then tell us God told them what it means. Oh? But he neglected to tell me also? How unfair is that?
Of course, there are things we can all agree on. The Ten Commandments for instance. At least until we get to the Sabbath I guess. But, cheating on your wife, stealing from others, lying, murder, these are common sense stuff we should all understand.
25164804? ago
I've had family in town and couldn't reply. Some questions I've been meaning to ask you:
What points do you disagree upon?
Do Messianic jews accept that he rose on the third day from the dead?
How large of a percentage of jews does Messianic jews comprise of the populace?
This is interesting as it would call for individual study of the scriptures. Something I know not many Christians do, so they rely on the pastor/priest/preacher. I'm curious how many Messianic jews undertake this? How does one ensure correct ideology/tenants/doctrine/whatever you wish to call it is passed on over the ages?
Tell me more, if you can about this. What law? How does it relate to love?
It is common sense to some. Not so much for others, especially the cheating, lying, stealing. People will always find ways to rationalize. Animal instinct often wins over a call to adherence to virtue.
25166634? ago
Well, first of all, The Talmud is the work of man. It should have no authority at all. Rabbinic Judaism holds an opposing view which places the Talmud opinions and traditions of man above scriptures. Obviously, this is wrong. The Messiah rebuked the Pharisees directly on this point. There's no nuance at all there.
Then, there is a subset of Jewish people who follow the Kabballah. This is even worse as it's Satanic mysticism. I've read some of the Talmud and believe me, the cherry picked stuff may be incendiary but most of it is just boring nitpicking navel gazing foolishness. Some of it is degrading.
But the Kabbalah , I don't know, I have no interest in that. Like playing with a seance. Dangerous fooling with the forces of evil.
I would say, vanishingly small here in the USA. Scattered synagogues here and there which mainstream Judaism is mostly unaware. Russian Jews who've accepted Christ were most of the synagogue I was involved with in Sacramento. Very nice people. We did have some visitors from South America. In Israel there is a much larger following which frightens mainstream Judaism and the Israeli government.
The rebirth of Israel as a nation is prophesied. It's all happening according to prophesy. I've done hours of study on this and came to my own understanding before I ever met a Messianic Jewish person or even knew the religion existed. When I first discovered the synagogue I was surprised to find people that believed just like I did. LOL. I thought my beliefs from my studies were mine alone. I came to my beliefs solely from my own study which was painful. I had to acknowledge that everything I had been taught was perverted doctrines. My family was unhappy and eventually just refused to talk to me about it which left us in a spot where there was tension, silence and I just walked away from them.
Anyway, back to your question. If you examine the scriptures carefully, it's prophesied that not only would the Nation of Israel be reconstituted from the diaspora and regather in their homeland, but they would return full of unbelief in the Messiah but it wasn't for their sakes they would be regathered but to honor the promise given to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God keeps his promises. But, it's also prophesied that all the nations around Israel would gather to attack and nearly wipe out Israel. The remnant would escape to Petra, at least from what I gather but Israel will launch a nuclear attack that will destroy parts of Greece, Damascus and most of the invading armies. Israel will be be victorious and the survivors will be several years gathering up the bodies of the invaders. The bodies will be toxic somehow and teams will be sent out to gather the corpses. Travelers will be provided with flags to put near the bodies to alert the disposal teams. I even looked up the location where the bodies are prophesied to be disposed of. It's an actual place. Scary. But, the final prophesy says that God will begin first in the house of Jacob to remove those who do evil. I find this interesting because this is the exact opposite of Q. "We are saving Israel for last". Interesting.
Zionism? Right or wrong? I don't make such judgement calls on a simple word. People have liked to load the word with emotionalism. It's just a word. In simple terms it just means an effort for Jewish people to have their own homeland. There are 57 Islamic nations and only one Jewish nation. The world can't tolerate one Jewish nation?
Absolutely. If you are not doing your own study and learning how to understand scripture, you've accomplished no understanding of the topic and are not worthy to discuss it. This is what I find fault with main stream Christianity on. They are largely ignorant of scripture, context, Hebrew culture, refuse to understand that in translation some concepts are lost and other concepts are misunderstood. It's not easy but it's worth it for the individual to be more open minded and study, not to create a personal dogma but to gain better understanding.
Exactly. Followers who lack understanding and the scriptures in New Testament address this problem. We are counseled to be like the Bereans who when they were told something, went to scriptures to see if it was so.
I don't personally know anyone who doesn't at least do some study but I can't account for others. The people I spoke to seemed to understand references I made and were in agreement on my views. I don't recall any disagreement. Hmmm. Odd, I guess.
That's not a problem. The scripture is there and open for all to read. No one gets to make a private interpretation as Christians do. If something is found, it's shared. Beliefs and or doctrines are not set in stone but rather explained in scriptures. There's no mental gymnastics to twist things to fit a view. Anyone doing this wouldn't find much support. The faith is too simple to make such things an issue. If I smoke, that's my business, my vice. If I drink to excess, so long as I'm not hurting others, it's my problem. No one gets to judge me or hassle me. This makes it much easier for a person to stop doing things that are personally damaging.
I just did a basic search for the number of times the law was linked to love. God really showed Israel with love so he gave them the law. The law to provide a framework for a society, protections from abuse and ways to resolve issues. People think of the Law as the Ten Commandments. There's like six hundred and some odd laws. Some are related to temple activities and many are related to societal norms. How to care for a lost animal and return to the owner. Property transfers, dietary laws. Christians like to ignore all these laws out of ignorance. However, many laws are the underpinnings of Common Law that are still used today. Shocker, right? If fruit from a tree overhangs a wall into public space, the owner of the tree is required to NOT harvest that fruit but to leave it to the public. Similar principles apply still today. If you find a lost cow, you would be required to care for it in a field next to a main road where the owner might recognize it and claim it. Then you can charge only a small amount for upkeep and must return the animal. There were laws related to marriage and inheritance as well as laws requiring sold land to be returned to original family after 50 years. Slaves or servants had to be freed after seven years, however, if a slave was abused and injured, he had to be freed with damages paid. If however a slave was happy with his master he could request to NOT be freed, receive a gold ring in his ear and make his servitude for life. Why would he choose to stay? Because he felt well cared for and secure. But it was the servants choice and had to be witnessed. So on and so forth. But, at the end of many lists of laws was the injunction to obey because God cares and loves the children of Israel.
I know you will get to this question so I answer it before you get there. Why did God choose Israel out of all nations? Why did he choose them for his own possession? His people? Because they were the best? Nope. Because they were so many and so strong? Nope. God repeatedly denied these were valid reasons and scolded his people repeatedly for their failures and misdeeds. So, why? Because of his promise to Abraham but it was a two pronged thing. They would get double blessings but double punishments if they erred. Notice, there were TWO diasporas and both were cruel and devastating and the reasons for those diasporas were explained. But, in spite of the punishments, God always held out hope that those who would listen, return to the blessings and relationship. Why? Because God proposed to give to the world the gift of salvation through Israel. It's in the scriptures. Jesus told the Israelite Pharisees that they search through scriptures for eternal life but always find reference to him, the Messiah. For this the pharisees hated Jesus and plotted to kill him. There's actually a parable Jesus told to dramatize this relationship.
This is the fruit of a lying spirit. A haughty mind, (narcissism). The natural human mind is dishonest and seeks it's own benefit at all time. The law was given to us for a teacher, a primer to lead us to a greater understanding. It is written that God's intention is to write his law on our hearts so that rather than just following the law technically, we can follow the law in spirit.
25168936? ago
From what you have shared, there is a great deal you and I have in common with what I’m studying independently as a non-denominational Christian and your beliefs as a Messianic Jew.
Ah, I see. You’re referring to the Deuteronomy laws? You are correct in that Christians tend to gloss over this. When you referred to "Law and Love", I was curious if there was a book (jn your tradition) that I hadn’t read.
I believe Christians don’t spend much time in Deuteronomy because it’s seen as religious history that is not necessarily tied to our particular genealogy, as we come from many different nations. But I can see how being born jewish, there may be a rooted connection to the laws.
The more I delve into studying scripture, however, the more I find myself looking at history to understand the context of what was happening politically. There is much to learn if you want to delve and gain a deeper spiritual understanding of what has happened and what may happen.
Actually, no, I wasn't about to ask it. It's very clear in scripture that God keeps His promises. It is the Israelites who turned away from Him repeatedly only to return to Him when they were subjugated by foreign rule. The book of Judges details this pattern.
I was curious if Messianic jews differed from Torah jews WRT to how they view zionism. I had a very lengthy discussion with a Torah jew a while ago who deeply opposes the state of Israel. It was an interesting take. I was under the impression that all jews support the nation of Israel. But, like Christianity, there are many sects of Judaism AFA beliefs go.
I am sorry to hear this. Sometimes family are the most stiff-necked when it comes to religious beliefs. My stepfather is Roman Catholic (and I was raised in Catholic school). But my study of scripture has led me to reject much of the doctrine and theology that is taught. And yes, you are correct that a lot of pagan (what I refer to as Babylon) is hidden in it. Until one undertakes studying of the symbols of Babylonian and Canaanite deities, one can't know and discern how it subverts what scripture tells us. Like the Talmud, there is a lot of manmade doctrine that displaces an individual relationship with God with an intermediary (priests and nuns).
But as a Christian accepting Jesus as the Messiah, we acknowledge that there will be a death to our former selves. What you call vice, we call sin. They are one and the same. We believe that we are made anew (hence the term “reborn” or “born again”) and saved by his sacrifice of blood upon accepting his as our savior. In my own life, I have seen and felt both subtle as well as dramatic shifts when I have spent time in the word of God. It really is a beautiful spiritual shift and transformation that takes place.
Indeed. He wishes that we love and follow Him out of a sincere desire for relationship, rather than out of obligation.
Good stuff. Thanks again for your response and shedding insight.
25539051? ago
Help me out with this retard please? https://voat.co/v/QRV/4013972/25534389